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	<title>Comments on: FAITH OF OUR FATHERS</title>
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	<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/</link>
	<description>Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 08:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-2/#comment-1703194</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1703194</guid>
		<description>Have you heard the new USSA National Anthem?

Comrades!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you heard the new USSA National Anthem?</p>
<p>Comrades!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4</a></p>
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		<title>By: Halffasthero</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-2/#comment-1660029</link>
		<dc:creator>Halffasthero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1660029</guid>
		<description>8:22 a.m.
&lt;blockquote&gt;We have abandoned ... respect for our political opponents &lt;/blockquote&gt;

sometime after 10:18 p.m.
&lt;blockquote&gt; Bashing someone for being an idiot hurt your feelings, asshole? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It must be tomorrow already.

Anyway, I never said you called anyone a traitor. I reread my post and think I worded it correctly. I trust you occasionally watched tv or listened to the radio once in a while? Correct me if I am wrong but isn't part of the reason for your post about the political discourse that has allowed words like this to be thrown around like candy? 

Your original post was brilliant. I will leave it at that.

Yours,
     "Sonny"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8:22 a.m.</p>
<blockquote><p>We have abandoned &#8230; respect for our political opponents </p></blockquote>
<p>sometime after 10:18 p.m.</p>
<blockquote><p> Bashing someone for being an idiot hurt your feelings, asshole? </p></blockquote>
<p>It must be tomorrow already.</p>
<p>Anyway, I never said you called anyone a traitor. I reread my post and think I worded it correctly. I trust you occasionally watched tv or listened to the radio once in a while? Correct me if I am wrong but isn&#8217;t part of the reason for your post about the political discourse that has allowed words like this to be thrown around like candy? </p>
<p>Your original post was brilliant. I will leave it at that.</p>
<p>Yours,<br />
     &#8220;Sonny&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1659553</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1659553</guid>
		<description>You write what I want to write and what I think. This is exactly spot on. We are in a helluv a mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write what I want to write and what I think. This is exactly spot on. We are in a helluv a mess.</p>
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		<title>By: Halffasthero</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658730</link>
		<dc:creator>Halffasthero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658730</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;We have been careless and stupid in choosing our leaders. We have been lax in holding them accountable. &lt;strong&gt;We have not paid attention to what they were doing – here or abroad – and we have failed to demand that the government lift the veil of secrecy on too many enterprises. We have failed to hold ourselves accountable for our actions. We have failed to take responsibility for our own mistakes.&lt;/strong&gt; We have abandoned self reliance, family and community values, respect for our political opponents, and the American idea that neighbor helping neighbor is far preferable to asking government to do it for us.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I wish I could believe your sincerity. I do believe your words. They are exactly right. I wish more people understood this. 

Tomorrow is another day, however and politics is now what it has become. People will bash opponents in government and on this blog for being idiots, traitors or worse. Once trust (or at least rapport) is breached, it is lost. Who is to blame? In the end it becomes irrelevant and the results disasterous.

&lt;em&gt;Bashing someone for being an idiot hurt your feelings, asshole? Calling me a liar is not the way to win friends and influence people on this site, sonny. The difference between calling someone like you an idiot and calling them a traitor is several orders of magnitude. I do not call liberals traitors on this site - or unpatriotic. In fact, I have defended the patriotism of the left and tried to explain it (it is vastly different than the patriotism on the right as many have pointed out).&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;The left's problem - as Obama demonstrates on a regular basis - is that any criticism at all cannot be tolerated. It is to be shouted down, or intimidated, or dismissed as "racist" or fascist or some other ridiculous notion. I will happily, gleefully, continue to call liberals - and conservatives - who deserve it idiots, boobs, nincompoops, and any other name that fits. To equate that with questioning your patriotism is bizarre and reveals something of a guilty conscience, methinks.

