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	<title>Comments on: A SMOKER&#8217;S LAMENT</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/</link>
	<description>Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 22:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike Trainor</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-877209</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Trainor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-877209</guid>
		<description>Spoken like an addict.

You take a product that damages America.  Smokers cost more in health care, they addict American children, and they damage our health and comfort.  You compare that product to FOODS you don't like to smell.

Your right to swing your fist stops short of my nose.  Why not carcinogens?  I have no objection to banning it but frankly, smokers owe the people's life you have degraded far more than you've paid.

If your brain was not fogged by your addiction, you'd realize that you are being given a choice.  Rise above your addiction and ban it from your own life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spoken like an addict.</p>
<p>You take a product that damages America.  Smokers cost more in health care, they addict American children, and they damage our health and comfort.  You compare that product to FOODS you don&#8217;t like to smell.</p>
<p>Your right to swing your fist stops short of my nose.  Why not carcinogens?  I have no objection to banning it but frankly, smokers owe the people&#8217;s life you have degraded far more than you&#8217;ve paid.</p>
<p>If your brain was not fogged by your addiction, you&#8217;d realize that you are being given a choice.  Rise above your addiction and ban it from your own life.</p>
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		<title>By: leucanthemum b</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-867161</link>
		<dc:creator>leucanthemum b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-867161</guid>
		<description>I thought just living in Illinois guaranteed unfair, unjustified taxes to pay for pointless garbage while real education and other necessities tanked.  Was I mistaken?  

I don't smoke, but if you want, I have friends in Iowa -- and one just across the river from Burlington, over here in IL -- who would pick up a carton or three for me if I asked....  Just say the word. ;-) 


And, oh yeah: can we ban Brussels Sprouts while we're at it?   Those things smell *nasty* even when they're just growing in the fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought just living in Illinois guaranteed unfair, unjustified taxes to pay for pointless garbage while real education and other necessities tanked.  Was I mistaken?  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t smoke, but if you want, I have friends in Iowa &#8212; and one just across the river from Burlington, over here in IL &#8212; who would pick up a carton or three for me if I asked&#8230;.  Just say the word. <img src='http://rightwingnuthouse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And, oh yeah: can we ban Brussels Sprouts while we&#8217;re at it?   Those things smell *nasty* even when they&#8217;re just growing in the fields.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-866878</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-866878</guid>
		<description>Right on with this post.  These "sin taxes" are the horrifying offspring wrought from busy bodies who feel it is their responsibility to mind everyone else's business married to greedy politicians who will use any excuse to take more money.  Some of the former are commenting right on this page.

The government needs less, not more money.  I enjoy reading how people on here are all for these types of draconian measures becasue it no longer impacts them.  Just wait until they start yanking up the taxes on potato chips and cheeseburgers.  We'll see how the minds change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on with this post.  These &#8220;sin taxes&#8221; are the horrifying offspring wrought from busy bodies who feel it is their responsibility to mind everyone else&#8217;s business married to greedy politicians who will use any excuse to take more money.  Some of the former are commenting right on this page.</p>
<p>The government needs less, not more money.  I enjoy reading how people on here are all for these types of draconian measures becasue it no longer impacts them.  Just wait until they start yanking up the taxes on potato chips and cheeseburgers.  We&#8217;ll see how the minds change.</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle Miller</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-866188</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-866188</guid>
		<description>Testify brother!  I have been smoking since the age of 14 (and was a competitive athlete when I took up the habit - how's that for intelligence) and I damned well enjoy it.  I have cut my consumption back to about 3-4 packs maximum per week and as far as I'm concerned, as long as I don't force my secondhand smoke on anyone - it's my damned choice!  Taxing me into the ground isn't going to change my mind or my consumption.  In fact, right around the time the cost of a pack of cigarettes passed $5 in Ohio, I moved to Virginia where I pay $3.82 per the same pack!

What excessive and discriminatory taxation WILL do is endanger your re-election!  The government is sticking its nose into our lives far too often and too deeply.  I believe that less government is required, not more!  I don't need a nanny.  I'm 65 years old and will actively campaign for the removal of office of all you nosey parkers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Testify brother!  I have been smoking since the age of 14 (and was a competitive athlete when I took up the habit - how&#8217;s that for intelligence) and I damned well enjoy it.  I have cut my consumption back to about 3-4 packs maximum per week and as far as I&#8217;m concerned, as long as I don&#8217;t force my secondhand smoke on anyone - it&#8217;s my damned choice!  Taxing me into the ground isn&#8217;t going to change my mind or my consumption.  In fact, right around the time the cost of a pack of cigarettes passed $5 in Ohio, I moved to Virginia where I pay $3.82 per the same pack!</p>
<p>What excessive and discriminatory taxation WILL do is endanger your re-election!  The government is sticking its nose into our lives far too often and too deeply.  I believe that less government is required, not more!  I don&#8217;t need a nanny.  I&#8217;m 65 years old and will actively campaign for the removal of office of all you nosey parkers!</p>
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		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-864374</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-864374</guid>
		<description>This time Rick is 100% correct.  Those anti-smoking bunnies that have the love of tobacco tax revenue, yet the moment a nickel beer tax is proposed have the opposite self righteousness.  This tax is only proposed because the demand for this product is near term inelastic, because the consumers are addicts and the revenue doesn't come out of your pockets for programs you are not willing to pay for.  Government could collect an enormous amount of revenue if we were to add $1.00 tax per gallon of gasoline, don't we need to change our driving behavior?  Doesn't second hand auto emissions cause many health related afflictions?  I'll sit in my garage with Rick and 5 of his smoking friends for an hour, but I certainly wouldn't with your car running.  Those of you that gave us so many comments on health are hypocrites because you all drive cars and purchase many products that have second hand health issues.  We could easily eradicate cigaret smoking in the United States, start a date certain that each year the legal age to smoke is raised by one year.  People like Rick would be able to legally smoke until they die so the chance of a black market would not exist.  No true conservative can agree with these types of taxes.  This is a tax, it is unfairly burdened and used to con the public to broaden spending.  

