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	<title>Comments on: IS CAPITALISM AND THE CONSERVATIVE RATIONALE FOR IT DEAD?</title>
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	<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/</link>
	<description>Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2026 10:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 2 cents</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1387752</link>
		<dc:creator>2 cents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1387752</guid>
		<description>What about a Nhilistic view?  As the world mass media seems to be cheerleading an economic collapse (economic chickens coming home to roost), I for one welcome it.  Proportionally, if China is the world's workshop then the US is the world's customer.

Let the US ecomony "collapse" such that consumers buckle down, start saving, refuse to buy a new car from Japan every 1.4 years, put off or avoid buying the tons of junk from China year after year after year.  Christ, even the statisticaly "poor" American families have more living space, a vehicle (sometimes two), home PC, colour flat screen etc etc.  This is the "poor" segment of socienty mind you!  That is what keeps Chinese workers employed and by extension, German and Italian workers who supply them with industrial machine parts, etc etc.

I say let the world discover the reality of an evil, unilateral, imperialistic so-called hyperpower who no longer spends beyond it's means.  I will glady accept 9% unemployment in the US if it exposes the leftist EU politicians to the wrath of thier coddled workers who no longer have "asshole" American customers.

In a worldwide economic meltdown, the first and fastest to recover will be the US, followed by similarly structured free-market ecomonies.  Followed many many painfull years (yeepee!) later by Europe, China and then decades later by the entire Middle East.

Let's see how the worldviews of the French shift when there's no wine for thier children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about a Nhilistic view?  As the world mass media seems to be cheerleading an economic collapse (economic chickens coming home to roost), I for one welcome it.  Proportionally, if China is the world&#8217;s workshop then the US is the world&#8217;s customer.</p>
<p>Let the US ecomony &#8220;collapse&#8221; such that consumers buckle down, start saving, refuse to buy a new car from Japan every 1.4 years, put off or avoid buying the tons of junk from China year after year after year.  Christ, even the statisticaly &#8220;poor&#8221; American families have more living space, a vehicle (sometimes two), home PC, colour flat screen etc etc.  This is the &#8220;poor&#8221; segment of socienty mind you!  That is what keeps Chinese workers employed and by extension, German and Italian workers who supply them with industrial machine parts, etc etc.</p>
<p>I say let the world discover the reality of an evil, unilateral, imperialistic so-called hyperpower who no longer spends beyond it&#8217;s means.  I will glady accept 9% unemployment in the US if it exposes the leftist EU politicians to the wrath of thier coddled workers who no longer have &#8220;asshole&#8221; American customers.</p>
<p>In a worldwide economic meltdown, the first and fastest to recover will be the US, followed by similarly structured free-market ecomonies.  Followed many many painfull years (yeepee!) later by Europe, China and then decades later by the entire Middle East.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see how the worldviews of the French shift when there&#8217;s no wine for thier children.</p>
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		<title>By: tHePeOPle</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1386886</link>
		<dc:creator>tHePeOPle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1386886</guid>
		<description>What!? No Wall Street office!? No home in the Hamptons!? Well, there goes all your street cred right out the window.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What!? No Wall Street office!? No home in the Hamptons!? Well, there goes all your street cred right out the window.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry your brother</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1386244</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry your brother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1386244</guid>
		<description>I think the rationale behind the 90% limit is that, because they are AAA rated and reasonably assured of paying back principal and interest on a timely basis, their value should not fluctuate too widely (think of U.S. government bonds).  In "normal" times (whatever that means) this may be true, but as these securities got more complex, small changes in interest rates caused huge negative changes in value (bond values move in the opposite dirction of interest rates--it's the way the math works out). You can see this reasoning in the fact that with stocks, for example, you can only borrow up to 70-75% of their value (depending on if their are big or small companies). Stocks tend to fluctuate in value more (witness the last couple of months in the stock market) and they hold a subordinate position for claims on a company's assets if it goes bankrupt (subordinate to bank loans and bond holders); with that kind of risk, lenders are less interested in lending money on those securities.  

I agree that the 90% rule tempts people to do things they shouldn't.  Usually, you could think of some economic reason to the rule, but I can't see why anyone would try to double their investment, half with leverage.  But then, I don't work on Wall Street and have a home in the Hamptons, so what do I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the rationale behind the 90% limit is that, because they are AAA rated and reasonably assured of paying back principal and interest on a timely basis, their value should not fluctuate too widely (think of U.S. government bonds).  In &#8220;normal&#8221; times (whatever that means) this may be true, but as these securities got more complex, small changes in interest rates caused huge negative changes in value (bond values move in the opposite dirction of interest rates&#8211;it&#8217;s the way the math works out). You can see this reasoning in the fact that with stocks, for example, you can only borrow up to 70-75% of their value (depending on if their are big or small companies). Stocks tend to fluctuate in value more (witness the last couple of months in the stock market) and they hold a subordinate position for claims on a company&#8217;s assets if it goes bankrupt (subordinate to bank loans and bond holders); with that kind of risk, lenders are less interested in lending money on those securities.  </p>
<p>I agree that the 90% rule tempts people to do things they shouldn&#8217;t.  Usually, you could think of some economic reason to the rule, but I can&#8217;t see why anyone would try to double their investment, half with leverage.  But then, I don&#8217;t work on Wall Street and have a home in the Hamptons, so what do I know.</p>
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		<title>By: tHePeOPle</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385500</link>
		<dc:creator>tHePeOPle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385500</guid>
		<description>Larry,

