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	<title>Comments on: KRISTOL&#8217;S FOLLY</title>
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	<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/</link>
	<description>Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2026 15:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: OLDPUPPYMAX</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-263080</link>
		<dc:creator>OLDPUPPYMAX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-263080</guid>
		<description>Kristol is right when he portrays this as a war pitting Islamists against the West. And just like the war in Iraq, it must be won. Engaging with Israel at this point would, however, be a mistake. The Israelis are big boys, quite capable of taking care of themselves, quite capable of making sound military and political decisions. Why risk alienating muslim allies in Iraq simply to provide superfluous assistance? Nor have I heard Israel ask the US to intercede. On the contrary, they would undoubtedly prefer that we keep our missiles and our  inevitable requests for "calm" to ourselves. Our most useful role will be that of cheerleader and defender of what will sooner rather than later be and embattled nation facing recriminations from most of the countries of the world. As bodies of innocent civilian human shields continue to pile up around Hizbollahs heroes, demands for an Israeli cease fire will come from all sides. And as facts won't matter, we will have to stand for Israels right to self-defense. Irans super-dangerous mullocracy will have to be dealt with--that is destroyed or overthrown--soon, but lets keep that part of our powder dry for the time being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristol is right when he portrays this as a war pitting Islamists against the West. And just like the war in Iraq, it must be won. Engaging with Israel at this point would, however, be a mistake. The Israelis are big boys, quite capable of taking care of themselves, quite capable of making sound military and political decisions. Why risk alienating muslim allies in Iraq simply to provide superfluous assistance? Nor have I heard Israel ask the US to intercede. On the contrary, they would undoubtedly prefer that we keep our missiles and our  inevitable requests for &#8220;calm&#8221; to ourselves. Our most useful role will be that of cheerleader and defender of what will sooner rather than later be and embattled nation facing recriminations from most of the countries of the world. As bodies of innocent civilian human shields continue to pile up around Hizbollahs heroes, demands for an Israeli cease fire will come from all sides. And as facts won&#8217;t matter, we will have to stand for Israels right to self-defense. Irans super-dangerous mullocracy will have to be dealt with&#8211;that is destroyed or overthrown&#8211;soon, but lets keep that part of our powder dry for the time being.</p>
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		<title>By: Davebo</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262981</link>
		<dc:creator>Davebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262981</guid>
		<description>Just curious.  How do you square this..

&lt;blockquote&gt;First, Greenwald may want to inform his readers about all those â€œmilitaristic proposalsâ€ that are â€œtoo crazed or extremistâ€ that have been â€œundertakenâ€ by the Administration. Of course there are none. Greenwald, Mr. Hyperbole, is a serial exaggerator &lt;b&gt;and unless Iâ€™ve missed a war or two in the past 6 years&lt;/b&gt;, he can safely be dismissed in this instance as a partisan hack.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


With this...

&lt;blockquote&gt;If the neoconservatives had a track record of success, I might be more inclined to listen to Kristol, John Podhoretz, and Michael Ledeen who have all come out in the last 2 days advocating American military action in support of Isreal&lt;/blockquote&gt;




Some would argue that the nightmare that is currently Iraq was certainly, in retrospect, â€œmilitaristic proposalsâ€ that have resulted in great losses to both our treasury, our youth, and our world standing.