When I was a smoker, years ago my country club began to restrict smoking.  It didn't take long for the board to discover that unlike government, they don't have exclusive power.  30% of a membership that smokes is quite a large loss of dues.  They made accommodations and all were happy.   Like the tax on cigarets, it is amazing how quickly non-smokers faced with massive loss of revenue will accommodate when a burden would fall upon them.  That is what Rick is talking about, liberal self interest should not give conservatives cover.  We should stand against this bogus tax burden and force liberals to ban tobacco or offer my policy for eradication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time Rick is 100% correct.  Those anti-smoking bunnies that have the love of tobacco tax revenue, yet the moment a nickel beer tax is proposed have the opposite self righteousness.  This tax is only proposed because the demand for this product is near term inelastic, because the consumers are addicts and the revenue doesn&#8217;t come out of your pockets for programs you are not willing to pay for.  Government could collect an enormous amount of revenue if we were to add $1.00 tax per gallon of gasoline, don&#8217;t we need to change our driving behavior?  Doesn&#8217;t second hand auto emissions cause many health related afflictions?  I&#8217;ll sit in my garage with Rick and 5 of his smoking friends for an hour, but I certainly wouldn&#8217;t with your car running.  Those of you that gave us so many comments on health are hypocrites because you all drive cars and purchase many products that have second hand health issues.  We could easily eradicate cigaret smoking in the United States, start a date certain that each year the legal age to smoke is raised by one year.  People like Rick would be able to legally smoke until they die so the chance of a black market would not exist.  No true conservative can agree with these types of taxes.  This is a tax, it is unfairly burdened and used to con the public to broaden spending.  </p>
<p>When I was a smoker, years ago my country club began to restrict smoking.  It didn&#8217;t take long for the board to discover that unlike government, they don&#8217;t have exclusive power.  30% of a membership that smokes is quite a large loss of dues.  They made accommodations and all were happy.   Like the tax on cigarets, it is amazing how quickly non-smokers faced with massive loss of revenue will accommodate when a burden would fall upon them.  That is what Rick is talking about, liberal self interest should not give conservatives cover.  We should stand against this bogus tax burden and force liberals to ban tobacco or offer my policy for eradication.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-863932</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-863932</guid>
		<description>Rick,

Could I have permission to reprint this with attribution on cigardiary.com?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick,</p>
<p>Could I have permission to reprint this with attribution on cigardiary.com?</p>
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		<title>By: tarheel</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-863623</link>
		<dc:creator>tarheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-863623</guid>
		<description>the debate should really be about regressive taxes.  this is not about cunsupmtion taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the debate should really be about regressive taxes.  this is not about cunsupmtion taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: retire05</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-863607</link>
		<dc:creator>retire05</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-863607</guid>
		<description>Is smoking a pack of cigaretts a greater "sin" than consuming a quart of White Horse?  Or eating two Big Macs with large fries?  The tax on cigarettes, as with alcohol is a "sin" tax.  So some politician decided what "sin" we are permitted to engage in freely [two Big Macs] and what sin we have to be punished through our wallets for.  Is the smoker who developes a hacking cough a greater sinner than the 340 lb. man who eats fast/junk food everyday contributing to his heart/lung/et al problems?  
What is the tax on a quart of White Horse?  Is the state tax $1.00 a bottle?  Is the federal tax greater?  What percentage of the cost of alcohol is tax compared to the percentage of the cost of a pack of cigarettes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is smoking a pack of cigaretts a greater &#8220;sin&#8221; than consuming a quart of White Horse?  Or eating two Big Macs with large fries?  The tax on cigarettes, as with alcohol is a &#8220;sin&#8221; tax.  So some politician decided what &#8220;sin&#8221; we are permitted to engage in freely [two Big Macs] and what sin we have to be punished through our wallets for.  Is the smoker who developes a hacking cough a greater sinner than the 340 lb. man who eats fast/junk food everyday contributing to his heart/lung/et al problems?<br />
What is the tax on a quart of White Horse?  Is the state tax $1.00 a bottle?  Is the federal tax greater?  What percentage of the cost of alcohol is tax compared to the percentage of the cost of a pack of cigarettes?</p>
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		<title>By: TonyR</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-863514</link>
		<dc:creator>TonyR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-863514</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree that it should be banned entirely. Everyone knows how dangerous it is to smoke and most sensible people who smoke have found a way to quit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree that it should be banned entirely. Everyone knows how dangerous it is to smoke and most sensible people who smoke have found a way to quit.</p>
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		<title>By: Transplanted Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-863471</link>
		<dc:creator>Transplanted Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/22/a-smokers-lament/#comment-863471</guid>
		<description>Let me try this again.  It's not that I love government intervening in people's personal choices, it's that I accept that the United States isn't a libertarian utopia and was never intended to be one.