What is the reason for the 90% cap? Do you know why it isn't lower? It seems to promote financial mischief almost by design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>What is the reason for the 90% cap? Do you know why it isn&#8217;t lower? It seems to promote financial mischief almost by design.</p>
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		<title>By: Bosco</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385167</link>
		<dc:creator>Bosco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385167</guid>
		<description>Rick, I hate to send traffic to Kevin Drum, but he asked a question at 1:03pm on 3/17/08 on his blog, where he confesses his ignorance of the debt and liquidity crisis.  Some of his usual knuckleheads respond, but there are some really useful comments by a number of people, including NY Math Teacher.

Check it out

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/


&lt;em&gt;Excellent. See also my brother's comment above. He's in the business of managing funds so he knows of what he speaks.

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, I hate to send traffic to Kevin Drum, but he asked a question at 1:03pm on 3/17/08 on his blog, where he confesses his ignorance of the debt and liquidity crisis.  Some of his usual knuckleheads respond, but there are some really useful comments by a number of people, including NY Math Teacher.</p>
<p>Check it out</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/</a></p>
<p><em>Excellent. See also my brother&#8217;s comment above. He&#8217;s in the business of managing funds so he knows of what he speaks.</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Larry your brother</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385153</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry your brother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385153</guid>
		<description>The real problem is a typically American phenomenon: We took a good idea and drove it into the ground.  Making loans to people, packaging them up, and selling them to investors is what has made home ownership possible for more people over the last 30 years or so.  The idea is that, if you group a number of loans together with similar characteristics (region, credit profile, interest rate, etc.) you may have some failed loans but the vast majority (more than 95%) will be repaid on time; you can see this pattern over time.  While it gets a little worse during times of economic downturns, it is not dramatically different.

So what do we do with such a simple idea?  We take those packages, slice and dice them into unrecognizable pieces, and sell them (collecting a fee in the process).  No one really understands what they own, or what effect a slowing economy or rising interst rates (which started last summer) will have on asset values.  And we've seen this movie before--the credit crisis of 1994 came about for almost exactly the same reasons.  

We probably could have survived if this was all that was happening (as we did in 1994 without any huge government intervention as I recall).  But the really neat part about these sliced and diced packages is that they were given a AAA rating by the rating agencies (side note: why is Congress spending time and effort trying to decide if Roger Clemens took steroids when we should be asking why the rating agencies were asleep at the wheel?) That AAA rating enabled owners to borrow up to 90% of the value of the investments and--guess what?--buy more!  The problem comes when, after borrowing that money, if the assets go down in value, the banks require you put up more collateral.  Which is what's been happening since last summer.  The Carlyle Group took $1 billion and turned it into $22 billion, which has now all disappeared.  Again, we've seen this movie before--it ran in the 1998 credit crisis with Long Term Capital Management almost dragging down the financial system.

So the moral of this story is not the investment itself.  It probably is not even the financial engineering some bright whiz kid came up with to create some of these toxic investments.  The real killer is leverage (borrowing against the asset to buy more of it).  Leverage creates outsize returns if it works, but wreaks havoc if it doesn't.  The solution?  Restrict the amount of money that can be borrowed against assets.  Instead of borrowing 90% against assets like this, restrict it to 50% or 60%.  The Fed has the power/authority to do this.  It may not help totally avoid the problem, but it should reduce the impact.


&lt;em&gt;That's the best explanation of how these securities came into being that I've read to date. Thanks, brother.

