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Dan Marino had natural talent and was great. Bret Favre has a strong arm but never had a coach like Don Shula. Holmgren, not Favre lost several more Championship opportunities. I give all the credit to Holmgren for getting Favre up to his potential that Ron Wolf saw, but a better coaching staff would have resulted in more Championships. Could one imagine Favre on a Belichick team? Move over Tom Brady. I would put Terry Bradshaw among the top 5 and that would include Favre.

Favre should not retire. The youngest team in the NFL getting better every week, huge salary cap room, tons of cash in the bank. All Favre needs is a marque WR and the Pack is a contender. McCarthy is probably the best coach he has had, why leave.

I agree… in fact, several of these QBs - Marino springs to mind, probably outweighed Favre. Also, since most of these guys were older, they probably were in the 220-230 weight category.

But, the bottom line is that of the 28 QBs listed, there were 9 (including Favre) that were Favre’s size, as listed, so that is 32%. Which means that your chance in 1992 of seeing a QB of Favre’s size was greater than the chance of having a minority person be the next person you see on the street.

Not exactly a “rarity”.

Anyway, not trying to beat you to death on this point. I enjoy the site.

Impressive research but you and I both know that the given height and weight of ALL NFL players is usually low balled - sometimes for strategic reasons.

That said, lots of QB’s 10, 15, and 20 lbs lighter than Favre’s weight. The same could not be said today.

I’m Joseph Rago and I’d like to personally thank you for choosing the Joseph Rago Pro Journalist Institute…

AFC Central
Neil O’Donnell - 6′3, 228
Warren Moon- 6′3, 218
Mike Tomczack - 6′1, 210
Boomer Esiason 6′4, 220

AFC East
Jim Kelly 6′3, 215
Dan Marino 6′4, 216
Jeff George 6′4, 215
Browning Nagel 6′3, 225
Hugh Millen 6′5, 215

AFC West
Stan Humphries 6′3, 223
Dave Kreig 6′1, 200
John Elway, 6′3, 210
Jay Schroeder, 6′4, 215
Stan Gelbaugh, 6′3, 200

NFC Central
Rich Gannon 6′3, 210
Brett Favre 6′2, 225
Jim Harbaugh 6′3, 215
Rodney Peete 6′0, 228
Vinny Testerverde - 6′5, 235

NFC East
Troy Aikman 6′4, 219
Randal Cunningham 6′4, 213
Mark Rypein, 6′4, 234
Jeff Hostetler 6′3, 212
Chris Chandler 6′4, 226

NFC West
Steve Young 6′2, 215
Bobby Hebert 6′4, 215
Chris Miller, 6′2, 212
Jim Everet, 6′5, 212

You can draw your own conclusions

point by point:

1. i will accept that your statement was subjective, but since you admit that you would take montana over favre, I will rest on this point.

2. I just threw out some examples of famous, similarly sized QBs. There are more than enough out there that show that Favre wasn’t a rare physical specimin. Phil Simms, Warren Moon, Marc Wilson, Doug williams (only 6-0, but 225), Archie Manning (6-3), Tommy Kramer, (6-2), Randall Cunningham, Ken Stabler (6,3 215), Dan Pastorini, Bernie Kosar, Vinnie Testerverde, Jim Kelly, Todd Blackledge, Boomer Easiason…by this time do I really need to go on? sure, on some of these guys Favre might have 10-20 lbs, but the entire league has grown. The bottom line is that his size, which might have been above average because of his weight, wasn’t rare by any stretch of the imagination.

3. Losing games. Throwing out Elway’s first two-three years in the league isn’t really all that relevent. Elway rarely lost games for his club after his growing period. Favre has made bone headed plays throughout his career, and just as many in the past 3 years as he did in his first 3.

4. You proved my point here. As Pete said, Favre didn’t play with Lofton (only missed him by, oh, 6 years). And Chmura? Come on! He averaged about 3 receptions per games started for 36 yards and .25 TDs, his BEST season was 54 Rec, 679 yards, and 7 TDs. Jeez…you would have had a better argument if you would have thrown out Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver. He played with keith Jackson for 1 year. Besides, this is an argument that goes towards the greatness of Favre.

1. I agree with Sensei - I would take Montana over Favre. I would also take Marino over either of them talentwise. But three MVP’s in a row (outpolling Elway and Aikman) when no player has ever won more than two highlight the fact that Favre is easily in the top 5 of all time and a good argument can be made that with his competitiveness and heart, ahead of Marino. It’s a subjective statement anyway - perhaps a little hyperbole but not much. Certainly far from being “ridiculous.”

2. I said that his size was a “rarity” - and your examples prove me correct. Bradshaw was from the 70’s. Aikman, Elway, and Marino can be considered contemporaries although Favre began playing towards the end of those other fine quarterback’s careers. It was unusual until the 90’s to see a quarterback over 220 and much more common to see a QB in the 190-210 range.

3. As far as his play losing games for the Packers, I agree. But the same could be said for any great quarterback. What makes them special is their desire to make the big play at the end of the game that wins it. None of them succeeded 100% of the time. I daresay Elway cost his team many more games than Favre - I’m sure you can recall his early years with Denver where he was less than Hall of Fame caliber.

4. In addition to Sharpe, Favre had Hall of Fame Receiver James Lofton and a couple of excellent tight ends - Chmura and Keith Jackson.

That Time Of Year Thou Mayst In Me Behold
William Shakespeare

That time of year thou mayst in me behold
When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang
Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
Bare ruined choirs, where late the sweet birds sang.
In me thou see’st the twilight of such day
As after sunset fadeth in the west;
Which by and by black night doth take away,
Death’s second self, that seals up all in rest.
In me thou see’st the glowing of such fire,
That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
As the deathbed whereon it must expire,
Consumed with that which it was nourished by.
This thou perceiv’st, which makes thy love more strong,
To love that well which thou must leave ere long.

First, Favre was preceeded by big QBs - Aikman, Elway, Marino, and Bradshaw were all about Favre’s size. Even Young, Namath, and Montana were his height. In fact, even when Favre entered the league, he was an inch or two less than ideal.

Second, calling him the “Best to ever play the game” is ludicrious. I like him as a player, but come on. Would you really take him over Elway? Montana? Unitas? Even Marino? If you would, I will extend an invite to you to play in my fantasy league next year.

He has been a great player for a number of years, but let’s not let his retirement to be in 12 years gaze over the reality of his play. He was a great player that made the players around him better, and his gunglinging ways often won games for his team, but he, more than perhaps any other top 15 QB in history, had his play lose games for his team.

Don’t get me wrong, if he would have suited up for my beloved Vikings I would have loved having him. I sure wish I could have seen him play with an elite WR for a number of years, as Sterling Sharpe was the only great one he ever had. But, Marino never had one, nor did Elway until the very end.

Let’s enjoy Favre for as long as he plays, but let’s not be ridiculous about it.

At a team meeting, after Favre had won a Super Bowl and at least 2 MVPs (I cannot remember if he won all three before or after), the coaches were talking about what to do when the opponent had a “nickel” defense in.

Favre leaned over to Peterson and asked, “What the hell is a nickel defense”?

The story pointed out what makes Favre so great. He plays the game because HE LOVES the game. He gets the spotlight because he plays great not because he does some silly stunt in the endzone knowing it will show up on ESPN Sportscenter.

Your tribute to Favre was great and it is even more meaningful because it was written by a bears fan.

Thank you from a Packer Stockholder and lifelong fan.

GO PACK!!