I never thought in a million years I would see it.
In the telephone survey of 1200 individuals, just 47% agreed that “the 9/11 attacks were thoroughly investigated and that any speculation about US government involvement is nonsense.” Almost as many, 45%, indicated they were more likely to agree “that so many unanswered questions about 9/11 remain that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success.”
Un. Be, Lievable.
This is a direct, purposeful consequence of Bush Derangement Syndrome. Or let’s just call it what it really is: Hatred. Unreasoning, stupid, blind, insane hatred for George Bush and the people who support him.
It’s not difficult to see what happens when the fringe politics of hate goes mainstream. The conspiracy theories, the dark forces that people imagine are controlling their lives (so much easier to blame for life’s failures and disappointments), the Men in Black, the aliens, corporate plots, the Freemasons, and yes, The Davinci Code – these are no longer relegated to the the dark recesses of people’s minds. The beasts have been loosed and they now run amok, wreaking havoc wherever there’s an internet connection and a chat room.
Egged on by supposedly mainstream liberal websites like Daily Kos, Democratic Underground, and other blogs associated with the left, the dark hints and barely concealed innuendo that He knew…He knew…He wanted it to happen… have found an eager audience in the population at large. There are several reasons for this, not the least of which is a de-emphasis during the last 25 years in secondary education of subjects that develop critical thinking skills. And Jeff Goldstein could explain better than I the consequences of the battles between intentionalists and their enemies, the post modernists. But more than anything, it is a loss of faith.
The politics of hate has enabled the worst in us to get the better of us. Believing your political opponent capable of such monstrous evil that presupposes thousands of dead Americans bespeaks a sickness in thought and reason for which there is no cure. Not even giving them what they desire more than anything – power – will assuage the psychic pain that causes them to descend into such fits of paranoia and fantasy. If given the opportunity, they would see enemies behind every tree and plotters under every bed.
The politics of paranoia afflicts both right and left for sure. But it has been fully mainstreamed by liberals, wrapped up and sold in slick, well written brochures and talked up in the leftist salons of both Hollywood and New York. Celebrities casually mention their belief in cockamamie theories and are inserted into the 24 hour news cycle so that their inane, idiotic comments are repeated ad nauseum every news update on the half hour. Every time a member of the Glitz and Glitter crowd whose intellectual achievements may include being able to count the number of times they grab their crotch while performing on stage, mouth some ridiculous anti-Bush sentiment, an army of worshipful reporters and cynical paparazzi report and repeat their incoherent ramblings as “news.”
And ordinary people who don’t have the time nor inclination to read the 9/11 Commission report or Popular Mechanics or the dozens and dozens of scientific, peer reviewed articles in the most respected professional journals in the world that fully, completely, and totally debunk most conspiracy theories surrounding the attacks find it easier and more exciting to believe in make believe rather than the cold, hard truth.
After all, believing in conspiracy theories is fun! You’re “in the know.” You know something that others don’t. It makes you feel important. And it gives you a feeling of belonging – belonging to a group of people more noble, more important, than the rest of us simple, drab, hum drum humans.
Except this sort of thing isn’t supposed to happen in educated, western populations. Daniel Pipes did a scholarly study of the history of conspiracy and found that the idea had been declining in western countries over the last 50 years until recently. A resurgence occurred with the Clinton hating of the far right a decade ago as one conspiracy theory after another was advanced against the President, none of which achieved anything close to mainstream acceptance by conservatives.
But when you have a Congressman of the United States – Cynthia McKinney – accusing the President of the United States of having advance knowledge of the attacks on 9/11, you’re not going to get much more mainstream than that.
What enables all of this is hatred of the President. And what is truly frightening is that there are those who don’t hate the President as much as they hate the United States of America and are using the hatred of the conspiracists to advance their agenda.
It might be interesting for some enterprising blogger or reporter to look into the funding for this group, 9/11 Truth.Org. The Zogby poll referenced above was commissioned by this group in conjunction with a conspiracy spectacular they are putting on in Chicago in early June. What is enormously worrying about this “movement” is that the facts don’t matter one iota. You can talk until your blue in the face about the study done by the American Society of Civil Engineers about why the World Trade Center towers fell and it simply goes in one ear and out the other. They will insist, despite the fact that there is not one piece of evidence to support it, that the towers were brought down by a demolition crew.
And with this kind of fevered, religious belief at work, someone could very easily turn such a movement into a crusade. Such shows of emotionalism are not healthy for supposedly rational societies and the leaders they throw up are not usually candidates for the Democracy Hall of Fame.
If this irrational hatred has led us to this point, what will it be like 2 years from now? And if the left were to win back power, would we on the right descend to that level of rage and stupidity? Is it ever going to be possible to find our way back to sanity in our politics and political discourse?
Perhaps part of the answer is at the conspiracists “education and strategy session” coming up in a couple of weeks. I plan on attending this conference and report on what I find there. Stay tuned.
3:11 pm
Nah, there’s a high level of general idiocy. Look at poll support for astrology and creationism.
This 9/11 conspiracy crap may be abetted by BDS, but it’s part of a broader ignorance and willingness to believe weird stuff, that cuts across party lines.
3:51 pm
It’s the Left’s version of religious zealotry and bible-thumping. Dean espouses it. Cynthia McKinney is a true believer. Just look at the preaching on any left-wing nut site anytime new 9-11 facts or photos are made public.
5:19 pm
Rick, I do think it’s a bit incongruous to complain about the American people being particularly susceptible to conspiracy theories and then laud the show 24. You must admit that the bread and butter of the show is continuous and nefarious plotting in the very centers of government. Previous seasons have included the military, secretary of defense, and even this year the President and a shadowy cabal of what – big oil proponents?
Popular culture reinforces the idea of vast conspiracies as much as anything else, even your beloved 24.
6:31 pm
I’m a Bush supporter but i truly believe that someone knew a big attack was coming but it was deeply buried long before Jan. 2001 when Bush arrived in D.C. It’s hard to ignore the fact that the Able Danger project was buried and that Hillary’s pet monkey ‘Gorlick’ rewrote the rules and prevented any information from being shared. Someone directed her to rewrite the intel. rules, she proved during the 9-11 hearings that she’s not the sharpest pencil in the holder. I can see Hillary behind the burial of the Able Danger project and the rewrite of the intel rules. Slick is also not smart enough to do that much cover up. Hell he got caught getting his knob polished in the Oval office and diddling a woman with a cigar. That folks isn’t smart unless you spell it stupid. If there was a fair indept investigation it would all fall on the Slick Willie administration, so let the investigation begin. We’ve waited too long after the farce of a 9-11 investigation. It will be considerably harder to uncover the truth now, we know Socks Berger removed and destroyed some vital information, how much more has been destroyed by the Slick/Weasel holdovers in the CIA/FBI/NSA, we know there are several outright traitors left in all the agencies and they’re not above destroying anything that implicates their god.
8:14 pm
And I see Scrapiron joins in with the right-wing moonbat theories.
8:40 pm
Rick, what do you think they’ll do with all of the hatred that’s kept them going since ‘01? It’s hard to believe they’ll simply celebrate and laud their victory over opponents in the event they regain control of the federal government this fall. My guess is there’s a “re-education” camp somewhere in the UP with our names written all over it…whoa, I almost sounded like one of them for a moment, didn’t I?