As a matter of fact, many did prior to 2003.  Weren't you one of them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious.  How do you square this..</p>
<blockquote><p>First, Greenwald may want to inform his readers about all those â€œmilitaristic proposalsâ€ that are â€œtoo crazed or extremistâ€ that have been â€œundertakenâ€ by the Administration. Of course there are none. Greenwald, Mr. Hyperbole, is a serial exaggerator <b>and unless Iâ€™ve missed a war or two in the past 6 years</b>, he can safely be dismissed in this instance as a partisan hack.</p></blockquote>
<p>With this&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>If the neoconservatives had a track record of success, I might be more inclined to listen to Kristol, John Podhoretz, and Michael Ledeen who have all come out in the last 2 days advocating American military action in support of Isreal</p></blockquote>
<p>Some would argue that the nightmare that is currently Iraq was certainly, in retrospect, â€œmilitaristic proposalsâ€ that have resulted in great losses to both our treasury, our youth, and our world standing.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, many did prior to 2003.  Weren&#8217;t you one of them?</p>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262940</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262940</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Dragging the United States into this conflict by taking the opportunity to bomb Iran is, frankly, a ridiculous notion.&lt;/i&gt;  Spot on, Rick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Dragging the United States into this conflict by taking the opportunity to bomb Iran is, frankly, a ridiculous notion.</i>  Spot on, Rick.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris At Home</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262551</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris At Home</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262551</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Our War&lt;/strong&gt;

Bill Kristol:What's happening in the Middle East, then, isn't just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's  ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Our War</strong></p>
<p>Bill Kristol:What&#8217;s happening in the Middle East, then, isn&#8217;t just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What&#8217;s  &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Badge 2211</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262443</link>
		<dc:creator>Badge 2211</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262443</guid>
		<description>Rick writes:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But dragging the United States into this conflict by taking the opportunity to bomb Iran is, frankly, a ridiculous notion. Why now? Is it because thereâ€™s a shooting war going on between Israel and its blood enemies and Kristol thinks no one will notice if we go a-bombing in Iran?

There is no strategic advantage to bombing now compared to a year or two years from now. Itâ€™s not like the facilities are going to get up and walk away. They will still be there unless we can convince the Iranians that they will never build a nuclear weapon as long as the United States has anything to say about it. And since I actually agree with Kristol that the likelihood of that happening are about as close to zero as you can get, it very well may be that some day, Iranâ€™s turn will come. But why it should happen now except as an adjunct to what Israel is doing?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There exist threats that Israel will have to seriously get a grip on and the U.S. cannot be a silent partner. That is why behind the scenes we are trying with great exertion to contain this conflagration. First, like as in Iraq, Iranian Revolutionary Guards are in thick of the fighting. The C-802 missile strike on their Sa'ar-5 class corvette was a shock to the Israelis (who, if he were an American naval captain, would be crucified for dereliction of duty) both because of its presence in Lebanon and that the Iranians fielded that battery. Hezbollah under Iranian military command which also fields it own forces means the supposed checkmate of Iran through Afghanistan and Iraq have leveraged the U.S. with that combined force now presenting a threat through the entire Iraqi western front.

If Hezbollah or the Revolutionary Guards were to unleash a weapon in the WMD class or if Iran were to launch from their territory, who is in the flyover zone for the first or second strikes? Whether in a first strike or the retaliatory one, you can bet the casino that the barrage from Iran will be everything on the shelf from short to long range missiles, a few will not make it to Tel Aviv but perhaps the Green Zone and a few other concentration areas that would decapitate our forces in Iraq in a catastrophic way. Praying that Iran has no working WMDs is a risk I wouldn't take.

