The Iranians elected one leader, they could’ve thrown the Shah out and done it again. They chose to become the only theocracy on the planet.

Whether or not the Iranians could have “thrown the Shah out”, the fact is that the US deliberately interfered with the internal politics of a sovereign nation with a democratically elected leader.

You seem to have forgotten that good friend of GW Bush and good ally of the USA, Saudi Arabia. SA is no less a theocracy than is Iran. Religious police refuse to allow girls to exit from a burning building because they are inadequately dressed, you don’t get much more theocratic than that.

They elected a communist.

Socialist!=communist.

Does it really matter who they elected? They elected someone to represent them, the US decided, for whatever reason, that they didn’t like that person and then set in motion events that led to the illegal and violent overthrow of Mossadegh. It’s really no surprise that the whole sordid mess boiled down to a squabble over oil. Oil seems to have been the focal point of most of the Western meddling in the Middle East for close to a century now.

If you are so good at spotting the tu quoque fallacy, why then did you point out my tu quoque fallacy and not that of Mr Moran in the OP?

If something is good and righteous when one group does it, then why is it not good and righteous when another group does the very same thing?

“Would you like to answer this question now?”

They elected a communist.

Now how is that an excuse for then bringing a far worse dictator (who had abosolute and total control) into power? America (contrary to what you may believe) is not the only guilty party in this equation, it is one of many. To pretend that we’re the single reason the Ayatollah became Supreme Leader is so historically ignorant it boggles the mind. It’s the same argument that it was the Allies’ fault for Hitler’s rise because of the “harsh” penalties enacted with the end of the Great War. It is the fault of the people when they allow a dictator to gain power (the Iranians sure were skilled at getting the Shah out). The Iranians elected one leader, they could’ve thrown the Shah out and done it again. They chose to become the only theocracy on the planet.

The problem there is that no-one will believe anything released as a result of the raid. It is perfectly possible for the US to mock up anything that they want to say, so even genuine intel will be disregarded.

But, let’s be honest, they aren’t going to do that either. At best we will get a watered down, paraphrased version of events.

Of course, if there isn’t any evidence, we will get the standard “Too secret to release but it is leading to some big operations”. Or maybe that would mean they really were keeping the intel close to their breast.

Either way we’ll never know. You can’t trust what US intel people say for public consumption and you can’t trust the Iranians.

All you know for sure is that you’ve pissed off the Kurds.

We don’t have a smarmy Clinton anymore, who was impressive for appearance, not performance.

We have to know the extent of Iranian participation in the Iraqi insurgency. And we have to get proof of it, if it exists. A consulate raid is likely to reveal that proof. Yes, reminders of 1979 Tehran will do fine.

OT-why, oh, why, can’t President Bush deliver a decent speech. The downward trend started in his 2004 State of the Union speech, through the debates, to this day. He needed to hit it out of the park Wednesday and instead gave a nervous, timid performance.

He needs to be coached by a good communication. His communication skills are getting worse, not better, and it is having a very negative effect on his policies.

Would you have criticized Roosevelt when he pissed of DeGaulle (which was a regular occurence in the lead up to Normandy)? Or when he made Uncle Joe Stalin, another ally, so mad he almost made a separate peace with Hitler? Or when he consistently rebuffed Churchill who wanted to use American troops to maintain the British Empire causing the old imperialist to loudly denounce FDR to his friends?

As I said, I’m curious.

I like Rock Moran’s take on the embassy raid. Indeed, how can they complain?