10:24 pm
Part of being a conservative is bellievning in the individual over the bureacracy. The liberal believes in governement over the individual. The indivual can not be trusted so we need social security, massive police forces, and social programs for anything a lib can dream up.
The author of this article stands those ideas on there head. Here the individuals are idiots, unable to realize the government is being victimized. Folks like you, pandering to the elephant, are wrecking the Republican party. Nice work. You are doing the Democrats work for them.
10:56 pm
You see and are sickened by films and interviews of people like Jessie MacBeth, who claimed he was a “Special Forces Ranger” and was ordered to kill innocent Iraqi civilians in their homes and in mosques while they were at prayer. But what was even more shocking was the comments that were received on these sites even after he was “outed” as probably not even serving in the military at all. Commentors not only believed his story but actually wanted his story to be true! They wanted to believe the worst or our military and those who led them. I was not so much shocked at this Ranger-Wannabe as I was at the hordes of “Amerika” haters that climbed out of the woodwork to endorse these so-called war crimes.
11:10 pm
45% of Americans Doubt 9/11
Americans love conspiracy theories:In the telephone survey of 1200 individuals, just 47% agreed …
11:12 pm
“...45%, indicated they were more likely to agree “that so many unanswered questions about 9/11 remain that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success.â€
You think that’s bad? 65% of the population thought Saddam Hussein was involved with 9/11 when we went to war with Iraq! Where did they get that idea? Who funded it?
11:37 pm
Most fascinating will be the withdrawal symptoms that will occur when Bush leaves office in 2+ years.
I expect a Republican surge in 2010, while the Democrats will still be clueless and without a “Bush” to meaningfully hate.
11:40 pm
I also have wondered about the irrational hatred, disrespect and contempt directed towards the President. Even before he was elected the first time, he was portrayed in the cartoons as a monkey. A chimp. Something sub-human. It’s almost supernatural the way some folks literally hate Bush. I stumbled onto the Democratic Underground website once, and the pornographic and vile hatred exposed there shocked and scared me. Are those people my neighbors? Are they the younger generation? What madness caused a respected news anchor try to destroy Bush with fake documents? Is this kind of irrational hatred the result of removing God from the public schools? Is Satan influencing these people? Has God hardened their hearts? As a Bible believing Christian, both of those last two questions are plausible to me. Others may find THAT irrational. I just know that most of the same folks that hate Bush, lift up and praise Castro, and Che Guevera and Ward Churchill etc etc etc. Right is wrong, up is down, and good and bad have been confused somehow. Something is going on.
11:41 pm
As for the poll ..
I so sick of polls now that I intend to lie to each and every pollsters telling them the worst till it becomes obvious that polls have been rendered useless.
11:51 pm
Swatting Flies; the Missing Piece
The well-documented fact that President Bush ignored warnings of terror attacks in the US early in his presidency, beginning with President Clinton telling him that Al Qaeda terrorists would be his number one problem is puzzling. How could this “war president,†protector of freedom, keeper of America’s security, been so negligent? Condoleeza Rice attempted to provide the answer to the puzzle. During her testimony to the 911 commission, she explained that the president wanted a broader plan to deal with terrorism and that he was “tired of swatting at flies.†(In spite of the fact that he had never swatted at anything.)
The rationale was, unfortunately, that while the president was developing his broader plan for dealing with terrorism and before it could completed the 911 attack occurred. There is no evidence, however, that any broader plan was being developed. It is understandable that the White House would want to explain away the lapse in security that led to 911 and show they really were on top of the terrorism issue. The explanation does not stand the test of logic and the puzzle remains unanswered. What really makes this puzzle intriguing is the idea that, while one could see how the President was just incompetent and did not have his eye on the ball, it was unfathomable how his entire staff would let this oversight stand.
Accepting Ms. Rice’s testimony that the president said, “he was tired of swatting at flies,†as a truthful statement, most Americans would dismiss this as just one of the goofy things the President says that doesn’t make sense. Or, as we have become accustom to do, we would get out our “W†decoder ring that compensates for the Presidents actual words and translates them into his intended meaning. We decipher that he must be referring to Clinton’s occasional ineffective Cruise Missile. Even though the President’s meaning is understood the puzzle remains.
Looking at some of the other pieces of the puzzle may give us a clue to the answer. Character assassinated Secretary of Treasury Paul O’Neil tells us that from day one the Bush Administration was planning for post war Iraq. Despite the fact that he is a disgruntle, crazy, old man, for conversation sake let’s say what he said was true. In that case, the administration would have had to decide before they took office that they were going to go after Iraq as the way to deal with terrorism. Buying into Wolfowitz’s utopian plan for spreading democracy in the Middle East as the answer to the problem of Islamic terrorist activity and would constitute a “broader plan.†Not to mention the plan would also provided intellectual cover for less noble motives such as oil, or rectifying a father’s shortcomings.
Without making any judgment on the neocon world vision, let’s lay that piece on the table. Now the question of what to do about the nasty flies buzzing around the heads of the incoming administration in the form of relatively minor terrorist attacks against US targets, i.e. the USS Cole, Nairobi Embassy, etc. now needs to be dealt with.
Faced with reality that it is nearly impossible to protect all U.S. targets and/or assets around the world, the Bush plan was to sit and wait for the next nuisance terrorist attack, which in turn would become the impetus to put their plan into action.
I don’t think they ever dreamed the next terrorist attack would be so devastating that it would bring the country to it’s knees. It’s just another example of what incompetence gets you.
The rest of the puzzle pieces fall into place from here.
12:27 am
if you are smart enough to know of the 26 redacted pages in the congressional investigation of 9/11 then you would obviously know there is at least some level of coverup – somehow related to our relationship to saudi arabia..
to think there isn’t a coverup is blind ignorance, and to think it is ok in any way shape or form to cover up anything related to 9/11 is a dishonor to those that died – you know the ones who were used to justify the war in iraq?
bah. wake up people, seriously.
1:08 am
Rick…...
The Presidents record low poll numbers, and the increasing discontent heard everywhere, is a result of the thousands of mainstream newspapers, local and national newscasts, liberal hollywood types and Sunday talk shows all building into an anti-Bush crescendo that is deafening. I work next to a customer service department, where the liberal employees make anti-Bush remarks to customers on every other phone call. I passed an employee yesterday who had an anti-Bush screen-saver that featured injury to the President. I was at a department of motor vehicle office two weeks ago that had three separate anti-Bush voter registration and petition people working the people waiting in line outside. The liberal machine is working in large numbers, using every means at their disposal, to build an enormous anti-Bush, anti-Republican wave going into fall of this year and ‘08. You will never see any of the good the President has done mentioned anywhere on TV or in your newspaper, despite taking poor people off the tax roll, reducing taxes on the middle-class and keeping most of the campaign promises he made. Of course, as they ratchet up the absurd and urban myth, that the President will now come under suspicion for 9/11 also. He is being blamed for everything else.
2:43 am
Education, a educated society would be a better place. Don’t make me laugh. We are a ship of fools.
