Comments on: POLITICIANS HEAD FOR THE BRIAR PATCH TO AVOID IRAQ TAR BABY http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/ Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto. Wed, 22 Apr 2026 19:56:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Right Wing Nut House » SUCCESS IN A VACUUM http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-778416 Right Wing Nut House » SUCCESS IN A VACUUM Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:29:39 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-778416 [...] I and many others predicted that the ISG report would eventually be used by lawmakers as political cover to change the mission in Iraq and start the withdrawal of American combat forces. The question is, can the Administration itself adopt some of the ISG’s recommendations in order to avoid the political and military disaster of being forced to accede to the Democrat’s strategy of set timetables and a much faster draw down of troops? [...] [...] I and many others predicted that the ISG report would eventually be used by lawmakers as political cover to change the mission in Iraq and start the withdrawal of American combat forces. The question is, can the Administration itself adopt some of the ISG’s recommendations in order to avoid the political and military disaster of being forced to accede to the Democrat’s strategy of set timetables and a much faster draw down of troops? [...]

]]> By: Jason Freund http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-401807 Jason Freund Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:07:16 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-401807 "There are two choices in Iraq; win or lose. Those looking for nuance won’t find any." So let's define winning as: Spend $50B, kill 100k civilians and 5k US soldiers per year for 10 years until one sect finally accumulates enough power to wipe out the other, thus achieving a stable, theocratic, anti-US, anti-Israel society. Once that stability is achieved, we pull out and declare victory. If that's winning, I choose defeat. Jason “There are two choices in Iraq; win or lose. Those looking for nuance won’t find any.”

So let’s define winning as:

Spend $50B, kill 100k civilians and 5k US soldiers per year for 10 years until one sect finally accumulates enough power to wipe out the other, thus achieving a stable, theocratic, anti-US, anti-Israel society. Once that stability is achieved, we pull out and declare victory.

If that’s winning, I choose defeat.

Jason

]]> By: Fred http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-400635 Fred Thu, 16 Nov 2006 05:56:02 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-400635 "The Democrat’s base will see to that." That's the American people to you. “The Democrat’s base will see to that.”

That’s the American people to you.

]]> By: tubino http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-400390 tubino Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:28:54 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-400390 I believe it was Ariel Sharon who said that a power cannot win an occupation -- it can only pick the size of its humiliation. "There are two choices in Iraq; win or lose." CHOICE? Look, the Bush admin gave up months ago. Proof? They stopped appropriating reconstruction funds MONTHS AGO. Yes, they cut and ran from rebuilding. Bush lost this war, and he's losing in Afghanistan. I believe it was Ariel Sharon who said that a power cannot win an occupation — it can only pick the size of its humiliation.

“There are two choices in Iraq; win or lose.”

CHOICE? Look, the Bush admin gave up months ago. Proof? They stopped appropriating reconstruction funds MONTHS AGO. Yes, they cut and ran from rebuilding.

Bush lost this war, and he’s losing in Afghanistan.

]]> By: Drongo http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-400195 Drongo Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:11:15 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-400195 "No timelines. No “phased withdrawal.” Get Maliki to sign off on US forces fighting and killing the militias. Instead of the half hearted attempt currently underway to reform his government, urge him to go much farther by cleaning out the vipers nest in his own Interior Ministry. Find some way to accelerate the training and deployment of the Iraqi army. Purge the police of militias and death squads." As I said before, you're faced with the same choices as you've have for the last 2 years. Get out in as good order as possible or continue to bleed slowly as the whole thing falls apart around your ears. If Malaki permits the US to purge Sadr city of militias, you're looking at a shooting war like Falluja and Najaf. Fine, you do that. What's the plan? Kill them all? That was tried in Falluja and it is still a hotbed of insurgency completely out of the control of central government and the occupying forces. If you imagine that killing Al Sadr will quieten things down you haven't been paing attention. Right now the only thing holding Iraq together at all is that the senior leadership of the militia groups wants in to the political process. The more of their leaders you alienate, the weaker the political process, the more it all falls apart. Purge the militas from the police force? You're joking, right? The only members of the police force and army with any get up and go are the militia members. You purge them, you kill the government, and you fire the starting gun on the real civil war. Plus, what are you planning to use to do this? Current force levels are clearly not enough. Institute a draft? You are definitely joking now. The US public will never stand for it. You just can't win. It isn't defeatism, it is defeat. Bin Laden is going to be laughing at you now or in the future. Face it. Deal with it. Move on. “No timelines. No “phased withdrawal.” Get Maliki to sign off on US forces fighting and killing the militias. Instead of the half hearted attempt currently underway to reform his government, urge him to go much farther by cleaning out the vipers nest in his own Interior Ministry. Find some way to accelerate the training and deployment of the Iraqi army. Purge the police of militias and death squads.”

As I said before, you’re faced with the same choices as you’ve have for the last 2 years. Get out in as good order as possible or continue to bleed slowly as the whole thing falls apart around your ears.

If Malaki permits the US to purge Sadr city of militias, you’re looking at a shooting war like Falluja and Najaf. Fine, you do that. What’s the plan? Kill them all? That was tried in Falluja and it is still a hotbed of insurgency completely out of the control of central government and the occupying forces. If you imagine that killing Al Sadr will quieten things down you haven’t been paing attention. Right now the only thing holding Iraq together at all is that the senior leadership of the militia groups wants in to the political process. The more of their leaders you alienate, the weaker the political process, the more it all falls apart.