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real problem is a typically American phenomenon: We took a good idea and drove it into the ground.  Making loans to people, packaging them up, and selling them to investors is what has made home ownership possible for more people over the last 30 years or so.  The idea is that, if you group a number of loans together with similar characteristics (region, credit profile, interest rate, etc.) you may have some failed loans but the vast majority (more than 95%) will be repaid on time; you can see this pattern over time.  While it gets a little worse during times of economic downturns, it is not dramatically different.</p>
<p>So what do we do with such a simple idea?  We take those packages, slice and dice them into unrecognizable pieces, and sell them (collecting a fee in the process).  No one really understands what they own, or what effect a slowing economy or rising interst rates (which started last summer) will have on asset values.  And we&#8217;ve seen this movie before&#8211;the credit crisis of 1994 came about for almost exactly the same reasons.  </p>
<p>We probably could have survived if this was all that was happening (as we did in 1994 without any huge government intervention as I recall).  But the really neat part about these sliced and diced packages is that they were given a AAA rating by the rating agencies (side note: why is Congress spending time and effort trying to decide if Roger Clemens took steroids when we should be asking why the rating agencies were asleep at the wheel?) That AAA rating enabled owners to borrow up to 90% of the value of the investments and&#8211;guess what?&#8211;buy more!  The problem comes when, after borrowing that money, if the assets go down in value, the banks require you put up more collateral.  Which is what&#8217;s been happening since last summer.  The Carlyle Group took $1 billion and turned it into $22 billion, which has now all disappeared.  Again, we&#8217;ve seen this movie before&#8211;it ran in the 1998 credit crisis with Long Term Capital Management almost dragging down the financial system.</p>
<p>So the moral of this story is not the investment itself.  It probably is not even the financial engineering some bright whiz kid came up with to create some of these toxic investments.  The real killer is leverage (borrowing against the asset to buy more of it).  Leverage creates outsize returns if it works, but wreaks havoc if it doesn&#8217;t.  The solution?  Restrict the amount of money that can be borrowed against assets.  Instead of borrowing 90% against assets like this, restrict it to 50% or 60%.  The Fed has the power/authority to do this.  It may not help totally avoid the problem, but it should reduce the impact.</p>
<p><em>That&#8217;s the best explanation of how these securities came into being that I&#8217;ve read to date. Thanks, brother.</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: No Runny Eggs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Morning Scramble - 3/18/2008</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385124</link>
		<dc:creator>No Runny Eggs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Morning Scramble - 3/18/2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385124</guid>
		<description>[...] - James Wigderson hates yard signs with a passion. - Why? Uncle Fred found a yard sign without the &#8220;paid for by&#8221; text. - Weasel Zippers found some sanity in Jolly Old England as female Islamic doctors no longer can use their religion to hide behind their veils - Kevin Fischer points out the inanity of Jim &#8220;Craps&#8221; Doyle&#8217;s (WEAC/Potawatomi-For Sale) position that in order to fix potholes, we have to raid the transportation fund that is designated to, among other things, fix potholes. - Tom McMahon shows off the best Pez dispenser evah (at least if you&#8217;re a guy). - Ragnar Danneskjold, R.I.N.O. Hunter, finds out John McCain still doesn&#8217;t get it on illegal immigration. - Jim Geraghty catches Hillary Clinton in a fish story. - Mark McNally breaks out in song on the Obama/Wright mess. - Mike points us to a great piece by Shelby Steele on the Obama/Wright mess. - Continuing on the Obama theme, Bruce has a few questions. - Erick at RedState has the phrase of the day - Demasochist Party. - The American Pundit and Gabriel Malor both report on a 85-year-old story of melting Arctic ice. Yep, Gorebal Warming&#8217;s been around that long. - Speaking of Gorebal Warming, Dean points out that bacteria pump out more carbon than we do. - Warner Todd Huston at Stop the ACLU has some good news on the &#8220;Fairness&#8221; Doctrine, at least for the next 10 months. - Alan Steinberg has the headline of the day - &#8220;Prices Going Up&#8230; Confidence in Government Going Down&#8221;. - Silent E is bucking for a fill-in gig for WSJ&#8217;s Best of the Web with his exposing of the Dumb Headline of the Day. - See-Dubya has some not-so-breaking news on the lack of conservatives in the LeftStreamMedia. - There&#8217;s so many places to choose from for news on freshly-minted New York Governor David Paterson&#8217;s admission that he cheated on his wife (and that she cheated on him), but I&#8217;ll go with Slublog&#8217;s fingering of the water supply in Albany. Also, don&#8217;t miss the comments that flashy dug up. - Speaking of New York, JammieWearingFool relays a report that the former governor was headed toward Swimmer territory in the alcohol department. - Skinbad does the math on Elliot Spitzer and Paul McCartney, and finds that it pays to pay by the day. - Rick Esenberg catches up on the flurry of ads in the Supreme Court race. - Rick Moran asks whether capitalism and hence conservatism is dead. - William Teach brings news that the UN doesn&#8217;t know what&#8217;s in its own &#8220;Universal Declaration of Human Rights&#8221;. - Jib questions the wisdom of touting plans to be number two when by the time the structure in question is built, it will be no better than number four. - You know sports doping is bad when Janet Evans catches a story on doping in German billiards. - Since the idiots at Fox won&#8217;t have a new season of &#8220;24&#8243; until next January, the folks at Blogs4Bauer continue their strike replacement episodes with Episode 11.     &#160; [link] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] - James Wigderson hates yard signs with a passion. - Why? Uncle Fred found a yard sign without the &#8220;paid for by&#8221; text. - Weasel Zippers found some sanity in Jolly Old England as female Islamic doctors no longer can use their religion to hide behind their veils - Kevin Fischer points out the inanity of Jim &#8220;Craps&#8221; Doyle&#8217;s (WEAC/Potawatomi-For Sale) position that in order to fix potholes, we have to raid the transportation fund that is designated to, among other things, fix potholes. - Tom McMahon shows off the best Pez dispenser evah (at least if you&#8217;re a guy). - Ragnar Danneskjold, R.I.N.O. Hunter, finds out John McCain still doesn&#8217;t get it on illegal immigration. - Jim Geraghty catches Hillary Clinton in a fish story. - Mark McNally breaks out in song on the Obama/Wright mess. - Mike points us to a great piece by Shelby Steele on the Obama/Wright mess. - Continuing on the Obama theme, Bruce has a few questions. - Erick at RedState has the phrase of the day - Demasochist Party. - The American Pundit and Gabriel Malor both report on a 85-year-old story of melting Arctic ice. Yep, Gorebal Warming&#8217;s been around that long. - Speaking of Gorebal Warming, Dean points out that bacteria pump out more carbon than we do. - Warner Todd Huston at Stop the ACLU has some good news on the &#8220;Fairness&#8221; Doctrine, at least for the next 10 months. - Alan Steinberg has the headline of the day - &#8220;Prices Going Up&#8230; Confidence in Government Going Down&#8221;. - Silent E is bucking for a fill-in gig for WSJ&#8217;s Best of the Web with his exposing of the Dumb Headline of the Day. - See-Dubya has some not-so-breaking news on the lack of conservatives in the LeftStreamMedia. - There&#8217;s so many places to choose from for news on freshly-minted New York Governor David Paterson&#8217;s admission that he cheated on his wife (and that she cheated on him), but I&#8217;ll go with Slublog&#8217;s fingering of the water supply in Albany. Also, don&#8217;t miss the comments that flashy dug up. - Speaking of New York, JammieWearingFool relays a report that the former governor was headed toward Swimmer territory in the alcohol department. - Skinbad does the math on Elliot Spitzer and Paul McCartney, and finds that it pays to pay by the day. - Rick Esenberg catches up on the flurry of ads in the Supreme Court race. - Rick Moran asks whether capitalism and hence conservatism is dead. - William Teach brings news that the UN doesn&#8217;t know what&#8217;s in its own &#8220;Universal Declaration of Human Rights&#8221;. - Jib questions the wisdom of touting plans to be number two when by the time the structure in question is built, it will be no better than number four. - You know sports doping is bad when Janet Evans catches a story on doping in German billiards. - Since the idiots at Fox won&#8217;t have a new season of &#8220;24&#8243; until next January, the folks at Blogs4Bauer continue their strike replacement episodes with Episode 11.     &nbsp; [link] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dbheb</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385096</link>
		<dc:creator>Dbheb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385096</guid>
		<description>Don't know why the first comment didn't make it.