5:33 am
Let’s add to the list Vince Foster’s ‘murder’, a theory roundly espoused by the drug=addled Mr. Limbaugh. And toss in 80% of Gallup-polled Arabs from 6 ME countries a few years back, who believed that Jewish pilots flew the planes into the WTC. And the preponderance of blacks and gays who believe that AIDS was created by the federal government to target specific groups. And folks who think OJ was framed by the LAPD (the evidence pointed to OJ- aha- proof positive it was a frame!) It’s the politics of ignorance and bias. And it lies in more places than I care to notice.
7:13 am
BDS=Hatred!
Right Wing Nut House.
What enables all of this is hatred of the President. And what is truly frightening is that there are those who don’t hate the President as much as they hate the United States of America and are using the hatred of the conspiraci…
8:44 am
This to me is the main point. When a president breaks trust with his people by being less than forthright about the truth(WMD, prescription drug costs, ), then everything that has happened becomes suspect. So people are now weilding tin foil hats about 9/11? Color me unsurprised.
8:45 am
Bah – I can’t get that block quote to work right. I may scrap using it.
10:01 am
Rick,
I do think you protest too much. We have also seen polls that show some very large number of Americans beleived that Saddam was behind 9/11, and that was shamelessly exploited and perpetuated by your boys.
And of course, BDS is only the mirror image of what your side invented in the 90’s, and most assuredly will continue in the coming Dem. administration.
Your style of rhetorical overkill and misrepresentation does not make you very convincing. Everyone knows that Kos is not “mainstream”, and – BTW, I have never seen anything there that pushes the 9/11 conspiracy theories. And DU? Who the hell even reads DU? Its a left-wing nut house, as irrelevant as any such institution on the far right.
“And if the left were to win back power, would we on the right descend to that level of rage and stupidity?”
Descend? My poor boy, do you not read any right-wing blogs? Are you not on Regnery’s mailing list? Does your radio not have an AM dial? Do you not ever step back and read some of the nonsense on your own blog?
“Is it ever going to be possible to find our way back to sanity in our politics and political discourse?”
Well now, Rick. Here is a brilliant idea! Why dont YOU abandon your mission to feed the nutjobs and take this up as a personal mission? There is no use complaining about the state of political discourse unless you are willing to do your part to improve it.
10:27 am
I’m going to point out the big white elephant in the room:
Basically, most people are dumb and ignorant. Even if they had the critical thinking skills, their preconceived notions and biases prevent them from using them effectively.
And Rick, the right-wing moonbattery on Clinton certainly did make it into the mainstream and even the so-called “liberal” press.
11:02 am
Everyone seems to dis-regard the fact that President Bush had been in Washington D.C. for what? Less than Eight (8) months, but he was supposed to uncover all the lies/mistakes/failures of the previous Eight (8) years and if i remember correctly a lot of the same people that failed for Eight (8) years were still in charge. For one the new FBI director was not approved by the congress and allowed to take office until What? 09/10/01, but what the h*** he had 24 hours to identify and locate the attackers. The Elite left wing college educated have only proven that they are the biggest fools in the world, and they continue to reenforce the fact they are fools with every word they publish in the antique MSM and on the blogs. Funny that just yesterday the AP (totally anti-american news service) left out the most important part of Osama’s latest rant that there are two of the 9-11 planners/participants in U.S. custody. Gitmo anyone? Don’t close Gitmo, we’ll soon need it and several more to lock up the left wing traitors, including a dozen or so members of congress. I forgot, the members of congress have declared themselves “above the law”.
11:54 am
Oohhh, a poll said something stupid, so the left is at fault. Here’s a poll of over 1,200 people http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/15/ufo.poll/.
Sixty percent polled believed that aliens have contacted people on Earth and 50% believed aliens have abducted humans.
Wow, the right wingers have lied to Americans so much that believe in aliens! And they hate liberals! Liberal Derangement Syndrome (liberalism is a mental disorder,i.e., Michael Savage) is poisoning the minds of America! (This silliness makes as much sense as the blather above.)
Accusation of Bush hatred is just another tactic of the right to divert attention from the massive failures of our Conservative president. And don’t tell me he’s not a “real conservative.” You bought him, you paid for him, he’s yours.
12:00 pm
Its funny that Bush and Cheney are always potrayed as idiots. Yet, at the same time as evil. The only conclusion that I can come up with is that they believe that they are Dick Dastardly (Cheney) and Muttley (Bush). If anyone here is over 25, then they remember the cartoon “Stop the Pigeon”. Many on the left while regarding these two as cartoonish imbeciles believe they are some behind major conspiracy theories. What can be implied is that the most brilliant of progressive minds were outwitted by a pair of idiots who could not hunt down a fat,little bird.
http://www.hotink.com/wacky/dastrdly/
12:01 pm
Because sometimes it's nice to post a reminder
For the anti-war crowd: Deroy Murdock, "Saddam Hussein's Philanthropy of Terror." (h/t Tman in Tennessee, who likewise reminds us of one of baseball's greatest moments). Anyway, I bring this up now because, having read Rick Mora…
12:01 pm
I don’t think it’s a left/right issue. I just think we’re in a moment in time where the public is more susceptible to over the top conspiracy theories in general. In a way, it is a sort of retreat into fantasy. A good example is the mind-boggling success of The Davinci Code. How could a trashy potboiler beach book, adapted into a goofy suspense thriller with a bad script and mediocre performances, generate such interest? It’s just the public zeitgist.
Notice also that a lot of movies released presently are, for the most part, comic-book based movies. Again, a sign of a public retreat into make-believe. Sometimes fantasy is more comforting than to believe that the world may just be chaotic.
12:05 pm
Scrapiron,
The point is that for the 8 months they were in office before 911 they did nothing on the terrorism from, zip, nada, zero. As a matter of fact in the 911 commission testimony the acting director of the FBI said that Ashcroft told him that he ‘did not want to hear about terrorism anymore.’
12:13 pm
ed,
Two words: Manbear Pig.
I think both parties can be accused of standing on a soap box and pontificating. Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a nation that is on cruise control. Even though Republicans and Democrats say and do many stupid things; the damage is negligible. That is even if both parties scream the sky is falling when the other is in power.
12:15 pm
Heartless
Osama Bin Laden could have stepped up. He could have given his testimony at trial. He could have saved his underling from undeserved hatred and punishment. In short, he could have done the right thing. But no. Instead, he lets
12:23 pm
Vince Foster’s ‘murder’, a theory roundly espoused by the drug=addled Mr. Limbaugh.
Wrong. The quote typically cited as Limbaugh “espousing” that theory is in fact an out-of-context example of what’s known as “irony”. Limbaugh regularly makes fun of conspiracy theorists, and has since the very beginning of his radio career. He’s even devoted entire days to making fun of them—during the Clinton administration.
Your claim is another example of the idiocy people believe because it makes them comfortable.
12:23 pm
We have also seen polls that show some very large number of Americans beleived that Saddam was behind 9/11, and that was shamelessly exploited and perpetuated by your boys.