ed. &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We have been careless and stupid in choosing our leaders. We have been lax in holding them accountable. <strong>We have not paid attention to what they were doing – here or abroad – and we have failed to demand that the government lift the veil of secrecy on too many enterprises. We have failed to hold ourselves accountable for our actions. We have failed to take responsibility for our own mistakes.</strong> We have abandoned self reliance, family and community values, respect for our political opponents, and the American idea that neighbor helping neighbor is far preferable to asking government to do it for us.</p></blockquote>
<p>I wish I could believe your sincerity. I do believe your words. They are exactly right. I wish more people understood this. </p>
<p>Tomorrow is another day, however and politics is now what it has become. People will bash opponents in government and on this blog for being idiots, traitors or worse. Once trust (or at least rapport) is breached, it is lost. Who is to blame? In the end it becomes irrelevant and the results disasterous.</p>
<p><em>Bashing someone for being an idiot hurt your feelings, asshole? Calling me a liar is not the way to win friends and influence people on this site, sonny. The difference between calling someone like you an idiot and calling them a traitor is several orders of magnitude. I do not call liberals traitors on this site - or unpatriotic. In fact, I have defended the patriotism of the left and tried to explain it (it is vastly different than the patriotism on the right as many have pointed out).</em></p>
<p><em>The left&#8217;s problem - as Obama demonstrates on a regular basis - is that any criticism at all cannot be tolerated. It is to be shouted down, or intimidated, or dismissed as &#8220;racist&#8221; or fascist or some other ridiculous notion. I will happily, gleefully, continue to call liberals - and conservatives - who deserve it idiots, boobs, nincompoops, and any other name that fits. To equate that with questioning your patriotism is bizarre and reveals something of a guilty conscience, methinks.</p>
<p>ed. </em></p>
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		<title>By: Conservatism Today</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658406</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservatism Today</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 21:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658406</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Conservatism Today - Around the Blogosphere in 90 Minutes...&lt;/strong&gt;

It's been awhile since I've taken a day to look through my entire blogroll, seing what all my friends are up to, but that's what I'm doing for the 90 minutes or so. I will update this with links to......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Conservatism Today - Around the Blogosphere in 90 Minutes&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>It&#8217;s been awhile since I&#8217;ve taken a day to look through my entire blogroll, seing what all my friends are up to, but that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m doing for the 90 minutes or so. I will update this with links to&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lit3Bolt</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658247</link>
		<dc:creator>Lit3Bolt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658247</guid>
		<description>Great post.

I think what needs to happen is that America needs to intermingle again.  Soon everyone of us will be brothers and sisters in misery.  9/11 was a dramatic shattering of that illusion of security and faith, but it was quickly rebuilt for the Iraq War, as almost everyone was swept up in the excitement of fighting a just, moral war against a deserving enemy.  But so much of it was political theater as Bush and many, many Democrats in Congress told us to eat all the bread and watch all the circuses we wanted while many fine young men and women were cut down randomly and haphazardly.  

I think this economic crisis will wake America up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.</p>
<p>I think what needs to happen is that America needs to intermingle again.  Soon everyone of us will be brothers and sisters in misery.  9/11 was a dramatic shattering of that illusion of security and faith, but it was quickly rebuilt for the Iraq War, as almost everyone was swept up in the excitement of fighting a just, moral war against a deserving enemy.  But so much of it was political theater as Bush and many, many Democrats in Congress told us to eat all the bread and watch all the circuses we wanted while many fine young men and women were cut down randomly and haphazardly.  </p>
<p>I think this economic crisis will wake America up.</p>
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		<title>By: grognard</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658194</link>
		<dc:creator>grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658194</guid>
		<description>In any political debate Liberals and Conservatives have the same mind set. That is they only want to know  how the other side is wrong and filled with morons and liars. Forget debating an issue on it’s merits or need, just drink the kool aid and star ranting about the other side. Take the loan fiasco. Getting lower income people access to loans was not in an of itself a bad idea, home owners with roots in a community take more of an interest in that community than mobile renters. Yes things got out of control, but it was not some sinister plot by either side. Rational people will say, “This is the goal, this is what went wrong and here is the fix.” The kool aid crowd can only scream and play the blame game. It’s when the blame game gets out of control you have a problem. Demagogs like Hitler blamed Jews, Mao blamed Capitalist Roaders,  they know finding someone to vilify is the road to power. I have come to the conclusion that about 80% of the population falls into either of the kool aid camps, only about 20% wants to talk about a subject on it’s own merits. The Vietnam war radicalized the left and right, and I did see the younger generation getting tired of, or just ignoring, the constant petty frothing. Now that we have a war and a financial crisis I don’t know if another generation yet again become radicalized, if so we slip ever closer to Weimar Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In any political debate Liberals and Conservatives have the same mind set. That is they only want to know  how the other side is wrong and filled with morons and liars. Forget debating an issue on it’s merits or need, just drink the kool aid and star ranting about the other side. Take the loan fiasco. Getting lower income people access to loans was not in an of itself a bad idea, home owners with roots in a community take more of an interest in that community than mobile renters. Yes things got out of control, but it was not some sinister plot by either side. Rational people will say, “This is the goal, this is what went wrong and here is the fix.” The kool aid crowd can only scream and play the blame game. It’s when the blame game gets out of control you have a problem. Demagogs like Hitler blamed Jews, Mao blamed Capitalist Roaders,  they know finding someone to vilify is the road to power. I have come to the conclusion that about 80% of the population falls into either of the kool aid camps, only about 20% wants to talk about a subject on it’s own merits. The Vietnam war radicalized the left and right, and I did see the younger generation getting tired of, or just ignoring, the constant petty frothing. Now that we have a war and a financial crisis I don’t know if another generation yet again become radicalized, if so we slip ever closer to Weimar Germany.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Johnson</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658150</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658150</guid>
		<description>Rick,

