Comments on: THE EAGLES AND THE VULTURES http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/ Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto. Tue, 21 Apr 2026 08:48:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Drongo http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-581643 Drongo Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:12:04 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-581643 "But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things." That should be "Criticizing tactics and calling for a withdrawl are two different things". That would be true. You see full withdrawl would be a new tactic based on a change of strategy. Surging, new rules, outside bases vs super bases, Apaches or A10s, they are all just tactical changes with the same strategic goal, a secure client state in Iraq. This goal is clearly impossible because you are on a clock whereby the US population will not stomach this war for more than another few years. It is well past time to be talking about the strategic goals of the war and whether they need to be changed. If we don't change our strategies then they will be changed for us by events. “But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things.”

That should be “Criticizing tactics and calling for a withdrawl are two different things”. That would be true.

You see full withdrawl would be a new tactic based on a change of strategy.

Surging, new rules, outside bases vs super bases, Apaches or A10s, they are all just tactical changes with the same strategic goal, a secure client state in Iraq. This goal is clearly impossible because you are on a clock whereby the US population will not stomach this war for more than another few years.

It is well past time to be talking about the strategic goals of the war and whether they need to be changed. If we don’t change our strategies then they will be changed for us by events.

]]> By: Nikolay http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-581570 Nikolay Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:25:19 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-581570 <blockquote>But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things. If you are going to protest and call for an end to the war, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that you are doing exactly what the enemy who is shooting and killing Americans in the field wants.</blockquote>Rick, some time ago you seemed to appreciate the nuances of the situation, but now it's the same old song again. The only thing that AQ wants is for America to stay in Iraq. This way they can bleed American army and budget, radicalize Sunnies and not fear serious retaliations from Shias because American army, in effect, protects them. The precipitous withdrawal could be bad for numerous reasons, but it certainly would hurt AQ. _You_ are doing exactly what the enemy wants to do, and there's no way of denying it. The other thing that AQ wants is for everybody to declare that possible withdrawal would be a victory for them, so that they could frame a bad thing for them as a good.

But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things. If you are going to protest and call for an end to the war, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that you are doing exactly what the enemy who is shooting and killing Americans in the field wants.

Rick, some time ago you seemed to appreciate the nuances of the situation, but now it’s the same old song again.
The only thing that AQ wants is for America to stay in Iraq. This way they can bleed American army and budget, radicalize Sunnies and not fear serious retaliations from Shias because American army, in effect, protects them. The precipitous withdrawal could be bad for numerous reasons, but it certainly would hurt AQ. _You_ are doing exactly what the enemy wants to do, and there’s no way of denying it. The other thing that AQ wants is for everybody to declare that possible withdrawal would be a victory for them, so that they could frame a bad thing for them as a good.

]]> By: ed http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-580162 ed Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:30:18 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-580162 And by the way, eliXelx, I am not a liberal, I don't support abortion or euthanasia. If you think my math for declaring victory is cruel, look at the math the Bush White House is using. They don't have a definition of victory, but we must have soldiers die for it, for they will know victory when they see it. I assume you must be either 13, or the cruelest, most unthinking person on the planet. And by the way, eliXelx, I am not a liberal, I don’t support abortion or euthanasia. If you think my math for declaring victory is cruel, look at the math the Bush White House is using. They don’t have a definition of victory, but we must have soldiers die for it, for they will know victory when they see it. I assume you must be either 13, or the cruelest, most unthinking person on the planet.

]]> By: ed http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-580145 ed Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:13:46 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-580145 Dear eliXelx: My wife of 25 years died from cancer 3 years ago and I was faced with the questions you asked. I stopped ongoing treatment when there was no hope of recovery or any quality of life whatsoever, in accordance with her wishes. Any other comments, motherf***er? Dear eliXelx:

My wife of 25 years died from cancer 3 years ago and I was faced with the questions you asked. I stopped ongoing treatment when there was no hope of recovery or any quality of life whatsoever, in accordance with her wishes. Any other comments, motherf***er?

