I don’t know why some on the left insist on believing that they can impress the hell out of the rest of us lowly, scaredy cat peons by sticking out their chest and trumpeting to the skies how unafraid they are of terrorism and how anyone who even glances at a TV to find out what’s going on in London and Scotland is a moronic pants-wetter. All they are doing is making themselves look like idiots.
They laughably presuppose that our interest denotes fear. Why would they do that? Is it that their own carefully crafted, dismissive attitude toward attacks and potential attacks of this sort is actually designed to prove some kind of superiority they may feel toward the rest of us as far as having an excess of courage and wisdom ? How pathetic – I mean, truly pathetic this is. It shows an emotional immaturity and childlike desire to be recognized that in any other context would call for serious mental health intervention. Instead, they are asked on television as guests of Keith Olbermann:
Whom do you call on in a pinch for expertise about jihadist plots if you’re a guy who hasn’t taken terrorism seriously since 9/11? Why, a guy who hasn’t taken terrorism seriously since before 9/11, of course. It’s a segment six years in the making, starting with Crazy Larry’s now-legendary “stop worrying about terror†op-ed published in July 2001 and continuing through to this morning when he wowed the dKos faithful by pronouncing the car-bomb plot a “crock of crap.â€Olby seems a bit subdued here aside from an obligatory sneer at the “media nodding-head dolls†who don’t have the guts to embrace their paranoia the way he does. Eschewing his usual Trutherish shtick in these circumstances, he opts instead for a weak gotcha about how this single incident puts the lie to Bush’s claim that we’re fighting them in Iraq so we don’t have to fight them at home. No mention of the absence of attacks on America since the invasion, no acknowledgment that the guys behind this were probably homegrown and thus already here — the Murrow of our time doesn’t let such trivia get in the way of a good talking point. As for Larry, he sniffs about “yuppie terrorists†who drive Mercedes but naturally doesn’t mention that the Mercedes was ten years old, which means it probably cost considerably less than 10 grand assuming it was purchased recently. He also scoffs at the idea that a bomb this crude could have done much more than torch the car itself and maybe singe a few people within 20 or 30 feet.
For such a dangerous physical specimen as Larry Johnson – who knows the guys who killed cocaine trafficker Pablo Escobar (just ask him) – it may be simple for him to exhibit the cool, unflappable demeanor of a counter-terrorism warrior and penetrating analyst on the battle against radical Islamists.
Except that Larry appears to have put on a few pounds since his terrorist killing days and his ability as an analyst is, well – a little less than prescient. Recall our Larry writing less than 60 days before 9/11 that terrorism was far down the list of things we should be worrying about. And then, his take on this most recent incident, informing us that the terrorists were incompetent boobs who couldn’t harm a fly.
Ooops:
The (left-leaning) weapons experts at Danger Room, who are taking this very seriously, beg to differ, as does ABC News, which was told by British officials that the explosion would have been lethal within a “several hundred yard radius.†And then there’s this:The cell phone had received at least two calls, which should have detonated several gallons of gasoline, but when the calls came in, the bomb failed to go off, the official said.
Had it done so, that blast then would have ignited six to eight tanks of propane in a mist to make a fuel-air explosion, creating a fireball the size of a small house and propelling 18 to 20 boxes of roofing nails around a large area at bullet speed, counterterrorism officials said.
Incompetence? Or just plain dumb luck that many of the 1700 people attending “Ladies Night at Tiger, Tiger escaped with their lives? For some on the left, it doesn’t matter. Even if the bomb had gone off, they still wouldn’t be “scared” and would feel a juvenile sense of superiority over the rest of us bed wetting yip-yips. All because most of us show a healthy amount of interest in this latest attempt by radicals to make Islamic Rage Boy feel a lot better.
The fact that there have been three attempted attacks in the last 24 hours doesn’t matter. One might wonder how many attacks or attempted attacks it would take before some of our lefty friends would deem it appropriate and give us permission to glance at the news and find out what the hell is going on without accusing us of being children cowering against the darkness.
We’ve seen this from the left before, of course. Our “inordinate fear of communism” was a meme used by liberals to show how brave they truly were while us righties were just a bunch of goober chewing, know nothing, bible thumping yawpers. Except while they were busy proving how unafraid they were of communists, conservatives supported leaders who actually confronted and defeated them.
Sound familiar?
4:07 pm
The key point to this sort of “courage” is like most elements of pacifism: it requires that you take a principled stance and resolutely do nothing. If you actually do anything, you’re “overreacting” and “becoming just like the terrorists”. And if you do anything, you may end up needing to do something morally ambiguous like killing bad guys – after all, don’t they deserve their day in court?
The only way to keep one’s soul pure is to do absolutely nothing, and denounce those who do.
4:30 pm
Larry “CIA Analyst” Johnson, foaming, screeching child-member of the Leftist, Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Nutbag crowd, is on a “winning streak”, isn’t he?
