http://blogresponder.blogspot.com/2006/04/my-latest-letter-to-senator-harkin.html

You still reading comments on this thread? Here is some more empirical evidence that shoots your silly analysis out of the water.

From the WSJ poll today:

“By 61%-35%, Americans say illegal immigrants within the U.S. should be allowed to stay rather than be deported so long as they pay taxes and pass security checks. By 68%-28%, they express support for a potential Senate compromise that would allow for different treatment of those who have been in the U.S. at least five years, those here for two to five years, and those in the U.S. for less than two years.”

Nice try, but no,,,sadly I am not in the nanny-landscaper class, not by a long shot. Not that I would ever hire someone else to raise my kids, even if I could, but thats another issue….

Anyway, you ask a couple of “how long” questions. How long can we consider ourselves a nation of laws if…..

Well, we’ve been doing this (hiring illegals) for a long time now, so, the answer is “quite a bit longer than you think…”.

But I do appreciate your concern on some level. I dont think it is a good situation to have milllions of people outside the law. That is why I support regularizing them.

The problem is that the driving force in this country is the economy. And it has been, for a long time, a very vibrant, strong, growing economy. It demands labor. And the supply of labor has not been freely available to the economy, but rather regulated by politicians who write laws, establish quotas etc. with NO REGARD to the actual needs of the economy. Rather they simply respond to local political considerations. When something as amorphous as “the economy as a whole” demands X number of workers, but a congressman is running for election in a district where people are insecure about their jobs, what will the pol do? Restrict immigration, or fail to increase it to levels that the economy needs. For the pol, its a no brainer. Do that for a few decades and you have the present situation - “legal” levels of immigration that are totally our of whack with the needs of the economy. Market forces are powerful, and the labor market is no exception. People (workers and employers) will find ways around irrational limits.

Focusing your ire on the workers is not dealing with the issue. We need to align immigration policy with the needs of the economy. That means allowing those here now to stay - recognizing them under the law so that they can fully participate (including bargaining for better wages so they dont drag down everyone elses wages), and also demand of them the resoponsibilities we demand of all other citizens. And going forward, to have a mechanism in place to insure that future needs of the economy are met. Only then would enforcement work - you cant really expect to control a border if your own economy is pressuring people to cross in greater numbers than is allowed.

BD

Judging by your response, is it safe to assume that you’re one of the privileged few that enjoys some direct benefit from having 12 million illegal immigrants currently residing in the country? Perhaps you have a nanny for whom you don’t have to pay any federal taxes or a landscaper who doesn’t have to carry worker’s compensation insurance on his/her illegal immigrant employees…

In any case, there are two fundmental points regarding the rule of law that need to be addressed.

First, when we allow, and in some cases, encourage, foreigners to willfully break the law, how much longer do you think we’ll to be able to call ourselves a nation of laws?

Second, when we allow, and in some cases, encourage, AMERICANS to break the law by employing millions of illegal immigrants, how much longer do you think we’ll to be able to call ourselves a nation of laws?

Once we lose rule of law, think about what Bosnia looked like in 19956 and you’ll get some idea of what America will look like in another generation or so.

BTW, if my original observations were trite, yours were extremely myopic.

Anyway our economy needs the cheap illegal alien labor. Most of the people coming from Mexico are actually working jobs most Americans wouldn’t want to do. Not only that but they work for far less than an American would.

The ones who actually take American jobs that really matter are the one who come on wrong visas to the US. For instance, workers from India and China come “legally” on H-1 visas (correct me if I am wrong) to work as programmers. The catch is that the visa is designed to bring in workers that the US is lacking. There are programmers in the US. The only difference is that the ones from India and China are willing to work for about $10,000 less. I have no problem with this because I am a capitalist. However, I am troubled with the question. Am I an American or a capitalist first? I have learned that capitalism is better for American in the long run. It has helped us and real involvement by the government outside of a guide has been harmful.

However, these people that are helping our economy flourish is doing so illegally. We may have a hissy fit when we speed, but we still broke the law. These “undocumented” workers or falsely documented workers did break the law. There are 12 million of them here, and we can’t truly determine who have been here illegally for two years or more from someone who just crawled under the barbed wire fence. I honestly believe this is a no win situation. That is why the Democrats are sitting back and watch the Republican party implode. The question that should be asked is not what should be done. It should be who started the heated debate. I can assure it was not the Republicans. Considering that this is an election year. The only ones who can profit from this are the Democrats. I am not dismissing the issue. I am just asking why not last year or even in 2004? That might have worked better than John Kerry, his constant reminding us of his Vietnam experience, and his “C” average at Harvard.

Trite turns of phrases aren’t all that convincing in the end. There are 12 million illegals here, and most of them working. Unemployment is low, some say down near the levels that indicate effective full employment (just ask any republican). So where is the problem with the illegals? Who is going to do the work if they werent here? And please tell, what would be the effect on the economy of millions of workers being removed from the workforce in times of such low unempoyment?

Rick is really playing the unthinking yahoo here. The reason that the administration supports guest-worker programs is that they know, absolutely, that trying to remove these people is patently absurd. So its either find some way to bring them out of the shadows, or leave them underground.

I guess we’re all too busy blogging to actually do anything constructive about it. If members of Congress, the Senate and the President really thought this asinine amnesty program was going to hurt them politically, they’d drop it like a hot potato. But let’s face it, with Dhimmicrats licking their chops over all those potential votes and Republicans slapping each other on the back, knowing all that PAC money from industries that rely heavily on illegal labor will keep rolling in, there’s not one iota of incentive for them to act on our behalf.

BTW, anyone - whether American or not - who says illegal immigrants are only here doing the jobs Americans won’t do really needs to be bitch-slapped three ways to Sunday.

C’mon man, get off your kool-aid. This is absurd:
“Rassmussen is the most accurate polling group around”

You want I nice demonstration of their accuracy? Just go to one of your RW sites, RealClearPolitics, and look at the Prez approval charts, updated daily. You can see that for every single day, Rasmussen floats along, 5-6 points above (pro-Bush) EVERY other polling firm.

Not convinced yet? Check out immigration numbers for other polling firms.

“The impact on Republicans who don’t take an enforcement first position is much more pronounced because of the states where immigration is a hot issue”

Yeah, well thats not what you originally said. Here you make the argument that Repubs need to play to their base. Originally you tried to claim that they needed to appeal to the middle. Anti-immigration sentiments are clearly a GOP base issue period.

“When 40% of the electorate wants to send 11 million people home…”

Well, the reputable firms say 27%. But whatever. 27-40%, that your base.