Purge the militas from the police force? You’re joking, right? The only members of the police force and army with any get up and go are the militia members. You purge them, you kill the government, and you fire the starting gun on the real civil war.

Plus, what are you planning to use to do this? Current force levels are clearly not enough. Institute a draft? You are definitely joking now. The US public will never stand for it.

You just can’t win. It isn’t defeatism, it is defeat.

Bin Laden is going to be laughing at you now or in the future. Face it. Deal with it. Move on.

]]> By: Joust The Facts http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-400070 Joust The Facts Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:17:43 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-400070 <strong>When Politics Trumps The Truth</strong> The NY Times, now that their dissembling and deceit has been successful, gently lets the cat out of the bag in a story this morning. Should we be leaving Iraq, either abruptly or on a planned timetable? Not so fast, When Politics Trumps The Truth

The NY Times, now that their dissembling and deceit has been successful, gently lets the cat out of the bag in a story this morning. Should we be leaving Iraq, either abruptly or on a planned timetable? Not so fast,

]]> By: paradoctor http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-399984 paradoctor Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:47:06 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-399984 You say: "There has never been a war that I can think of that didn’t have a winner and a loser." I reply: Almost every war that I can think of had two losers. Usually we call the one who lost less big the winner; but really the way to win a war is to not be in it. The most reliable winning strategy is called "let's you and him fight". Take WWII. The USA came out on top of that one because of all the powers it was the one least affected. In like wise, I think that the biggest winner of the Iraq war will be China. You say:
“There has never been a war that I can think of that didn’t have a winner and a loser.”

I reply:
Almost every war that I can think of had two losers. Usually we call the one who lost less big the winner; but really the way to win a war is to not be in it. The most reliable winning strategy is called “let’s you and him fight”.

Take WWII. The USA came out on top of that one because of all the powers it was the one least affected.

In like wise, I think that the biggest winner of the Iraq war will be China.

]]> By: george washington http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-399917 george washington Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:56:36 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-399917 If we accept the premise that there are simply two options, win or lose, I am assuming that you define win by some definition along the lines of "setting up a stable Iraqi government that can take care of the security of Iraq." If this is so, then we should stop calling our endeavour in Iraq a war, as I am not sure military victory can be defined by such a benchmark. As such, we have either already won or lost, in which case removing the troops is not cutting and running. In addition, I am also not sure how, exactly, we are fighting a war on terror, which is apparently global, but keeping our troops in the line of IEDs only in Iraq. Perhaps your idea is that we have to stay because otherwise Iraq will become a major haven for terrorists, and therefore winning is preventing this from happening, by way of setting up a stable government in iraq... you see the problem. Another option is, again, to stop caloling it a war, and call it an occupation, in which case there is no option but to leave the troops there, for the foreseeable future. None of these sound like good options, do they? I do not even think that we should necessarily withdraw the troops immediately, or on a timetable, but saying that they must stay until we win, when we either don;t know what winning is, or define it non-militarily attainable terms, is also an exercise in futility. If we accept the premise that there are simply two options, win or lose, I am assuming that you define win by some definition along the lines of “setting up a stable Iraqi government that can take care of the security of Iraq.” If this is so, then we should stop calling our endeavour in Iraq a war, as I am not sure military victory can be defined by such a benchmark. As such, we have either already won or lost, in which case removing the troops is not cutting and running. In addition, I am also not sure how, exactly, we are fighting a war on terror, which is apparently global, but keeping our troops in the line of IEDs only in Iraq. Perhaps your idea is that we have to stay because otherwise Iraq will become a major haven for terrorists, and therefore winning is preventing this from happening, by way of setting up a stable government in iraq… you see the problem. Another option is, again, to stop caloling it a war, and call it an occupation, in which case there is no option but to leave the troops there, for the foreseeable future. None of these sound like good options, do they? I do not even think that we should necessarily withdraw the troops immediately, or on a timetable, but saying that they must stay until we win, when we either don;t know what winning is, or define it non-militarily attainable terms, is also an exercise in futility.

]]> By: jvf http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-399870 jvf Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:34:44 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-399870 You fools - Iraq is lost, and no one won, except Iran. It was lost by 2004. You need to face that fact, and face the fact that all we are doing there at this late date is damage control. Short of levelling the entire country, there is nothing left to do. That's what the American people have come to know, and that's why they voted the way they did. You fools - Iraq is lost, and no one won, except Iran.

It was lost by 2004.

You need to face that fact, and face the fact that all we are doing there at this late date is damage control.

Short of levelling the entire country, there is nothing left to do.

That’s what the American people have come to know, and that’s why they voted the way they did.

]]> By: Wake up America http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-399848 Wake up America Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:21:35 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/11/15/politicians-head-for-the-briar-patch-to-avoid-iraq-tar-baby/#comment-399848 <strong>Generals Call Democrats in Congress</strong> Now to put forth yet another argument about Iraq, which the left should absolutely love (sarcasm), lets take a look at the death rate in Iraq before Saddam was toppled. You do the math... everyone is so anxious to quote how many deaths there have be... Generals Call Democrats in Congress

Now to put forth yet another argument about Iraq, which the left should absolutely love (sarcasm), lets take a look at the death rate in Iraq before Saddam was toppled.
You do the math… everyone is so anxious to quote how many deaths there have be…

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