A month before 9/11, he said Americans were too focused on “terrorism”, and that there was basically no threat to the United States from “terrorism”!
Last night, he joined fellow Leftist Nutbag/Lunar Chiroptera colong member, Herr Keith “Isn’t it suspicious that when Bush drops in the Polls, these “terrorist attacks” occur?” OBERLOON, to pooh pooh the double failed car-bombing attempt in London yesterday, as the work of amateurs, and not much ado about anything!
HEY LARRY!
You Freaking NUT! You are ZERO for TWO, and about to STRIKE OUT, you freaking Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi MORON!
5:51 pm
Dale, Can you provide a link to that pre-9/11 Johnson statement?
6:29 pm
Had it done so, that blast then would have ignited six to eight tanks of propane in a mist to make a fuel-air explosion, creating a fireball the size of a small house and propelling 18 to 20 boxes of roofing nails around a large area at bullet speed, counterterrorism officials said.
Well, thing is, when ignited, gasoline and compressed gas don’t have the ability to actually propel material that far or with great force. It really doesn’t, unless it is channeled through something to do so.
The primary action of a gas explosion is to burn fuel, and it doesn’t create a tremendous amount of propulsion on land or air unless it is tightly controlled as in a rocket booster.
Increasing the amount of compressed gas canisters or the amount of liquid gas won’t increase the force of the propellant amount either. It will increase the burn, but not the force of the wave blast. Those nails would likely simply be cooked by the explosion of the fuel burning, not propelled, because there is not enough force from that type of explosion to do so. It’s basic science guys.
My understanding was that the nails were scattered in the back seat of the car, away from the gas. The compressed gas cannisters would split open with a loud bang, but not be propelled in any direction when doing so, since the amount of gas inside isn’t enough to propel, nor is it being channeled properly, and of course, the ignition that caused the explosion is burning the gas too fast to allow for any propelling force. For the gas in the cannisters to actually expand “in a mist” would require that this be done BEFORE the gas is ignited, (since it burns too fast to expand as it is burning) and it’s hard to see how that would be done inside the trunk of the car. Maybe the “smoke” that was seen was just that. But, even so, the mist would simply burn in a fireball, not expand outward and explode or have the ability to actually create a powerful enough blast wave with force enough to propell shrapnel or nails.
That’s why gas is so popular a fuel -it’s relatively stable, it doesn’t explode when in an open container, and it burns really fast allowing for fairly even dispersion of the energy and it also is perfect for compression to increase power and control ignition, as in cannisters and the gas powered engine.
The truth here is that the terrorists are learning. As with the 1993 attack on the WTC, failure is part of the learning curve.
That said, it is entirely possible that if these bombs went off, that many people would have been burnt badly. They would have to be within vicinity of the car, at least within 50 feet. Anyone inside the club would have been fine, although the gas fire could feasably ignite the building on fire.But, shrapnel would have been non-existent with a bomb of this type. Simply not enough wave force is created by burning gas to create that type of result. It certainly had no chance of actually ripping the building apart in any way.
The chemical reaction in this “bomb” is all about burning the fuel, and gas burns too fast and too low without a powerful enough initial explosion to do the damage hoped for, whereas in an explosion from high yield chemicals, the reaction is powerful enough and hot enough to rip metal and propel objects.
When a compressed gas tank is ignited, it rips open with a gigantic bang, but it doesn’t rip the tank to shreds or propel it anywhere. It might jump a bit in the air from the initial ignition, but it won’t shoot around or anything. And, gasoline doesn’t “explode” like you see in the movies. A large container of gasoline in an enclosed space will likely burn the fumes first, which will cause the fireball to extend where the fumes are… again, if inside a car trunk, the fumes are contained. Once the gasoline ignites, it would fireball a bit concurrently.
The fireball with that much gas could indeed be as big as a house, but it would last for less than a few seconds. Five at most. It would burn fast since there is no element of extending the fuel outward. Meaning, the fireball is the initial ignition expanding and burning outward looking for oxygen, but once the fuel is burnt, it’s done. And, gas burns really really fast.
Didn’t you guys ever blow up stuff as kids?
6:40 pm
London Terror Plot Update: Cars, Bombs and Airport…
These bloggers and many of their readers are on a mission to go where no human has gone before. They are beyond mere denial and delusion; beyond psychosis even. I regularly treat schizophrenics who have more respect for reality….
6:54 pm
The Brits have a very serious problem on their hands and the US has to learn in advance—-something we should have learned before 9/11—-that a certain percentage of any religious sect is intolerant and excessively zealous. In the case of Islam, this means suicidal atrocities which no other religion would commit, as Islam tends to be dominated by violent reactionaries in certain of its most fervent countries.
Of course, fakes and poseurs like Larry Johnson are somewhat like Michael Moore on Saudi Arabia or Al Gore on Global Warming—-simply inaccurate, underqualified, and aggressively wrong!
7:59 pm
Larry is still blogging about this non-event, but if you read it careful he is doing a bit of backtracking , especially about his bomb tech dumb A$$.