What an absolute steaming pile. Please refer to me to ONE INSTANCE of President Bush, or one of his staff/underlings/etc., EVER saying that Hussein had anything to do with 9-11.
I’ll wait.
TV (Harry)
12:36 pm
No one in the Bush administration ever said there was a direct connection (except for some speculation immediately after 9/11), but they didn’t go out of their way to quash that misperception either.
12:41 pm
but they didn’t go out of their way to quash that misperception either.
Excuse me? That’s your answer? He didn’t go on TV and say “Hussein didn’t have anything to do with 9-11”, so that means he meant that Hussein DID have something to do with 9-11?
Holy cripes. It was your comrades on the left who started this rumour (lie) in the first place. How is it President Bush’s responsibility to quash it?
Jebus. How can you even argue with this kind of thinking?
TV (Harry)
1:06 pm
TV(Harry):
That is part of the MO of the Left. Create a lie, a baldfaced untruth. Publish it, let it make the rounds, let it be repeated over and over again in sympathetic circles. If a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes accepted as the truth. Then when confronted with the lie, the justification is it becomes true when Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, etc. did not personally contradict it.
So, Andy – when did you stop beating your wife? And if you do not repudiate that statement – does that make it true?
1:53 pm
Look at what has been written on just this thread. All anti-American, anti-military, anti-religion, anti-government, all UN/international power grabbers and Democrats came together.
Isn’t it sweet that they could have a lovefest, hang a sign around their necks and say “Sorry World, we produced George W Bush.”
He did it.
It had a nice catchy ring and the MSM was the delivery van. They made their daily routes and spread the gospel…”You got a problem? Sorry, he did it. We think he looks like Hitler, too”.
MSM needs to be hung by their thumbs and swing in the wind.
Then we have the ignorant, uninformed, uninterested public. They looked at Bush and said those people crazy and we don’t believe all that crap in the MSM. Five years later the MSM van continues to make it’s route and the people say “You know, it must be so. Look they can name mistake after mistake after mistake that this man made”.
Never in the history of the universe has one man been under this much scrutiny. And this is the best they can come up with?
BDS is real. Otherwise, how do you explain certain people in the Republican Party actions and words about President Bush? It does not matter if it fails the truth test. “He Lied”.
It does not matter that immigration is one issue and that all other issues were not decided by just one man. I SEE BDS in places that I would never have believed 5 years ago.
I say anyone that can spout some of that stuff after reading The Anchoress masterpiece, is…well…insane. BDS got them.
1:57 pm
“He didn’t go on TV and say “Hussein didn’t have anything to do with 9-11â€, so that means he meant that Hussein DID have something to do with 9-11?”
Actually Bush deny that very thing. It happened during a photo op of a cabinet meeting. Some reporter shouted a question like, “Did Saddam (or Iraq) have anything to do with 911? Bush answered in the din of camera shutters, “No.” It lasted a couple of news cycles. So we know he knew Iraq had nothing to do with 911.
While I’m sure we won’t be able to find Bush saying Iraq was involved directly in 911, there are plenty of examples of him saying ‘911 and Saddam’ in the same sentence, as if there were some connection.
Cheney was blatant about making the connection saying, “It has been pretty well established” that there was a meeting between 911 terrorists and Iraq. Just recently he was caught on the record lying about the first lie, denying that he ever said.
You can’t argue if you are devoid of facts.
2:23 pm
Sorry DeWayne, I’m not letting you get away with this:
While I’m sure we won’t be able to find Bush saying Iraq was involved directly in 911, there are plenty of examples of him saying ‘911 and Saddam’ in the same sentence, as if there were some connection.
Because rubes like you and me believe it, right? No? Then what was the point of even bringing this up? Bush went after Saddam because of 9-11. 9-11 was the reason the Iraq war happened. Neither of these statements means Saddam caused 9-11. If the media spun it this way, then they’re at fault. NOT President Bush.
Cheney was blatant about making the connection saying, “It has been pretty well established†that there was a meeting between 911 terrorists and Iraq. Just recently he was caught on the record lying about the first lie, denying that he ever said.
Sorry, this doesn’t hold either. It WAS pretty well established, as was rehashed on this board, and just about every other blog out there. Once again, it doesn’t mean Saddam caused 9-11.
This whole argument smacks of typical liberal elitism. You think because the phrases “Saddam”, and “9-11” are in the same statement, that we need smart guys like you to tell us the proper context. If you don’t believe it, what makes you think everyone else does believe it? Right, because you’re smarter.
You can’t argue if you are devoid of facts.
And this sentence takes the cake as a textbook example of projection.
Please, send in the next bunch. I’m getting bored.
TV (Harry)
3:59 pm
Crawford (32): I listened to Rush’s Vince Foster proclamations myself, dude, over a several week period. I’ve listened to Rush for years, understanding his penchant for tongue-in-cheek irony, humor and wit. He wasn’t kidding. He was antagonizing, proferring that there were many unanswered and mysterious questions surrounded Vince Foster’s death, even suggesting murder at the hands of the Clintons.
Do I think Rush really believed that Foster was murdered? I don’t know. But it startles me that you can proclaim Rush’s innocense and my idiocy based upon a single statement. You obviously have a psychic reach far beyond those of mere mortals. I also listened to Rush say, “name me one thing that Bill Clinton did that was good. You can’t.” (Presumably he forgot about NAFTA.) The ever objective Rush at it again- 24/7 Clinton Derangement Syndrome.
4:00 pm
and that was intended as “innocence”. Sorry about the typo.
5:14 pm
When the people retreats into a fantasy world, the days of democracy are numbered.
5:28 pm
[...] Rick Moran and Jeff Goldstein can’t believe that 45% of Americans suspect a 9/11 cover-up. I can — but then, I’m a New Yorker. Thomas Lifson and Screw Loose Change question the poll’s methodology, but they’re worried nonetheless. So am I, although in all candor, when I look at the actual numbers, it’s not the fact that most Democrats believe in a cover-up that worries me. I’ve been working off that assumption for years. It’s the fact that only 70% of Republicans are satisfied with the 9/11 investigations to date that’s got me worried. I think the Commissar’s comment on Moran’s post explains most of it, but surely it’s just a matter of time until Sullivan claims that wayward 30% as having been driven over the edge into cloudcuckooland by Bush’s incompetence. Call it … Ray McGovern redux. [...]
5:35 pm
The point is that 65% of Americans believed Saddam had something to do with 9-11 back in 2003. Which ties in with Rick’s original post:
“...45%, indicated they were more likely to agree “that so many unanswered questions about 9/11 remain that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success.â€
= BDS
No one said it point blank and certainly not liberals. If anything the majority of those 35% that answered no to the poll question were mostly liberals.
I’m saying the administration fostered the notion in order to garner support for the war they wanted.
Your making a fine distinction that obvilously most Americans were not sharp enough to make. We’re talking about public opinion here not reality.
5:36 pm
Jeeze, you guys need to chill out. I was a supporter of the war then, and I still am for the most part. Yes, the administration didn’t go out of their way to quash the misrepresentation. That’s not particularly surprising or shocking or anything else – no administration goes out of its way to quash untruths that support its policies. That’s politics. Pointing that out doesn’t make me left-wing, it makes me accurate.