]]> By: eliXelx http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-580080 eliXelx Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:23:20 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-580080 Ed 14 If, heaven forfend, you or a loved one were to fall desperately ill and require extensive and axpensive care, how much and for how long would be enough? Would you pull the plug after a month, three, six? What if you had an annoying insurance agent on your back, asking you to decide? Of course you may support abortion AND euthanasia, in which case all bets are off! Yeah, I know; you don't love your country as much as you love yourself; all comparisons are odious; no analogy approaches truth etc. Still, if you want to do this kind of gruesome and cruel math you have to have something to base it on. How much sacrifice is too much sacrifice? Ed 14
If, heaven forfend, you or a loved one were to fall desperately ill and require extensive and axpensive care, how much and for how long would be enough? Would you pull the plug after a month, three, six? What if you had an annoying insurance agent on your back, asking you to decide? Of course you may support abortion AND euthanasia, in which case all bets are off!
Yeah, I know; you don’t love your country as much as you love yourself; all comparisons are odious; no analogy approaches truth etc.
Still, if you want to do this kind of gruesome and cruel math you have to have something to base it on. How much sacrifice is too much sacrifice?

]]> By: Rick Moran http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-579761 Rick Moran Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:39:16 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-579761 Larry; No where do I accuse anyone of being a traitor or anti American. I accuse people of "witlessly" giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I actually prefer those who wittingly announce their intentions to support our enemies. At least they don't pretend that their protests are carried out in a vacuum, that insurgents from the Cong to the Sunnis aren't counting on the left wing in the United States to do what they cannot do - defeat the US military on the field of battle. It is the only thing that gives them hope - hence, it aids them in their insurgency against our allies in the Iraqi government. Their entire strategy is based on causing the most horrific civilian casualties that are sure to be reported by a compliant media, thus undermining the will of the American people to see the job through to completion. Readers of this site know that I have listed blunder after blunder made by the Administration in Iraq. I have made it clear that our military can only do so much to help, that it is clearly up to the Iraqi government to alter their politcs to include all factions, all sects in order to take the fire out of the insurgency - leaving the genuine terrorists from al-Qaeda to be dealt with. But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things. If you are going to protest and call for an end to the war, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that you are doing exactly what the enemy who is shooting and killing Americans in the field wants. This is so self-evident that I can't for the life of me figure out why it is denied so strenuously. Larry;

No where do I accuse anyone of being a traitor or anti American. I accuse people of “witlessly” giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

I actually prefer those who wittingly announce their intentions to support our enemies. At least they don’t pretend that their protests are carried out in a vacuum, that insurgents from the Cong to the Sunnis aren’t counting on the left wing in the United States to do what they cannot do - defeat the US military on the field of battle.

It is the only thing that gives them hope - hence, it aids them in their insurgency against our allies in the Iraqi government. Their entire strategy is based on causing the most horrific civilian casualties that are sure to be reported by a compliant media, thus undermining the will of the American people to see the job through to completion.

Readers of this site know that I have listed blunder after blunder made by the Administration in Iraq. I have made it clear that our military can only do so much to help, that it is clearly up to the Iraqi government to alter their politcs to include all factions, all sects in order to take the fire out of the insurgency - leaving the genuine terrorists from al-Qaeda to be dealt with.

But criticizing strategy and calling for a precipitous departure are two different things. If you are going to protest and call for an end to the war, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that you are doing exactly what the enemy who is shooting and killing Americans in the field wants.

This is so self-evident that I can’t for the life of me figure out why it is denied so strenuously.

]]> By: Chris http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-579760 Chris Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:37:36 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-579760 Now, why did Reagan build up our armed forces and put us into debt? Oh, I remember, it was to counter the threat of Communism, specifically the Soviet Union, where protesters were sent to Siberia, or put into "mental institutions" for their intellectual crimes. The same Soviet Union that was the self-proclaimed spearhead, model and organizer of the world-wide revolution. The same Soviet Union where people had to stand in line to get toilet paper. The same Soviet Union that was such a workers' paradise it had to build fences to keep its own people in. There, I've started a debate. I'm 40-something, and I don't watch O'Reilly. Now, why did Reagan build up our armed forces and put us into debt? Oh, I remember, it was to counter the threat of Communism, specifically the Soviet Union, where protesters were sent to Siberia, or put into “mental institutions” for their intellectual crimes. The same Soviet Union that was the self-proclaimed spearhead, model and organizer of the world-wide revolution. The same Soviet Union where people had to stand in line to get toilet paper. The same Soviet Union that was such a workers’ paradise it had to build fences to keep its own people in.