8:02 pm
If you want to see a picture of the lefts today heros of justice take a look at this one.
Larry Fatboy Johnson and Joe The Toad Wilson in the same picture frame.
9:43 pm
Sound familiar?
Yes.
Now that you mention it…
12:10 am
Funny how tough these folks are now. Remember them re-scheduling the Grammys several times after 9/11 for “security reasons”? If it might be their ox being gored, they are a little more sensitive.
6:42 am
Fletch:
I have never said that we should bug out of Iraq. I have never said we should stop confronting and killing al-Qaeda in Iraq. You don’t shoot howizters at gnats nor do you use tanks and planes to kill terrorists. We don’t need 160,000 troops to keep killing our enemy.
And the fact that I support anyone who will aggressively confront and try and defeat the terrorists – even George Bush if he would just do it – means that for the moment, I support all the Republican candidates for President.
Bush is not fighting terrorists in Iraq. He is fighting history. Guess who’s gonna win that one.
9:05 am
Notice that these are the same people who will insist that Bush is al-Qaeda’s best recruiting tool and that he has made the world a much more dangerous place. And yet, if you think there’s a terror threat, you’re a bedwetter.
Just Got Back, you can find Johnson’s pre-9/11 statement here.
As for your explanation of the explosive potential, google “BLEVE”.
9:10 am
[...] Rick at Right Wing Nut House on overreacting to terrorists [...]
11:29 am
Just Got Back: Here is Larry “I’m a Nutbag Leftist” Johnson’s Penultimate example of his so-called “analytical” expertise:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/10/opinion/10JOHN.html?ex=1183348800&en=5c29b6e08882c8aa&ei=5070
Never saw anyone, milk a 20 years old, blip-on-the-radar less than stellar 4 year “Intel” career as a “Analyst”, for so much Self-Aggrandizement!
It reminds me of John Kerry milking a 40 year old 5-month’s-in-combat (with 3 fake medals) career, in order to try and get into the White House.
Also keep in mind, Johnson has made claims in the past that he worked for the “sexy” “Directorate of Ops” in the CIA; that’s a falsehood; he was in the Directorate of Intelligence, as a low-grade 4-year analyst deskrider (a REMF as we so-deservedly derisively called them: Rear Echelon Mother-F&%$er); and he if had been any good at his job, he wouldn’t have left after only 4 years, trust me!
11:51 am
The Left’s push to Downplay Terror Threat…
Lately there have been more frequent and concerted efforts by the Left to convince people in all forms of media (including my comments section) that this whole “9/11 thing” was an anomaly; that we have nothing to fear from Islamist terrorists—unless…
12:08 pm
Rick: even thought I don’t comment on your blog as much as I used too; I still read you every day.
I was a bit “surprised” by your turn against the war in Iraq last week, and refrained from comment/debate with you on purpose.
As someone who was in Iraq the first time around, and got to see Saddam’s handiwork on the Kurds up close and personal; I need no convincing whatsoever, that we did the right thing, when we invaded, and toppled Saddam.
In fact, I was furious at Bush Sr. when he refused to do it in 91.
I know, I know, every one says “he didn’t have the authority”, blah, blah, blah; that’s nonsense.
I can’t even begin to adequately describe what complete and utter genocide I saw perpetrated upon the Kurds, the number of dead Kurdish kids I saw, etc.
Sadly, this Administration, has made major mistkes, from the begnnning, not only in the conduct of the War in Iraq, but also Afghanistan.
I can’t offer any excuses for any of those, and won’t.
However, no one, who hasn’t see what I have seen, will ever convince me that it wasn’t the RIGHT thing to do in Iraq, and despite all the obstacles, all the hurdles, all the pain, this is a Necessary War, and one that we NEED to see thru to the end, one way or another.
I’ve been living in, studying, living with, and analyzing the Islamic Religion and Culture, for 30 years.
I’ve forgotten more about that area of the world, than Buffoons like Larry Johnson ever knew!
I’ve lived there, worked there, been there as a dependent, student, worker, businessman, civilian, military member, IC specialist, etc.
The Bush Administration did what it did, for it’s own reasons. I don’t claim to be able to read the minds, nor know the dynamics of the interal Administration debate/reasonings, for the Iraq War.
Was it the RIGHT thing to do: Unequivicably!
It is something we NEED to “win”: Categorically!
Probably not realizing what they’ve done, the Bush Administration set us upon a course, that will absolutely bring about a complete an utter Paradigm Shift in the Islamic Religion.
One that was necessary, one that required, and one that IF it hadn’t have been done now; would’ve reared up 20, 50, 75 years from now, and been UNSTOPPABLE!
It’s painful, both in terms of our casualties, and also in the lives of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, etc.
WWII took the lives of literally Tens of Millions of lives as well! No one ever argues, (except idiot Marxist-Leninist Anti-Semitic Anti-American Pro-Jihadi types like Noam Chompsksy, etc.) that WWII was unnecessary.