The U.S. would have to decide now, not later what contingencies there are in the worst-case scenarios. For sure any exchange between Israel and Iran would have to fly over Iraqi airspace, with Israel having a small percentage possibly out of territory. With Iranian forces already in the conflict against the U.S. and now Israel, none of our options including timing are of our choosing but better be anticipated or we can pay a dear price for not doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick writes:</p>
<blockquote><p>But dragging the United States into this conflict by taking the opportunity to bomb Iran is, frankly, a ridiculous notion. Why now? Is it because thereâ€™s a shooting war going on between Israel and its blood enemies and Kristol thinks no one will notice if we go a-bombing in Iran?</p>
<p>There is no strategic advantage to bombing now compared to a year or two years from now. Itâ€™s not like the facilities are going to get up and walk away. They will still be there unless we can convince the Iranians that they will never build a nuclear weapon as long as the United States has anything to say about it. And since I actually agree with Kristol that the likelihood of that happening are about as close to zero as you can get, it very well may be that some day, Iranâ€™s turn will come. But why it should happen now except as an adjunct to what Israel is doing?</p></blockquote>
<p>There exist threats that Israel will have to seriously get a grip on and the U.S. cannot be a silent partner. That is why behind the scenes we are trying with great exertion to contain this conflagration. First, like as in Iraq, Iranian Revolutionary Guards are in thick of the fighting. The C-802 missile strike on their Sa&#8217;ar-5 class corvette was a shock to the Israelis (who, if he were an American naval captain, would be crucified for dereliction of duty) both because of its presence in Lebanon and that the Iranians fielded that battery. Hezbollah under Iranian military command which also fields it own forces means the supposed checkmate of Iran through Afghanistan and Iraq have leveraged the U.S. with that combined force now presenting a threat through the entire Iraqi western front.</p>
<p>If Hezbollah or the Revolutionary Guards were to unleash a weapon in the WMD class or if Iran were to launch from their territory, who is in the flyover zone for the first or second strikes? Whether in a first strike or the retaliatory one, you can bet the casino that the barrage from Iran will be everything on the shelf from short to long range missiles, a few will not make it to Tel Aviv but perhaps the Green Zone and a few other concentration areas that would decapitate our forces in Iraq in a catastrophic way. Praying that Iran has no working WMDs is a risk I wouldn&#8217;t take.</p>
<p>The U.S. would have to decide now, not later what contingencies there are in the worst-case scenarios. For sure any exchange between Israel and Iran would have to fly over Iraqi airspace, with Israel having a small percentage possibly out of territory. With Iranian forces already in the conflict against the U.S. and now Israel, none of our options including timing are of our choosing but better be anticipated or we can pay a dear price for not doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Smith</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262386</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262386</guid>
		<description>Make no mistake about it Israel is in a war with Islamic Fanitics who only have one goal, which is to destroy them. Hezbollah and Hamas are now and will always hide amoung civillians for protection. I believe that Israel should do every thing in their power to destroy both these organizations once and forever. These two groups specifically have always gainned a concession and then increased thier demands consistantly. Remember their stated goal. I do not believe we as a Nation need to provide more than we are already,political help,hardware , etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make no mistake about it Israel is in a war with Islamic Fanitics who only have one goal, which is to destroy them. Hezbollah and Hamas are now and will always hide amoung civillians for protection. I believe that Israel should do every thing in their power to destroy both these organizations once and forever. These two groups specifically have always gainned a concession and then increased thier demands consistantly. Remember their stated goal. I do not believe we as a Nation need to provide more than we are already,political help,hardware , etc.</p>
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		<title>By: SShiell</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262378</link>
		<dc:creator>SShiell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262378</guid>
		<description>I agree that it is "One war, lots of fronts."  But in this case, let our Israeli allies take care of this particular problem while we watch their backs.

How can we "watch their backs" except doing what we are doing - providing diplomatic cover for them.  But is that all? Iran desperately wants to jump into the middle of this fracas. They basically instigated it. And for them the next logical step in leading the pan-islamic jihad is to take the military lead in this confrontation with the Zionists. Transporting a few thousand troops across friendly borders to get at the Jews could be a likely scenario.

And Israel could not easily strike back.  Yes, they have a great Air Force.  But Iran is over 900 kilometers away - and that is measuring border to border.  From IAF bases to potential taget areas in Iran is over 1,100 klicks - one way. And the Israelis do not have a strategic air refueling capability.

But they do have US forces on both sides of Iran (Iraq and Afghanistan) and the US Navy carrier task forces in the Med and other areas close by (Indian Ocean, etc.) And the fact that of our presence alone should keep the Iranian's attention.