There, I’ve started a debate. I’m 40-something, and I don’t watch O’Reilly.

]]> By: BizzyBlog » Gathering of Eagles (GoE) as an Indicator of Old Media Decline http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-579602 BizzyBlog » Gathering of Eagles (GoE) as an Indicator of Old Media Decline Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:37:53 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-579602 [...] UPDATE 4, March 20: Rightwing Nuthouse on Monday – History ended yesterday. Or at least one version of it. Or perhaps it didn’t end as much as it was overthrown, trampled by the feet of 30,000 ordinary Americans who gathered on the mall and along the broad avenues in Washington to confront those who have, either wittingly or witlessly, given aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States for more than 40 years. [...] [...] UPDATE 4, March 20: Rightwing Nuthouse on Monday – History ended yesterday. Or at least one version of it. Or perhaps it didn’t end as much as it was overthrown, trampled by the feet of 30,000 ordinary Americans who gathered on the mall and along the broad avenues in Washington to confront those who have, either wittingly or witlessly, given aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States for more than 40 years. [...]

]]> By: The Discerning Texan http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-578960 The Discerning Texan Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:47:55 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-578960 <strong>Today's Must Read: The "Screw Them" Left</strong> Dean Barnett has gone yard--and Opening Day is not even here yet! Rick Moran also succeeds wildly today with his description of this weekend's Nutroots Waterloo. Today’s Must Read: The “Screw Them” Left

Dean Barnett has gone yard–and Opening Day is not even here yet!

Rick Moran also succeeds wildly today with his description of this weekend’s Nutroots Waterloo.

]]> By: SShiell http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/comment-page-1/#comment-578487 SShiell Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:18:31 +0000 http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/03/18/the-eagles-and-the-vultures/#comment-578487 Ed, you want to ask about the metrics which will define victory in Iraq. So start up the conversation! What do you think? Answer your own questions. How many car bombings in Iraq per month specifically constitute victory? How many American deaths per month specifically constitute victory? How many Iraqi deaths per month specifically constitute victory? How low specifically must U.S. spending go in Iraq per month before that measure can be called a victory? Start up the development of the "Iraq War Measure of Metrics". Put a point system together and establish a scale. Add additional questions to the list such as: How much of the infrastructure rebuilding has to be complete (a defined percentage) before we can declare victory? What levels of governmental tolerance should the various factions reach before we declare victory? (Obviously this would be a scale that would vary depending upon Shia, Sunni or Kurd - but hey, put some bogies in there and we can work it out.) How many more House or Senate Resolutions need to be introduced relating to the end of the war before we can declare the war over and come on home? (Note: At last count we were up to 18, including the non-binding ones, so we may have to set this standard pretty high - 100? - 200? - Oh well, put a number there, we can work around it - Congress usually does.) How many . . . . You get the idea! Lay some thought and work into it and come on back with your ideas. We can pass it around and get endorsements and coordinations from all sorts of organizations. We could even get the idea in some sort of referendum. Put it on the ballot. You could be a hero! This is kinda fun! Ed, you want to ask about the metrics which will define victory in Iraq. So start up the conversation! What do you think? Answer your own questions.

How many car bombings in Iraq per month specifically constitute victory?

How many American deaths per month specifically constitute victory?

How many Iraqi deaths per month specifically constitute victory?

How low specifically must U.S. spending go in Iraq per month before that measure can be called a victory?

Start up the development of the “Iraq War Measure of Metrics”. Put a point system together and establish a scale. Add additional questions to the list such as:

How much of the infrastructure rebuilding has to be complete (a defined percentage) before we can declare victory?

What levels of governmental tolerance should the various factions reach before we declare victory? (Obviously this would be a scale that would vary depending upon Shia, Sunni or Kurd - but hey, put some bogies in there and we can work it out.)

How many more House or Senate Resolutions need to be introduced relating to the end of the war before we can declare the war over and come on home? (Note: At last count we were up to 18, including the non-binding ones, so we may have to set this standard pretty high - 100? - 200? - Oh well, put a number there, we can work around it - Congress usually does.)

How many . . . .

You get the idea! Lay some thought and work into it and come on back with your ideas. We can pass it around and get endorsements and coordinations from all sorts of organizations. We could even get the idea in some sort of referendum. Put it on the ballot. You could be a hero!

This is kinda fun!

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