Despite the attempts by the Administration to reamin “PC” and talk about Islam as the Religion of “Peace”, nothing could be further from the truth!
Thanks to Truman, we didn’t finish the Korean “propblem”, and now, 55 years later, that situation, may end up costing MILLIONS of lives, if it ever goes to war again.
Thanks to Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagen, we didn’t finish the Iranian and Hezbollah “problems”, and now, with them on the verge nuclear weapons, and Iran/Hezbollah nothing short of Terrorist organizations, it’s already cost us the lives of our Marines and civilians in Beirut, their share of dead US Military in Iraq, and ultimately maybe hundreds of thousands of dead in any further conflict.
Thanks to Bill Clinton, we didn’t finish the problem in Somalia, and it cost us the casualties in Black Hawk down, and within the past months, we had SOF and Ethiopian forces paying a price there, again, and it’s not done!
Thanks to Bush Sr., we didn’t finish the “Iraq” problem, and we are paying the price now!
The bottomline, “talking”, “negotiating”, “playing nice”, and “surrendering” to these Jihadies, and Shias, and loons like the North Koreans DOES NOT WORK!
Outside the US, and the UK, and some handful of other Western Oriented cultures, ANY attempt to “negotiate” or “talk”, is viewed as a WEAKNESS, and it means that you have LOST!
That is just a FACT of life, IF you have a clue, and knowledge and experience of these cultures.
I DO!
The Moonbat Leftist Anti-American Pro-Jihadi Pro-”Peace” Nutbags in this country and Europe, DO NOT!
The bottomline Rick: THESE PROBLEMS NEVER “GO AWAY”; THEY ARE A CANCER, AND UNLESS YOU EXCISE THEM, THEY WILL CONSUME YOU!
I know, the Leftists who inhabit this board, will read the above, and as there Talking Point demands, will pooh pooh the “consume” comment; saying “Do you really believe the Jihadis can come over here and take over…blah blah blah”..
I even had an Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Nut, on another Blog some months ago, ask me to show him which Jihadi Organization had an Air Force and Naval capability to launch an invasion of the US!
It’s a stunning display of stupidity and naivetee and idiocy, that shows once again, that I have 30 years of experience analyzing this problem, and they have Zero!
Rick, I’m not attacking your recent stance, nor am I even debating you, it’s unnecessary, I’m stating my opinion, based upon my vast knowledge of this culture, religion, and people.
I do politely suggest however, that you continue to stay on top of the situation, and continue to read what is really going on, and not pay attention to RINO’s such as Lugar and Vonovich, and of course, the MSN and the LTSP (the Leftist Treasonous Seditionist Party, formerly known as “Democrats”)!
To get an Unvarnished account of what is really going on in Iraq, on a daily basis, I suggest you read these sites:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm
http://patdollard.com/
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=1&id=4&Itemid=128
http://www.counterterrorismblog.org/
http://www.douglasfarah.com/
Regards, Dale
12:48 pm
And I forgot to add:
And because of Bill Clinton, Sandy Berger, Tony Zinni and Geroge Tenet, we did not finish the Al Qaeda “problem”, and 9/11 was a result.
Anything short of killing these bastards, and they view it as a “victory”, and come back even stronger.
Saddam remained convinced to his dying day, he WON the “Gulf War”!
Why? Because in the end, he was ALIVE!
If the situation would’ve been reversed, trust me, he wouldn’t have been so magnanimous!
Pro-Jihadi Leftists, will argue, that we “created” more Jihadis than would’ve existed ordinarily, by invading Iraq.
I ask them them, “what about 9/11”; that happened before Iraq?
That either shuts them up, or they start saying but yes, “that’s our fault, because of Israel”.
That’s what always come back to; Leftists in this country are intrinsically Anti-Semitic, even the ones that are Jewish, like Noam Chomsky!
If you tell them that the theological “grandfather” of mondern Jihadism, Syed Qutb, came to the United States BEFORE the establishment of Israel, and decided that the United States was Evil, and needed to be Destroyed, and converted to Islam, they start sputtering, and stuttering, and become apoplectic; they have no answer; because they have no knowlege nor experience, except Anti-Americanism, Anti-Semitism, and Pro-Jihadism and Reflexive Surrender Syndrome!
Yes, in the short term, the Iraq invasion probably does “create more terrorist”; things will be bad, and worse, for awhile, but it IS necessary!
However, the unexpected side benefits, are that it has significantly Speeded up the Jihadis longrange plans; WE are not controlling the timetable, NOT THEM!
The thought that after the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan, and the end of the Gulf War, when the Jihadis had free reign in Sudan, Afghanistan, and Saddam was free to crush the Kurds and Shias (OUR fault, by the way!), and establish ties with Al Qaeda via “back channel” while denying it openly, that the West would just sit back, and allow them to establish Islamic Caliphates in Sudan, Afghanistan, etc., and from there, eventually take over the whole “Dar el Islam” and eventually, the “Dar el Harb”!