I wanted to add the greedy lenders and greedy brokers and greedy buyers, fed by the help of the US Gov't and FED policies led to this unsavory situation.

The reckless buyers are now being bailed out at the expense of prudent buyers and they are also bailing out Wall Street.

Hollywood couldn't write this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know why the first comment didn&#8217;t make it.</p>
<p>I wanted to add the greedy lenders and greedy brokers and greedy buyers, fed by the help of the US Gov&#8217;t and FED policies led to this unsavory situation.</p>
<p>The reckless buyers are now being bailed out at the expense of prudent buyers and they are also bailing out Wall Street.</p>
<p>Hollywood couldn&#8217;t write this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Dbheb</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385088</link>
		<dc:creator>Dbheb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385088</guid>
		<description>&#62;&#62;Junk Science Skeptic Said:
5:43 pm </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Junk Science Skeptic Said:<br />
5:43 pm</p>
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		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-1385079</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/03/17/is-capitalism-and-the-conservative-rationale-for-it-dead/#comment-1385079</guid>
		<description>Unfettered capitalism doesn't work because it leads to concentration, monopoly.  We would all agree that the same is true for government monopoly.  We have developed a pretty good balance with our anti-trust free enterprise system.  Not pure for the Ayan Rand types, but has shown for the long run stability.  As John Nash would say, that way we all get laid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfettered capitalism doesn&#8217;t work because it leads to concentration, monopoly.  We would all agree that the same is true for government monopoly.  We have developed a pretty good balance with our anti-trust free enterprise system.  Not pure for the Ayan Rand types, but has shown for the long run stability.  As John Nash would say, that way we all get laid.</p>
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