That’s the point. There isn’t one.

If someone says “I want to run a four minute mile” you can encourage them, train them, push them, invest in them. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t, but there is value in trying. Not least because being able to do a 4 1/2 minute mile might be good enough.

If, on the other hand, they say “I want to live on the surface of the Sun” there is no point whatsoever in even trying. It is impossible. Give it up. If they have invested millions of dollars into building their rocket and training their crew, the best course of action is to cut your losses right there and then.

There is no plan that will fix things in Iraq. Whether there ever could have been is debatable, but the fact that there isn’t now is just obvious, surely. I mean, look at your later example;

“Suppose they were willing to raise troop levels, get serious about training the Iraqi military, tell Maliki to shove it and take off after Mookie and his militia and finish the job that should have been done 2 years ago – kill the bastard and destroy his ability to make trouble.”

Raise troop levels. With what? You’re already sucking up all the reserves, crippling the Guard and running out of working kit. I suppose one could pull troops out of other garrisons around the world. Is that the plan?

Training the army (and police). These will be the ones who can’t be trusted by US troops because lots of them are working with the insurgents. The ones who are deeply divided along sectarian lines. The ones running death squads, stealing US supplied arms and giving them to insurgents, the ones infested with militia groups.

Good luck with that.

As for telling Malaki to shove it, good plan. Show him as the the puppet he is. Remove any hope of legitimacy. Show all Iraqis who have any doubt that the Iraqi state is a mask lying over the (lets’s face it) hated Americans.

That’ll stabalise things, won’t it.

As for killing Muqtada and destroying his militia, well, that could effectively lose you an army. If the Shiites started really kicking off like the Sunnis, the supply lines will be completely cut, every man and his dog would start joining in and the government would collapse utterly. You’ll start seeing US casulaties in the hundreds, if not thousands per month, every month.

In response the only military option will be effectivly flattening the homes of a couple of million crazy Shiites. Not only is this obviously monstrous, it won’t even work.

In this sort of stabalisation operation, you need hearts and minds from the people and legimacy for the government. The plan above looks like a recepie for the exact opposite. It will kill a lot of people but it won’t solve any of the problems.

You don’t believe me? Give it a go. I’ll be waiting in 6 months to see the disaster.

Suppose D-Day had failed and the allies had been thrown back into the sea. Most of our airborne troops dead or captured. The assault waves decimated. Instead of the more than 2,000 men who sacrificed their lives on the beaches of Normandy, the number of dead could have approached ten times that.”

Well, gee, let ME propose a “counterfactual”. Suppose on D-Day, the allies invaded India, got bogged down, and the Axis powers threat fronted local oposition to kill Americans on a daily basis, while Germany, Italy and Japan continued their activities. I think the American people would have justifably thrown the Congress out on their backsides, but not before that Congress would have impeached Roosevelt and Stimpson for such gross incompetence and dereliction of duty.

And by the way, if you were to ask 100 Americans if there was a way to win the lottery for you, would you buy a ticket?, my guess is that the majority would say yes. But that would be a very stupid question, wouldn’t it?

In Iraq, we haven’t and aren’t losing the war - the war has already been won. You don’t invade a country and take its capital in 21 days and call that a loss. We are losing the peace!

Yeah, I know, you my think it is just semantics but take “another counterfactual” example here and say the war in 1945 Europe is over, the surrender of the Germans has just been signed and we immediately beat feet, leave the country, even leave the continent. Why? Because we have another enemy to finish off - the Japanese. And no sense wasting any more time here than we need to.

In actual fact, the troop levels in Germany stayed above 500,000 for almost two years. And there were casualties there that would surprise you. And that does not include the British or French troops. (Yes, even the French. The one thing they take pleasure in war is any chance they can to rub the Germans nose in IT.) Why so many troops? How about 2,000,000+ Soviet troops. The War is over but where do you think Europe would be today if we had left.

I agree with you Rick. Disheartened at the way the “Peace” had been conducted - Yes. But until that “Peace” is won, we still got work to do. A new and better plan? Great - Put something on the table Democrats . . . put something on the table anybody.

There’s still too many boomers with visions of ‘nam running around.