Clinton’s complete and utter abdication of responsibility in Somalia, after the WTC ‘93, Khobar, the Am Emb East Africa and the USS Cole, only REINFORCED their believe, that the US/West was FINISHED, and they would have an easy time implementing their longrange establishment of the Islamic Caliphate plans, which they have mapped out to 150 years from now, IF necessary!
We can’t even plan for six mnnths for now!
We definitely disrupted their plans, by speeding things up, we control the tempo, to our Advantage, IF the Leftist nuts in the country don’t force us to Surrender first!
A proof of this side benefit, is that he Saudi Government, has estimated that 5 – 10,000 young Saudi men have “disappeared” into the sands of Iraq and/or mountains of Afghanistan, mostly dead at the hands of US/NATO/Coalition forces.
I ask you Rick; would you rather have those 5 – 10,000 potential Saudi Jihadis, which doesn’t even count the amount of “missing” Moroccans, Algerians, Libyans, Syrians, Palestinians, Egyptians, Pakistanis, etc., fighting in Iraq/Afghanitan, and other OVERSEAS battlefields, taking on our Marines and Soldiers and Navy and Air Force, and LOSING EVERY ENGAGEMENT; or would you rather have them sitting at home, indolent, bored, stuffed with Wahhabi and Salafiyyah Petro-cash, trying to figure out how to come back over HERE, and kill another 3000+ of our fellow innocent American civilians, on the way to work?
Me, that’s no choice at all; despite the fact that Leftist Nuts in this country would rather SURRENDER, than make that choice!
Just remember Rick; the US “lost” Vietnam, despite the FACT that the NVA and VC NEVER WON A SINGLE BATTLE on the Battlefield, above the size of a Platoon on Platoon engagement (say 35 personnel vs. 35 pesonnel!)
How did we “lose” Vietham, if that is the case?
LEFTISTS will to surrender, in this country!
General Giap himself said, “We didn’t win on the Battlefield, we won on the streets of America”!
In Iraq, it is even WORSE!
Jihadis have not won ONE “battle”, above the SQUAD tactical level, in either Afghanistan or Iraq; a Squad of Military personnel, is one third of a Platoon, so 10 – 15 personnel.
In fact, 18% of our Total “casualties” in Iraq, are NON-COMBATE related; that means vehicle accidents mainly, disease, some suicides, etc.
18%! In military historical terms, that’s an astounding figure!
Of the remaining casualties, 70% have not even been killed in direct battle conditions, but killed by IED/VBIED’s!
That means that only 30% our casualties have actually been killed in traditional battle; which shows not only the stunning inability of the Jihadis to fight, but also of the extreme capabilities our our men and women in uniform!
Of course, this IS “doom and gloom” for the Surrender First crowd, but for anyone with a Clue, about Military History, it’s a stunning testement to our actual battlefield dominance of the enemy!
But a casual reading to the day-by-day MSM accounts of th eWar, would never give you that impression!
This is a Necessary War, Rick; one that we ARE winning, just like Vietnam.
In Vietnam, we Surrendered, after winning.
In the Gulf War, we won the Battle, and lost the War, due to a lack of Will.
In Iraq and Afghanistan, we have DOMINATED the enemy, we are winning, and could win, and could accomplish that “Paradigm Shift” in the Middle East, and Islam, that we so desperately NEED; but I seriously doubt, because of the Nutbag Leftists, that we will get the time!
History will never forgive us for that!
1:15 pm
Scaredy-Cats?...
Not a few voices on the left are “sticking out their chest and trumpeting to the skies how unafraid they are of terrorism and how anyone who even glances at a TV to find out what’s going on in London…...
2:47 pm
Please close comments because nothing else needs to be said now.
God speed Dale.
7:23 pm
Dale asks which Jihadi organizations have an air force and naval capability to launch an attack on the US. None of them do, however, both Russia and China, especially Russia. have such a capability. Also, the Jihadists get much of their support from Russia and China. Without this support from Russia and China the Jihadists would be much easier to defeat. Unfortunately it appears Russia and China, especially Russia, are largely being ignored.
4:52 am
I probably shouldn’t say this, but after having been in the propane business for 35 years and having seen a few few propane tanks involved in fires, plain old house fires, if the tank gets hot enough due to close proximity to the flames, the emergency vent cannot handle the amount of liquid fuel trying to be vaporized inside the tank. This takes time to raise the temp sufficiently. If there is a weak spot in the metal, and there always is, it will come apart like a paper bag! Depending where the rupture is located on the tank will determine it’s direction of travel, and travel they do! Have seen them arc into the air and downrange for over a hundred yards! But for a catastrophic explosion you need a BLEVE wherein the total contents of the tank needs to be released all at the same time! A gasoline fire adjacent too the tank just isn’t going to make that happen. The initial flash and bang of the gasoline will have dissipated long before the temp in the propane tanks gets hot enough to blow.I can tell you HOW to make that happen, but won’t ‘cause you never know just who is reading these things. BTW, Great post Rick. Regards too all you right wing nutjobs like me!