And to the commenters here to harrangue the left for “publishing untruth,” you must have forgotten the Clinton years. The fact is both sides do it. Both sides are like little kids who point fingers at eachother and whine, “well they did it.” “No, they did it first.”
However, I’ll agree that the left over the past 5 years has reached new lows in this regard, but to say the right is innocent is stupid. The right acts as if it has never supported a whacky conspiracy theory or assumed the worst of their political opponents without examining the facts.
Yes, some of the stuff the Bush administration put out before the war had questionable accuracy and some of the parallels they drew were stretches, and there are a few cases where it could be legitimately argued that they overemphasized certain pieces of intelligence. It’s not anywhere near the level the left claims though, and Bush didn’t lie. The lefty moonbats need to review their semantics and the difference in intent between lying and being incorrect.
5:55 pm
rick, the question was worded ambigupouslyt. that’s why the result is the way it is. this ambiguity was done on purpose.
for example, some people might have agreed that a us official might be complicit – like a mole or spy for the saudis or pakis. like tenet or pilar or wilson or berger or plame… iow NOT that it was a bush crime family plot,. but that the enemy had a mole or moles at the cia or nsa or fbi.
therefore not all the 45% are leftie moonbat/ some just feel that too may l;eads and dots were ignored.
6:02 pm
Conspiracy theories aside, it’s so frustrating how some generalize that all people that think the gov’t isn’t telling the “Whole truth” about 9/11 must be tin-hat wearing fanatics, or anti-war unhinged liberals, ERRR Wrong. Theres just some things that don’t add up.
For instance, someone give me a logical explanation for this little tidbit: Why were fighters not scrambled from Andrews Air Force Base after the first plane hit the WTC? Think about this; those personnel at that base were likely watching the news just like all the rest of us were. Yet nobody thought to maybe get in some planes to protect the nation’s capital?
Thats the purpose of Andrews Air Force Base! But no, of course, they had no reason to suspect that anyone would attack our capitol, the media (which we we’re all watching) was reporting that there were at least 4 more possible hijacked planes in the air.
The US has the most sophisticated military in the world, yet we couldn’t stop a passenger plane from slamming into the pentagon 85 minutes after the first plane hit the WTC?
Give me a break and address the issue instead of attacking the tin-hat wearing straw man.
6:19 pm
“there are plenty of examples of him saying ‘911 and Saddam’ in the same sentence, as if there were some connection”
The bastard. But not half as bad as when he used the words ‘tax’, ‘poor’, ‘cut’ and ‘wealthy’ in the same sentence. Who can doubt he favors cutting up the poor in little pieces so the wealthy can have tax cuts or something. He’s like encouraging axe murders or something.
6:35 pm
“The US has the most sophisticated military in the world, yet we couldn’t stop a passenger plane from slamming into the pentagon 85 minutes after the first plane hit the WTC?”
Did you see United 93? The answers are there, as well as in the actions of the Clinton administration in response to various terrorist attacks in the 90s. There was no national consensus that we had a homeland terrorism problem – it was a foreign terrorism problem. The country was asleep. The air traffic controllers were asleep. The military was asleep. It’s really pretty simple – as Fukuyama said post the Cold War, paraphrasing, history is over. We instintively knew it too. We were wrong.
9:32 pm
“The country was asleep.”
Yet jets were scrambled over 80 times in the 9 months prior to sep. 11th. All for things such as deviated flight paths, failure to respond to air traffic controllers, stuff like that… Somehow, I don’t buy that argument. Not saying it’s not true, but I will need some more convincing to believe it.
One more thing, this has nothing to do with hate politics. There are plenty of level-headed skeptics that want to be convinced that the offical story is true, like myself. (I like Bush and I think his presidency will be appreciated in time.)
Again, I have to make this point: Everyone at Andrews HAD to be watching what was happening, the whole country was watching. They weren’t sleeping. Or did nobody show up to work that day?
And another thing, articles such as these like to bring up links to refute conspiracy theories such as the PM “9/11 myth debunking” article as proof. However, Rick, as do others, ignore the fact that that PM article was refuted by the 9/11 cover-up community and don’t bother to address their claims that much of that PM article is hogwash. (They provide logical counter-claims and point out relevant information missing in the article)
9:57 pm
For instance, someone give me a logical explanation for this little tidbit: Why were fighters not scrambled from Andrews Air Force Base after the first plane hit the WTC? Think about this; those personnel at that base were likely watching the news just like all the rest of us were. Yet nobody thought to maybe get in some planes to protect the nation’s capital?
The simple reason is that the fighters weren’t on alert. Unlike the movies, it takes time and planning to get a fighter to a state of readiness to launch. It takes time to arm and fuel a plane. It’s not like most Air Force bases had armed and fueled fighters with pilots on alert ready to go. With the end of the cold war, we simply didn’t stand many alerts. I forget the exact number, but there were only a handful of aircraft on alert to cover the entire country that day. I can tell you that things have changed in that regard.
10:12 pm
And another thing, articles such as these like to bring up links to refute conspiracy theories such as the PM “9/11 myth debunking†article as proof. However, Rick, as do others, ignore the fact that that PM article was refuted by the 9/11 cover-up community and don’t bother to address their claims that much of that PM article is hogwash. (They provide logical counter-claims and point out relevant information missing in the article)
Please don’t tell me you’re one of those loonies that think the towers were demo’d.
Back to the fighter issue. I’ve already covered most of it. There were 14 fighters on alert that day, covering the whole nation (I just looked it up). There weren’t any at Andrews. I’m sure the fine men and women at Andrews were watching in horror like everyone else. But they can’t simply get up and launch a plane on their own discretion, even if the planes were ready (which they were not). It would have taken them hours probably to get airborne. Why do that when alert aircraft are just down the road at Langley?
11:12 pm
That all makes some sense. I would have thought there would be more security around the capital year round.
Not a looney, just a skeptic.
11:59 pm
Hey Kreiz:
Bush Sr. pushed for NAFTA originally, not Clinton. It was in actuality a bipartisan affair.
“After intense political debate and the negotiation of several side agreements, the U.S. House passed NAFTA by 234-200 (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor) and the U.S. Senate passed it by 61-38. Some opposition persists to the present day, primarily directed towards specific clauses within the agreement.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFTA
Sure, conservatives at times appeared to wear Tin Foil hats when dealing with Clinton, but it was no where near as bad it is today.
5:51 am
So what? Clinton backed NAFTA. It was a good thing. Ergo Limbaugh’s thesis that Clinton never did one good thing fails.
5:56 am
I used to listen to Rush a lot. It became increasingly obvious to me that he was so preoccupied by his blind rage toward Clinton that he was no longer a truth teller. To this day, he blames things on Clinton. Good grief. The guy left office what, 5 1/2 years ago? Statutes of limitations, anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
6:42 am
Rick, I’m glad you’re going to the conference. I was hoping someone sane would go and report on it.
Regarding the poll, these aren’t voters they’re polling. It’s just people. Most people are stupid. Most stupid people don’t vote because “my vote doesn’t matter.” I’m not worried. It’s higher than I would like, but national tragedies have a way of compelling people toward some simple explanation. (Who shot JFK?) They want an explanation they don’t have to think about or articulate or investigate. And they want an answer that doesn’t require them to do anything or change anything. I’m betting these numbers haven’t actually moved much over the last four years.