Consumption taxes have long been used to simultaneously generate revenue for the government and to discourage use of particular substances.  I invoke the Founders to demonstrate that this is as appropriate a use of the government's taxation power as an import duty.  I cited before to Hamilton, but consider also that George Washington (successfully) led troops into battle to preserve the government's right to tax whiskey.  Come to think of it, the government STILL taxes whiskey more than it does other kinds of things we might consume.

Since I like to have a drink now and then, I too am a "victim" of this "tax-but-not-ban" policy, even though I'm not a smoker. But you won't hear me complaining that I pay more taxes on my booze than I do on my bananas.  There are two reasons for this.

First, even if, in theory, we were to accept that the government properly has no power to tax something consumable but does have the power to ban it instead, that doesn't mean that it's a good policy to ban a consumable substance.  We already tried that once.  Prohibition demonstrated why (and I believe the War on Drugs again demonstrates why) banning a substance is bad social policy.

Second, I don't accept your argument that the government lacks power to tax a particular substance, or the corollary argument that even if it can, it shouldn't.  Taxes on discretionary, consumable items are an effective blend of fiscal and social policy and they are well within the legitimate power of the government.  I may not particularly like it, especially when I'm the one targeted to pay the tax, but then again I don't like paying income taxes either but I still do that.

Be realistic -- a ban wouldn't stop you from smoking.  But it would drive you to buy your cigarettes from a street dealer, just as if you were a crackhead, and with all the same risks the crackhead faces.

Your complaint should not be that there are special taxes on cigarettes.  It's better addressed to the amount of the tax.  Sirius' argument -- if taxes on cigarettes become insanely high then a black market will form just as if there were prohibition -- is a much stronger one than the argument than "ban it, don't tax it."  But a ban would guarantee that such a black market would form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me try this again.  It&#8217;s not that I love government intervening in people&#8217;s personal choices, it&#8217;s that I accept that the United States isn&#8217;t a libertarian utopia and was never intended to be one.</p>
<p>Consumption taxes have long been used to simultaneously generate revenue for the government and to discourage use of particular substances.  I invoke the Founders to demonstrate that this is as appropriate a use of the government&#8217;s taxation power as an import duty.  I cited before to Hamilton, but consider also that George Washington (successfully) led troops into battle to preserve the government&#8217;s right to tax whiskey.  Come to think of it, the government STILL taxes whiskey more than it does other kinds of things we might consume.</p>
<p>Since I like to have a drink now and then, I too am a &#8220;victim&#8221; of this &#8220;tax-but-not-ban&#8221; policy, even though I&#8217;m not a smoker. But you won&#8217;t hear me complaining that I pay more taxes on my booze than I do on my bananas.  There are two reasons for this.</p>
<p>First, even if, in theory, we were to accept that the government properly has no power to tax something consumable but does have the power to ban it instead, that doesn&#8217;t mean that it&#8217;s a good policy to ban a consumable substance.  We already tried that once.  Prohibition demonstrated why (and I believe the War on Drugs again demonstrates why) banning a substance is bad social policy.</p>
<p>Second, I don&#8217;t accept your argument that the government lacks power to tax a particular substance, or the corollary argument that even if it can, it shouldn&#8217;t.  Taxes on discretionary, consumable items are an effective blend of fiscal and social policy and they are well within the legitimate power of the government.  I may not particularly like it, especially when I&#8217;m the one targeted to pay the tax, but then again I don&#8217;t like paying income taxes either but I still do that.</p>
<p>Be realistic &#8212; a ban wouldn&#8217;t stop you from smoking.  But it would drive you to buy your cigarettes from a street dealer, just as if you were a crackhead, and with all the same risks the crackhead faces.</p>
<p>Your complaint should not be that there are special taxes on cigarettes.  It&#8217;s better addressed to the amount of the tax.  Sirius&#8217; argument &#8212; if taxes on cigarettes become insanely high then a black market will form just as if there were prohibition &#8212; is a much stronger one than the argument than &#8220;ban it, don&#8217;t tax it.&#8221;  But a ban would guarantee that such a black market would form.</p>
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