8:32 am
B. Poster: you are correct of course; but that was a Rhetorical question I was asking; that’s the “question” I hear from Leftists all the time, when they are denigrating what they consider to be “Right wing Fear Mongering” about the Jihadis coming over here to the US to attack us.
But I agree, we know that Russia, itself the subject of Jihadism, such as Beslan, Chechnya, and all it’s Islamic Caucuses territories; as well as China, which has been caught supplying arms to the Taliban, are making our life difficult.
It’s a shortsighted policy, because they are both targets.
Everett: Interesting information; clearly this latest go around of British Jihadis (whether of the homegrown “local” flavor, or foreign “import” types) are base amateurs compared to the hardcore Jihadis in Iraq.
That’s why I personally, as of yet, am not totally convinced this was a “frontline” controlled/ordered by Al Qaeda plot.
This strikes me, so far, as more run-of-the-mill “We’re inspired by Al Qaeda and let’s go out and kill some clubber’s type.
Certainly, they had the opportunity to get lucky, and possibly kill hundreds; I don’t dismiss that threat, and unlike the Nutbag Leftists, I KNOW the Jihadi threat is real, whether it’s amateurs or professionals.
But as of right now, this plot seems to stand out to me, for it’s sheer incompetence, vice anything else.
9:57 am
Dale in Atlanta,
I often disagree with your positions, but your first post on this thread was a terrific, thought-filled statement that is appreciated. I do have one question. You mentioned keeping Jihadist’s busy in Iraq as helping keep them from attacking the U.S. I pray this is true.
What I don’t understand is that the entire 9/11 operation only involved a few dozen plotters and operations people and a half a million dollars at most. It would seem to me, although I don’t have your knowledge or background, that nothing going on in Iraq could stop a few dozen men from raising suffecient cash and carrying out a serious terrorist act in the U.S.
I also would like to think that our intelligence and law enforcement efforts (shutting down several active plots that we know of) have played a more important role in preventing terrorist attacks than the Iraq War. You obviously know more than I do on the topic, so my question is, where am I wrong in these assumptions?
12:09 pm
ed: you are not incorrect, in stating that we disagree more often than not! But, you ask me serious questions, and I detect a sincere effort, not one at demagogery; so I will attempt to answer, in the same respectful manner.
“You mentioned keeping Jihadist’s busy in Iraq as helping keep them from attacking the U.S. I pray this is true.”
You and I both; but you also have to know, that our IC, our Military, our Law Enforcement, the DHS, etc., etc. HAVE to be 100% correct!, to avoid ANY terrorist attack!
No room for error.
The Jihadis, on the other hand, only need a 1% success rate!
I use the example of the Space Shuttle to illustrate this to critics.
ed, do you know how many SUCESSFUL Space Shuttle flights there have been??
......
There has been a total of 118 Shuttle Flights; 116 Successful, and the two obvious “Failures”!
So, if someone asks you, “tell me about Space Shuttle flights”; I’m sure the first two you mention, are going to be the failures!
Wow, where else could a 98.4% Success rate, be considered a Failure?
Same with 9/11, and any other Jihadi attack; no one will ever remember the successes, the Jihadis are successful if they only get thru ONCE!
It’s basically impossible, based upon human nature, weaknesses, incompetence, to be successful in stopping ALL Jihadi attacks/plots, etc.!
That leads into your next point:
“What I don’t understand is that the entire 9/11 operation only involved a few dozen plotters and operations people and a half a million dollars at most. It would seem to me, although I don’t have your knowledge or background, that nothing going on in Iraq could stop a few dozen men from raising suffecient cash and carrying out a serious terrorist act in the U.S.”
You are, in my humble opinion, 100% correct!
I told my colleagues, after 9/11, and the handwringing and second-guessing began, that they had it BACKWARDS!
The “miracle” is not that 19 Jihadis, with a $500,000 budget, and box-cutters murdered 3000 people, and toppled the WTC; the actual “miracle” is that it DIDN’T HAPPEN BEFORE, and even more puzzling, HASN’T HAPPENED SINCE!
I don’t for the life of me, know why Al Qaeda/Hezbollah, have NOT started a Homicide Bomber/Carbomb campaign in this country.
With our open borders, and the Leftist nuts inside the CIA/NSA/DOD/US Congress, etc., who have in effect, gutted all the efforts the Bush Administration has tried to stay on top of the Jihadis: the NSA program, the SWIFT Program, the FISA program, etc., by LEAKING everything about them to the MSM, I’m just amazed that we haven’t been hit dozens, if not scores of times since 9/11 & the Iraq Invasion.
I’m not the only person who has wondered this, of course; trust me, they are talking about it every day, “inside”.