Plus, I’m not convinced 1200 is a big enough sample to give a meaningful accounting of the US population’s opinions on this.
8:05 am
Rob,
I can assure you there is better protection for the capital now. However, before 9/11, our primary concern was hijacked planes from overseas and the Soviet bomber threat. Our air defense system at the time was very good at identifying and tracking aircraft approaching our borders in a timely manner, so the aircraft at Langley had plenty of time to launch to counter that kind of threat against DC.
9:04 am
Andy:
For further clarification:
Excerpts From: http://flackrum.blogspot.com/2006/04/911-debunking-norad-conspiracies.html
“NORAD was not set up for internal flight threats. It utilized a linking of radar systems encircling US and Canada to track and intercept inbound international flights. Because of this, no alarms went off in NORAD, and no one in NORAD was informed until the FAA reported a hijacking. 5 jets were scrambled within minutes, 2 from MA and 3 from VA. The next two calls from the FAA provided erroneous information.”
“The first call occurred at 8:37am EST. AA Flight 11 crashed into the North Tower at 8:46am EST. UA Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower at 9:03am EST.”
“NORAD only intercepted one plane over North America in the decade previous to 9/11.”
“At that time, rules prohibited intercepts at supersonic speed over the US. With a cloud of jets flying hundreds of miles an hour throughout the area, with NORAD not having a system set up to track internal flights, with the FAA having provided faulty information to NORAD, and pilots having to rely on a mix of visual identification, on-board radar and relayed guidance, it’s unfortunate, but understandable that fighters were unable to intercept in time.”
As a fighter pilot myself, I can tell you that there were no Rules of Engagement (ROE) describing the shooting down of Hijacked Airliners at that time. The ROE was to simply intercept and make your presence known to the hijackers.
The traffic density within the Boston-New York-Washington corridor is unbelievable. Using raw radar information, it is virtually impossible to selctively identify a specific aircraft without being vectored to that target from a ground or airborne source. When the hijacked aircraft turned off their transponders, the FAA was virually blind to their resultant flight tracts. And when they descended below approximatley 7000 feet above the ground, even their raw radars did not have the capability to properly tract them in order to provide vectoring information to the scrambled military aircraft.
In almost 20 years of flying supersonic fighters, I had occasion to fly supersonic outside specified airspace designed for that purpose only once and that was to respond to an emergency. And even in that case, I had to confirm authorization at least 3 times. Langley is approximatley 150 nautical miles from Washington DC and even at supersonic speeds is over 12 minutes flying time away. And during that time a fighter pilot has to get assistance in determining where the target aircraft is located.
And lastly, I saw the movie and I have to agree with her what “Sweetie” stated that the whole episode is told convincingly in the movie United 93.
9:39 am
I wasn’t gonna do this, but DeWayne’s calumnies can’t be allowed to stand.
relatively minor terrorist attacks against US targets, i.e. the USS Cole, Nairobi Embassy
Terror attacks were escalating in complexity, deadliness, and sheer bravado for 15 years, culminating in 9-11. These attacks weren’t minor by any definition. They were acts of war. If any state had carried out these operations we would go to war with that state. Clinton and Bush Sr. did not see these threats for what they were. GWBush did.
We decipher that he must be referring to Clinton’s occasional ineffective Cruise Missile. Even though the President’s meaning is understood the puzzle remains.
So even though we know explicitely what the President meant, both by your own hand and by extensive parsing of that statement in Rice’s testimony among others, we still don’t know what it meant. You’re in la-la land. You pose a question, answer it and then insist that we pretend it remains unanswered so that you can offer up your conspiracy theory.
Looking at some of the other pieces of the puzzle may give us a clue to the answer.
Or we could use the answer we already have. The one the President and his staff have given multiple times.
Character assassinated Secretary of Treasury Paul O’Neil tells us that from day one the Bush Administration was planning for post war Iraq. Despite the fact that he is a disgruntle, crazy, old man, for conversation sake let’s say what he said was true. In that case, the administration would have had to decide before they took office that they were going to go after Iraq as the way to deal with terrorism.
So the Bush administration is making plans for an invasion and post war planning is in it’s very early – hypothetical – stages. For a country which has WMD, has kicked out UN inspectors (more Cruise missle swats), has ties to international terrorism, is run by a madman guilty of genocide who has started two wars in the last 15 years, who we are “keeping in a box” by stationing tens of thousands of US troops in Saudi Arabia (a move that this nutjob called Bin Laden is always on about when he blows up our embassies and ships in harbor) and enforcing a no-fly zone over 80% of his country (and he keeps firing missiles at our planes) and who we just fought a war with, which terms of the cease fire have yet to be met. Now what on earth could they have been thinking in trying to plan for the possibility that we could find ourselves in armed conflict with that guy again? Oh, I know. It was “as the way to deal with terrorism.” WTF? Are you really that dumb? Do you really think we’re that dumb? That we didn’t see what you tried to do there? The early admin planning had nothing to do with terrorism. It was about clearing a security problem one way or another that the previous President was content to let fester while he chased the international terrorist Yasser Arafat around a table at Camp David trying to ram his tongue down the bastard’s throat in the hopes of getting a Nobel Prize.
Buying into Wolfowitz’s utopian plan for spreading democracy in the Middle East as the answer to the problem of Islamic terrorist activity and would constitute a “broader plan.â€
Wow. Just wow. You are an incredible douchebag. Utopian plan? Democracy is the answer Islamic terrorist activity? Lemme do your comprehending for you here and we’ll see if we can get you up to speed. But I doubt we can, as this has been laid out so clearly and so many times that I think you’re not quite capable of grasping it.
Democracy will provide stability for Middle Eastern governments. Stability is the means to preventing jihadis from creating a movement large enough to topple the weak and unpopular tyrannies in the region. This denies them oil resources and a state apparatus to attempt the restoration of the Caliphate. Democracy is the Long Game.
Removing dictators who threaten their neighbors and have very little popular support also goes a long way toward the same goal, especially if you replace them with democracies. It also removes an excuse, the aforementioned madman as an exterior threat, to avoid democratic reform in countries where it’s still possible. Freedom is a good. It increases stability in an important region. This is the Mid-Term Game. Examples; Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Syria, Iran. Examples of reformables; Pakistan (complicated, but doable), Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Qatar, Kuwait, etc.
Putting pressure on states that allow terrorists to operate from their territory, and on banking and businesses who deal with terrorists is the Short Game. States include England, Italy, Germany, Afghanistan (pre-invasion), Pakistan, Lebanon, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East, the Philippines, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Canada, etc.
The plan is not utopian. The plan is not simple. The plan is not brief. “15 – 20 years” is the way the President has put it. “A generational challenge” is another phrase used. This was not dreamed up on the campaign trail in 1999.
the Bush plan was to sit and wait for the next nuisance terrorist attack, which in turn would become the impetus to put their plan into action.