A cynic is someone who believes that all people are motivated by selfishness.  What part of my post do you regard as cynical?  The fight between Hamilton and Jefferson-Madison is a fight to embrace--not shun because it's combative.  I mean for Pete's sake, would we be better off if Hamilton sat back and said "you know, were both wrong...let's talk about those things on which we agree!"

You say we have lost [something?] handed down to us, which we should preserve as if it were a relic of the Catholic Church "lovingly preserved and cared for by parishioners of all time."  As a student of early Christian history, I've learned that we have something called the Nicene Creed preserved for over 1600 years because fights and disunity within the church were brought to a point of crisis.  Those fights resulted in an understanding that we did not have before that crisis.  What we call orthodoxy was born out of heresy, and it resulted in a great understanding for the faithful.

This is cynicism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick,</p>
<p>A cynic is someone who believes that all people are motivated by selfishness.  What part of my post do you regard as cynical?  The fight between Hamilton and Jefferson-Madison is a fight to embrace&#8211;not shun because it&#8217;s combative.  I mean for Pete&#8217;s sake, would we be better off if Hamilton sat back and said &#8220;you know, were both wrong&#8230;let&#8217;s talk about those things on which we agree!&#8221;</p>
<p>You say we have lost [something?] handed down to us, which we should preserve as if it were a relic of the Catholic Church &#8220;lovingly preserved and cared for by parishioners of all time.&#8221;  As a student of early Christian history, I&#8217;ve learned that we have something called the Nicene Creed preserved for over 1600 years because fights and disunity within the church were brought to a point of crisis.  Those fights resulted in an understanding that we did not have before that crisis.  What we call orthodoxy was born out of heresy, and it resulted in a great understanding for the faithful.</p>
<p>This is cynicism?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Johnson</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658118</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658118</guid>
		<description>Upon further reflection I really don't get this post.  Wasn't "faith of our fathers" dead the moment John Adams refused to show up at Jefferson's inauguration?  As for me, I never had faith in the fathers of eugenics which was so popular among our fathers in the 1930's.  I never had faith our fathers who supported the New Deal, or wanted to pack the Supreme Court, or gave us the Great Society.

My point is that there is no umbrella faith (and I hate using this word since faith is an inept word for the mundane) for which we should embrace all those who came before us.  This country has always been in a fight with itself, and THAT, more than a big group hug is what made us great.


&lt;em&gt;Sheesh...and I thought I was a cynic.

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon further reflection I really don&#8217;t get this post.  Wasn&#8217;t &#8220;faith of our fathers&#8221; dead the moment John Adams refused to show up at Jefferson&#8217;s inauguration?  As for me, I never had faith in the fathers of eugenics which was so popular among our fathers in the 1930&#8217;s.  I never had faith our fathers who supported the New Deal, or wanted to pack the Supreme Court, or gave us the Great Society.</p>
<p>My point is that there is no umbrella faith (and I hate using this word since faith is an inept word for the mundane) for which we should embrace all those who came before us.  This country has always been in a fight with itself, and THAT, more than a big group hug is what made us great.</p>
<p><em>Sheesh&#8230;and I thought I was a cynic.</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bryan</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/comment-page-1/#comment-1658034</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/09/30/faith-of-our-fathers/#comment-1658034</guid>
		<description>What happened to you Rick? Moral equivocation is not an argument. The right is right, and the left is wrong. How's that for faith? Just who are you now? Under the guise of thoughfulness, you've gone soft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happened to you Rick? Moral equivocation is not an argument. The right is right, and the left is wrong. How&#8217;s that for faith? Just who are you now? Under the guise of thoughfulness, you&#8217;ve gone soft.</p>
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