My only explainations are completely my own, and I’m not egotistical enough to think they are all-inclusive nor complete:
a) Al Qaeda was caught somewhat by surprise, by the “success” of 9/11, in actually knocking down both of the towers. Bin Laden himself, has kind of admitted that, in a video of him captured after we invaded Afghanistan, and broadcast all over the world.
Bottomline, that “success” has kind of spoiled them; the want the Next attack, to be even MORE “successful” than 9/11; in a way, they would lose “face” and generate talks of their impotence, or devasted capabilities as the result of US actions since 9/11, if they started to launch piddly-assed attacks, like they tried in Britain, which is a different case than the US.
b) truly, Afghanistan & Iraq, has really tied them down. We know (and by “we” I mean this is NOT any “inside” info, it’s available on the net, if you know where to look!), that there have been serious Theological Discussions, and even Rifts within Al Qaeda, over which targets to attack first.
When 9/11 was carried out, it was seen as a victory for Bin Laden/Zawahiri, as the proponents of “Far Jihadi”. There had been ongoing theological rifts for years, between the proponents of “Far Jihad” i.e. let’s not sit back and wait for the Americans to come to us, let’s take the fight to their homelands, and the proponents of “Near Jihad”; which was the philosophy favored by others, and which meant basically, let’s get rid of the corrupt local Muslim/Arab governments, backed by the US/West, first, then take the fight to the homelands of the Americans.
Bin Laden/Zawahiri, pushed and won the debate of “Far Jihad” vs. “Near Jihad”, and with 9/11, “won” the argument.
However, the Iraq invasion, changed the dynamic, they clearly did not only NOT expect the Taliban and themselves to get pushed out of Afghanistan so easily (relying upon over 300 years of Military History which stated that no foreign power could in fact, prevail in Afghanistan); but they also never expected the invasion of Iraq.
Since then, there has been ample evidence that with the Invasion of Iraq, the rifts between the “Far Jihad” and “Near Jihad” proponents have been opened again, and it is clear from documentation captured in Iraq, and from Jihadi forums, etc., that the “Far Jihad” approach was put on the backburner, and that “Near Jihad” definitely came to the fore again. In fact, the evidence is that the Jihadis now consider, the War in Iraq to be their SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT battleground in the their eventual plans to re-establish the Worldwide Islamic Caliphate!
To them, it would be an absolutely devastating loss of faith, to lose in Iraq, they’ve tied all their resources, all their efforts, and all their propaganda up on the last 4 years, in “winning” in Iraq.
That is a fact; so in that sense, I think you are not correct.
“I also would like to think that our intelligence and law enforcement efforts (shutting down several active plots that we know of) have played a more important role in preventing terrorist attacks than the Iraq War. You obviously know more than I do on the topic, so my question is, where am I wrong in these assumptions?”
Remember the “Millenium” Plot; that was touted by the Clinton Administration as a big “success” in the war against Terror!
It was anything but; it wasn’t picked up by our IC AT ALL!
Despite what Clinton, Berger, Clarke lie about it!
It was one, single, on-the-ball female Customs officer, at the border, late at night, who was suspicious of an idiot coming across the border, and did what she should do, and that arrest, and that arrest only, stopped the plot!
Well, I bring that up, because whether we admit it or not, the “plots” that have become public over the past 4 years, have been more, really about the amateurishness, and stupidity of the actually Plotters, than about anything we’ve really done to stop them!
That includes the NYC Pipeline plot, the Ft. Dix plot, etc.
Now notice, I am NOT, like the Left, pooh poohing the fact that there actually EXISTS a threat from Jihadis, and that by chance, another dozen of amateurs, can get lucky, and kill Thousands.
That CAN Happen.
It’s just that I personally, have not seen one single Plot, that has become public in the past 4 years, that was being done by “Professionals”.
Now, I’m caveating this, because I don’t have “inside” information any more, and I have NO IDEA what SERIOUS plots have been stopped, that for reasons of National Security, or exploitation aspects, have NOT become “public”.
I have no idea, and I have no details; based upon comments over the past couple of years, by people such as Bush and Cheney and Chertoff etc., I suspect there have been dozens of such cases, but I don’t know details, and I suspect that any of those, may have been a bit more professional, and hence more dangerous.
But I would propose to you, that you should NOT take the fact that there have been NO major attacks since 9/11, and a half dozen amateurish plots have in fact been stopped, as comfort in thinking that we have a complete handle on everything, and that we’re safe over here!
In fact, I believe, it’s exactly the opposite.
I think they’re planning the BIG one, though in what form, I cannot accurately predict.
And we are NOT 100% perfectly capbable of stopping everything; especially with our completely OPEN borders, north and south.
As you know also, still only something like 3% of all shipping containers coming into the US, are inspected!
I can’t imagine what theyve been successful in smuggling thru, that way.