So after having deliberatly misunderstood and mischaracterized every statement from the Bush adminstration that you’ve quoted so far you’re now ready to create something from whole cloth? This is your fantasy. There’s no evidence for this assertion. It’s just a fever dream you had while trying to explain your inability to comprehend the most basic of ideas put forward by the administration. Why?
BDS. Bush cannot mean what he says because you’re insane. If he does not mean what he says he must mean something else. Enter your fantasy, exit reality, and welcome to the complete circle that is your disease…BDS. You believe Bush knew because you cannot accept that he didn’t. It doesn’t matter that there are reasonable accounts for what he did prior to 9-11. It doesn’t matter that Bush has to be border line retarded, literally, for your theory to make sense. Facts cannot mean what they actually mean. You must give them a new meaning. And not just any meaning, it must be a meaning which demonstrates Bush to be a venal monster and an incompetent. Because that’s what he is. After all that’s why he cannot mean what he says and facts cannot be what they are.
Citizen DeWayne, you’re a moron. And that’s a fact. And you are what Rick is referring to in this post.
9:48 am
Comment #60 was in response to comment #14 if anyone is confused.
10:12 am
What follows is a re-writing of my post #60 to exclude what might be considered foul language in case Rick feels he needs to erase my previous post. Sorry Rick, I didn’t notice your rules before I posted.
I wasn’t gonna do this, but DeWayne’s calumnies can’t be allowed to stand.
relatively minor terrorist attacks against US targets, i.e. the USS Cole, Nairobi Embassy
Terror attacks were escalating in complexity, deadliness, and sheer bravado for 15 years, culminating in 9-11. These attacks weren’t minor by any definition. They were acts of war. If any state had carried out these operations we would go to war with that state. Clinton and Bush Sr. did not see these threats for what they were. GWBush did.
We decipher that he must be referring to Clinton’s occasional ineffective Cruise Missile. Even though the President’s meaning is understood the puzzle remains.
So even though we know explicitely what the President meant, both by your own hand and by extensive parsing of that statement in Rice’s testimony among others, we still don’t know what it meant. You’re in la-la land. You pose a question, answer it and then insist that we pretend it remains unanswered so that you can offer up your conspiracy theory.
Looking at some of the other pieces of the puzzle may give us a clue to the answer.
Or we could use the answer we already have. The one the President and his staff have given multiple times. But no let’s follow the Yellow Brick, see where it goes.
Character assassinated Secretary of Treasury Paul O’Neil tells us that from day one the Bush Administration was planning for post war Iraq. Despite the fact that he is a disgruntle, crazy, old man, for conversation sake let’s say what he said was true. In that case, the administration would have had to decide before they took office that they were going to go after Iraq as the way to deal with terrorism.
So the Bush administration is making plans for an invasion and post war planning is in it’s very early – hypothetical – stages. For a country which has WMD, has kicked out UN inspectors (more Cruise missle swats), has ties to international terrorism, is run by a madman guilty of genocide who has started two wars in the last 15 years, who we are “keeping in a box†by stationing tens of thousands of US troops in Saudi Arabia (a move that this nutjob called Bin Laden is always on about when he blows up our embassies and ships in harbor) and enforcing a no-fly zone over 80% of his country (and he keeps firing missiles at our planes) and who we just fought a war with, which terms of the cease fire have yet to be met. Now what on earth could they have been thinking in trying to plan for the possibility that we could find ourselves in armed conflict with that guy again? Oh, I know. It was “as the way to deal with terrorism.†WTF? Are you really that dumb? Do you really think we’re that dumb? That we didn’t see what you tried to do there? The early admin. planning had nothing to do with terrorism. It was about clearing an existing security problem, one way or another, that the previous President was content to let fester while he chased the international terrorist Yasser Arafat around a table at Camp David trying to ram his tongue down the murderer’s throat in the hopes of getting a Nobel Prize.
Buying into Wolfowitz’s utopian plan for spreading democracy in the Middle East as the answer to the problem of Islamic terrorist activity and would constitute a “broader plan.â€
Wow. Just wow. You are absolutely incredible. Utopian plan? Democracy is the answer Islamic terrorist activity? Lemme do your comprehending for you here and we’ll see if we can get you up to speed. But I doubt we can, as this has been laid out so clearly and so many times that I think you’re not quite capable of grasping it.
Democracy will provide stability for Middle Eastern governments. Stability is the means to preventing jihadis from creating a movement large enough to topple the weak and unpopular tyrannies in the region. This denies them oil resources and a state apparatus to attempt the restoration of the Caliphate. Democracy is the Long Game.
Removing dictators who threaten their neighbors and have very little popular support also goes a long way toward the same goal, especially if you replace them with democracies. It also removes an excuse, the aforementioned madman as an exterior threat, to avoid democratic reform in countries where it’s still possible. Freedom is a good. It increases stability in an important region. This is the Mid-Term Game. Examples; Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Syria, Iran. Examples of reformables; Pakistan (complicated, but doable), Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Qatar, Kuwait, etc.
Putting pressure on states that allow terrorists to operate from their territory, and on banking and businesses who deal with terrorists is the Short Game. States include England, Italy, Germany, Afghanistan (pre-invasion), Pakistan, Lebanon, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East, the Philippines, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Canada, etc.
The plan is not utopian. The plan is not simple. The plan is not brief. “15 – 20 years†is the way the President has put it. “A generational challenge†is another phrase used. This was not dreamed up on the campaign trail in 1999.
the Bush plan was to sit and wait for the next nuisance terrorist attack, which in turn would become the impetus to put their plan into action.
So after having deliberatly misunderstood and mischaracterized every statement from the Bush adminstration that you’ve quoted so far you’re now ready to create something from whole cloth? This is your fantasy. There’s no evidence for this assertion. It’s just a fever dream you had while trying to explain your inability to comprehend the most basic of ideas put forward by the administration. Why?
BDS. Bush cannot mean what he says because you’re insane. If he does not mean what he says he must mean something else. Enter your fantasy, exit reality, and welcome to the complete circle that is your disease…BDS. You believe Bush knew because you cannot accept that he didn’t. It doesn’t matter that there are reasonable accounts for what he did prior to 9-11. It doesn’t matter that Bush has to be border line retarded, literally, for your theory to make sense. Facts cannot mean what they actually mean. You must give them a new meaning. And not just any meaning, it must be a meaning which demonstrates Bush to be a venal monster and an incompetent. Because that’s what he is. After all that’s why he cannot mean what he says and facts cannot be what they are.
Citizen DeWayne, you’re a fool. And that’s a fact. And you are what Rick is referring to in this post.
11:54 am
Please explain how WTC 7 fell down. Thank you.
1:11 pm
[...] Rick Moran is looking at the mind-boggling consequences of Bush Derangement Syndrom, a very good piece – very eye-opening and alarming. Once more, we see ideas being promulgated or supressed in order to appeal less to real thought and more to paranoia, knee-jerkism and emotionalism. This is very worrying. There seems no way to put apply the brakes to this trend. [...]
2:42 pm
Please explain how WTC 7 fell down. Thank you.
Well, a rather large building fell on it, and it was on fire for about 7 hours. It’s amazing that a building can burn that long and somehow not set those demo charges off or damage any of the wiring to the charges, isn’t it?