But on a more sober note what if Iran intends this to be the "Big One" and is looking for any excuse to start the fireworks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it is &#8220;One war, lots of fronts.&#8221;  But in this case, let our Israeli allies take care of this particular problem while we watch their backs.</p>
<p>How can we &#8220;watch their backs&#8221; except doing what we are doing - providing diplomatic cover for them.  But is that all? Iran desperately wants to jump into the middle of this fracas. They basically instigated it. And for them the next logical step in leading the pan-islamic jihad is to take the military lead in this confrontation with the Zionists. Transporting a few thousand troops across friendly borders to get at the Jews could be a likely scenario.</p>
<p>And Israel could not easily strike back.  Yes, they have a great Air Force.  But Iran is over 900 kilometers away - and that is measuring border to border.  From IAF bases to potential taget areas in Iran is over 1,100 klicks - one way. And the Israelis do not have a strategic air refueling capability.</p>
<p>But they do have US forces on both sides of Iran (Iraq and Afghanistan) and the US Navy carrier task forces in the Med and other areas close by (Indian Ocean, etc.) And the fact that of our presence alone should keep the Iranian&#8217;s attention.</p>
<p>But on a more sober note what if Iran intends this to be the &#8220;Big One&#8221; and is looking for any excuse to start the fireworks?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Fotos</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262368</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Fotos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262368</guid>
		<description>It's one war. It's the war against Islamofascism. Whether it makes any sense to start bombing Iran is a separate question, but Iran is using Hezbollah against Israel and whatever local terrorists are handy to destabilize Iraq. One war, lots of fronts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s one war. It&#8217;s the war against Islamofascism. Whether it makes any sense to start bombing Iran is a separate question, but Iran is using Hezbollah against Israel and whatever local terrorists are handy to destabilize Iraq. One war, lots of fronts.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262340</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262340</guid>
		<description>Sounds like we're basically in agreement, Rick.  Israel is a somewhat more complex case than Kristol and others are making it out.

On the one hand, its a liberal democracy fighting for its survival against authoritarian thugs hiding behind religion as well as being our best contact in the region. In that role it's to some degree our fight.  We have an interest.

But, on the other hand, it's a state that's fighting for an ethnic and cultural identity and that is emphatically &lt;b&gt;not our fight&lt;/b&gt;.

With the aid we've given it over the years Israel is more than able to hold up its own end against its immediate neighbors (Lebanon, Syria, the Palestinian territory).  It doesn't need our help against its near foes.

That's why I've argued for an explicit policy of negative reciprocity on our part in this conflict.  If Iran holds itself out of the fray, we should as well.

There have been reports that Iran is already actively involved.  I have no way of knowing whether this is true.  It's all the more reason to have an explicit policy of negative reciprocity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like we&#8217;re basically in agreement, Rick.  Israel is a somewhat more complex case than Kristol and others are making it out.</p>
<p>On the one hand, its a liberal democracy fighting for its survival against authoritarian thugs hiding behind religion as well as being our best contact in the region. In that role it&#8217;s to some degree our fight.  We have an interest.</p>
<p>But, on the other hand, it&#8217;s a state that&#8217;s fighting for an ethnic and cultural identity and that is emphatically <b>not our fight</b>.</p>
<p>With the aid we&#8217;ve given it over the years Israel is more than able to hold up its own end against its immediate neighbors (Lebanon, Syria, the Palestinian territory).  It doesn&#8217;t need our help against its near foes.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve argued for an explicit policy of negative reciprocity on our part in this conflict.  If Iran holds itself out of the fray, we should as well.</p>
<p>There have been reports that Iran is already actively involved.  I have no way of knowing whether this is true.  It&#8217;s all the more reason to have an explicit policy of negative reciprocity.</p>
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		<title>By: steve sturm</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/comment-page-1/#comment-262223</link>
		<dc:creator>steve sturm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/07/15/kristols-folly/#comment-262223</guid>
		<description>and besides: does Israel really need military help right now?  Emotional support, yes.  Bush to restrain himself from calling for Israel restraint, yes.  But Israel doesn't need the 82nd Airborne to deal with what it needs to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and besides: does Israel really need military help right now?  Emotional support, yes.  Bush to restrain himself from calling for Israel restraint, yes.  But Israel doesn&#8217;t need the 82nd Airborne to deal with what it needs to deal with.</p>
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