So, again, I would propose, that the ONLY reasons we’ve haven’t been hit with the “big one”, just yet is because:
a) we have, thanks to Iraq and Afghanistan, seriously degraded their capabilities
b) in Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen and Saudi and Pakistan, we have literally killed THOUSANDS of their most capable agents, and they are having a hard time replacing/training them, with no “safe havens” anymore..
c) that the Iraq War, has in fact, caused them to concentrate for the past 4 years, more on the “Near Jihad”, vice the “Far Jihad”
d) they want to hit us with a more Spectacular Attack than 9/11, the next time, and for that reason, they’ve kind of backed off a bit.
e) and we have no idea, how long they will continue to do that, and what they have in the “works”; other than they WILL attack us again, and they only have to be succesful ONCE!
I hope that answers your questions; I don’ expect to Change your mind on anything, and thus am not trying.
But, I did try to give you honest answers; the rest is up to you!
1:40 pm
Also, Let me know if you have any more questions?
4:01 pm
Thanks, Dale in Atlanta:
I appreciate the excellent and informative responses to my questions. I certainly agree that the plots stopped so far (publically) have been very amateurish, and most likely any trained terrorist’s plots are silenced for national security reasons. Common ground there.
We may not agree on the Iraq War (I have always thought those resources should have gone toward border security, intelligence, and port security instead of overthrowing a dictator that will inevitably be replaced by another), but I suspect we agree that very much more needs to be done to fight terrorism and increase our own security.
And just so you know, your ideas DO make me think and sometimes reconsider my own.
7:34 pm
ed: we many never agree on the Iraq War, but your other comments are germane as well, and taken as you meant them.
R/dale
10:53 pm
The fact that there have been three attempted attacks in the last 24 hours doesn’t matter. One might wonder how many attacks or attempted attacks it would take before some of our lefty friends would deem it appropriate and give us permission to glance at the news and find out what the hell is going on without accusing us of being children cowering against the darkness.
I wonder how many attacks it will take before President Bush stops visiting Imams and then telling us how peaceful Islam is…1300 years of history says he is full of crap.
The “miracle†is not that 19 Jihadis, with a $500,000 budget, and box-cutters murdered 3000 people, and toppled the WTC; the actual “miracle†is that it DIDN’T HAPPEN BEFORE, and even more puzzling, HASN’T HAPPENED SINCE!
I don’t for the life of me, know why Al Qaeda/Hezbollah, have NOT started a Homicide Bomber/Carbomb campaign in this country
Why attack? They are achieving their goals without attacking. Europe is collapsing into Sharia, we are bending over farther and farther backwards to accomadate them. Perhaps they have come to the correct conclusion that another attack will merely enrage us and perhaps cause us to actually get serious about winning the wars of the ME. We can you know…at a moments notice with the will of our Grandfathers nearly all the wars in the ME could be over in days. It will take a lot of killing but we have the means…we just don’t have the will.
If the jihadists strike us hard and kill thousands this time Bush won’t be able to moderate our rage.
3:28 am
“So, again, I would propose, that the ONLY reasons we’ve haven’t been hit with the “big oneâ€, just yet is because:”
Nice posts. There is one other theory on why the US hasn’t been attacked while the UK, Spain, etc, etc have.
This is the idea that the 911 attacks were more of a matador’s cape than a real attempt to defeat the US. Under this theory, Bin Laden et al wanted the US to get bogged down in a nasty guerilla war in Afghanistan. Following this theory they were rudely surprised when the US fought the Afghan war the right way, by empowering local chiefs to fight the war for us, by having a light footprint in country, and by mainly acting as a financier. Unfortunately for us, since then, we have embarked on a mission to fundamentally change Afghanistan which is, I would estimate, doomed to fail. We would have been better off to have left the warlords in charge and let them run the country how they wanted, but there we are.
Of course, if Bin Laden’s motive was to bog the US down in an unpopular war with impossible goals in a Muslim country, draining away cash and reputation then the invasion of Iraq would be his wildest dream.
So one possible explaination for the lack of US attacks is that they are simply not needed. The US is acting as he wants it to, and further attacks would not achieve anything. It also explains the pre-US election message of support for Kerry, since Bin Laden is a thouroughly modern communicator he must have known that this would only aid Bush, which would be what was wanted, a direct approach and “No surrender” attitude.
Of course this is all speculation.
9:56 am
Pierre: I myself have thought of what you suggested before, and I do think, it needs to be added as a “possibility” to any Complete list!
Drongo: we have a tendancy to turn our enemy-du-jour into the 10ft Tall Invincible superman; we did it with the Germans, then the Soviets, and there has been a Media and Critic attempt to do it with Al Qaeda.
I say this because, the scenario you outline is very Machiavellian, and frankly, me personally, I don’t think they are that smart, or that clever, to work that out in Advance!
Now, depending upon your personal “take” on the Iraq and/or Afghan Wars, it may be an unintended consequence AFTERWARDS, but I personally don’t believe that they “planned” it!
12:57 am
fast cash loan uk…
ampoule perishable expunges …
4:08 pm
pocker odds table preflop…
stoutly refrigerator McMillan slops sinking bridled:...