Secret from the public - of course. Secret from Congress and the courts - no, and not intended. One thing the executive branch has not done is to ask the court to rule on the authority. The courts can instruct the executive to bring the issue to them if they want to.

Nah, just beware lest clamor be taken for counsel. You’ll be fine.

It wasn’t as if the President authorized these activities covertly, without mentioning them to anyone else. While asserting his right to act unilaterally, he nevertheless saw to it that both members of Congress and the FISA court were briefed on the NSA program. That establishes accountability, does it not?

I certainly agree that the power being claimed by the President in this instance could be abused. But then the same is true of many other presidential powers about which there is no debate.

Rob was referring to the original attribution. After he pointed out my mistake, I changed it.

Pat:

My main concern is accountability. The accumulation of executiver power may be necessary to keep us safe - I don’t know. But taken in their totality, the threat to civil liberties as a result of Administration policies it seems to me comes not from design but from an excess of good intentions. Taken individually, no action taken by Bush is illegal or unconstitutional. Taken together, the empowerment of a largely unaccountable national security apparatus is troubling.

Got to stop reading Kos…everytime I go there I almost turn into a liberal

But I don’t buy the notion that we’re through this thing by any means. I suspect we’ve been lucky and good and that only takes you so far.

I damn near bent a brain bone re-reading this piece and can agree with nearly every one of your points. Trust, the most misplaced and feared philosophy, in every country and every government based on their factual histories. As naive as it seems, the practice of trusting now a fading art form, is what’s more than needed and impossible for most. Fear is not your friend and neither does it serve you in the end.

We have seen too few reasons to put faith in things out of our control, but we as citizens have a profound responsibility to our government and the thousands assigned to the multi-layered tasks of doing their best at providing our mutual safety and peace.

Collateral issues and people wronged has and will continue to be the sand in the jock as we run this race, but the fact that people are involved and the phenomenal size of this ongoing operation is why it’s not ever going to be perfect and sacrifices will be made. Having been on the receiving end of my own governments inability to discern the proper course of action on several occasions, dating back (early 70’s)to my first year in college, gives me a somewhat unique perspective.

Focus on the big picture and lets “Git er done!” and try to remember that the third rock from the sun is a place shared by all of us.

On the one hand you give the person of the president the benefit of the doubt, given “tradition” and precedent. On the other you believe “the administration” is overextending and posing a threat.

It’s interesting that you bring up Erasmus, Luther, and “Romanists.” For Luther believed faith alone, not the act, would save. I suspect most who would describe a confict between Luther and “Romanists” would take the side of faith saving a man rather than his deeds.

But the deeds you cite trouble you, as though you indeed hesitate to put faith in the man who is president. Or is it just his administration? Someone is responsible in the end for those deeds. Not the men in the ranks who make the claims for the president or who do the deeds for him. The President is responsible.

For me, trust us doesn’t cut it. The proof is not just in the faith here but in the deeds. And the deeds say our faith in the President are misplaced.

A

And no one has been able to establish that it caused them injury.

Should any alleged terrorists on trial seek it, they can determine if they were snared thru the program..and I doubt they were, as NSA turns over all such material to the FBI to pursue, and the FBI is bound to follow the law re wiretaps.

I put this in the same category as the secret torture prisons as to which no evidence has arisen.

Much of what we know of these programs is from disgruntled former employees with a bone to pick with the Administration’s foreign policy..and we have to assume that they are about as honest as their buddy Joe Wilson.