10:52 pm
Dear Apologist,
Thank you for taking the time to critique my post Swatting Flies. I found your observations and analysis very helpful. My lack of writing skills may have caused some confusion and for that I apologize.
I want to say right up front that, I do not think Bush in any way had forehand knowledge of or participation in the events that led up to 9-11. Nor did I say in any of my posts that he did. If you got that impression it was your own fantasy.
I was not offering my post as supporting evidence of that notion. Rather, I went outside the topic of Rick’s “Bush Derangement Syndrome†and offered my own alternative theory of want transpired during the first 8 months of the Bush administration regarding the lead up to 9-11. Actually, Swatting Flies is an article I wrote over a year ago after hearing the remarks of Codolezza Rice during her 9-11 commission testimony. Especially the swatting flies remark.
I’ll try to abbreviate my response to your comments.
Re: pre-9-11 terrorist attacks
You said: These attacks weren’t minor by any definition.
A: I said they were relatively minor. I should have said compared to 9-11 they were relatively minor.
Re: the puzzle
The puzzle is; why did the president ignore terrorism for the first 8 months of his administration?
You seem to think I’m saying the puzzle is the meaning of the “swatting fliesâ€.
Re: the meaning of “tired of swatting at fliesâ€
You have to admit it is a strange choice of words to describe the president’s anti-terrorism policy. Anyhow, my best guess as to what he meant was “Clinton’s occasional ineffective Cruise Missile.â€
I don’t know, what do you think “he was tired of swatting at flies†means?
Re: Bush coming into office with designs on Iraq
You said: So the Bush administration is making plans for an invasion and post war planning is in it’s very early – hypothetical – stages. (Then you give a list of reasons as to why this would make sense.)
A: You’ve conceded my point that they were focused on Iraq from the beginning. Something the administration denies to this day.
You also seem to be conflating routine military planning with what was the focus of the National Security Counsel in the White House. This is an important point.
Re: Neocon utopian plan for the Middle East
You said: Utopian plan? Democracy is the answer Islamic terrorist activity? Lemme do your comprehending for you here and we’ll see if we can get you up to speed.
A. I got word utopian to describe the neocons Middle East policy from Pat Buchanan: hardly a moonbat liberal.
I understand the basic neocon theory about modernizing the Middle East, the reverse domino effect, and your long description of “comprehending†for me is close enough to be the neocon plan. And, in 15-20 years no more jihadis. Which is basically what I said in a somewhat irreverent way.
But that’s all gone, there is no neocon plan anymore, no spreading democracy, no happy Iraqi. The Iraq war has devolved into such a disaster that the best we can hope for is a C- or D result. Which means we can pullout of Iraq without having it turn into a regional war.
You said: This was not dreamed up on the campaign trail in 1999.
A.Right on! It was dreamed up in the mid-90’s by a group of intellectual elite New York Jews. (I couldn’t pass that one up.)
Re: the Bush plan was to sit and wait for the next nuisance terrorist attack
You said: There’s no evidence for this assertion.
A.Your right, there is no evidence for this assertion. Neither is there any evidence that the Bush administration did any meaningful anti-terror work in their first 8 months, or even took it seriously for that matter.
This was an editorial deduction I made in order to try to solve the puzzle. It wasn’t meant a piece of hard journalism. But I have to say it was a fairly easy assumption to make.
What’s your answer to why Bush did nothing during his first 8 months about terrorism?
2:12 am
After having read the comments on this thread, I have come to a terrifying conclusion.
Based especially upon the commenters who blame Bush no matter what he does or doesn’t do, I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that there are people out there who will not rest, get on Prozac, take a vacation, or even have a day of relative peace in their lives unless they see that breaking news headline flashing on their TV screen, “President Bush Assassinated.”
Don’t tell me that this is not the logical conclusion to BDS. It just is.
Having seen how hate-and-paranoia filled those BDS sufferers really are, I fear for that man’s life and safety. I know, I know the Secret Service is always watching. That’s great.
But I just fear the day when someone passes under their radar and puts two bullets on his brain. I fear to see that day.
And if that ever happens, I will know exactly in which hands I will see his blood. Hint: Not on the victim.
There.
9:58 pm
Really? Assassination? C’mon, now. I’m no fan of the administration, but I sort of wish them health and long life … just not as “The Deciders!”
I’m a moonbat, but I think the Secret Service agents know their job. {Then again, seems to me I saw something about “24” in a previous comment—maybe that makes it easier to imagine sophisticated plots—my buddy J.D. in the secret service says it’s mostly planning, then drinking coffee and watching; and that his life is nothing like “24”) I object to conspiracy theorists of all kinds (liberal AND neo-con); I think the people who believe that anyone in the administration would allow such a terrible thing to happen are wrong and stupid.
Conspiracy theories help us try and comprehend the evil bastards, I suppose. It makes us feel better to think that bad things require massive amounts of planning.
Since you’re apparently someone who believes that the administration got it right, w/r/t the investigation of 9-11, I wonder how you explain the lack of progress on finding any Al Quaida treats, here or abroad? I saw a British documentary that made much of the fact that the very term came from a cat who stole cash from Bin-Jerkwad, and provided DOJ lawyers with “information” on him in order to rope him into the ‘98 embassy bombing. He got witness protection and a coupla hundred dollars. With this as “evidence”, we charged off to find this massive well-organized (“60 countries!”, says Rumsfeld!) pile o’ crap and then … nada. Hell, Bin-Hellbound never used the term ‘till after 9-11.
You say “people will believe anything,” but I think its the results that puzzle the newly sceptical. And your boys have been wrong about lots of facts. I am not (necessarily) faulting them for guessing wrong, given the fact that finding crimes ahead of time is hard, but it might help to understand why, if you fly in the face of reality, when it comes back to bite you in the ass, that people notice.
Rumsfeld said 2 months (outside) and 2 billion dollars, several years and 284 billion dollars ago. So scepticism that your guys figured out what was going on is not entirely “Un. Be. Lievable.”
Of course … I’m a moonbat.
10:03 pm
Oops. Should have said “couple of hundred thousand” dollars.
The politics of hate is sad. And more evident in the acts of the administration than in the opinions of the uninformed. Having an opinion is not necessarily a directly political act. Playing on people’s hates and fears is.
Seen it.
Recently.
10:54 pm
GW and his PNAC conspirators planned executed and are reaping the rewards of their war monger efforts. Their supporters have made billions off of the war as planned, they used their long time Bush family friend Bin Laden as the scapegoat and executed their New Pearl Harbor just as described in their own documents published years before 911 happened. You are simply an ignorant leading the ignorant into believeing what you want, that the terrible truth is not the truth of the story. It is wishful thinking.
War pigs still have the power after all these years. Chickenhawk presidents and advisors with no war experience still plan and fail at making their wars for profit happen.
Innocent Americans and Middle East peoples pay the price in blood for their folly. The shame belongs to you as well as your furer.
9:40 pm
anime
anime
anime – anime
Bank error in your favor. Collect $200.
Your true value depends entirely on what you are compared with.
6:20 pm
50 cent tattoo
6:19 pm
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