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	<title>Comments on: GOP UNVEILS HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN</title>
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	<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/</link>
	<description>Politics served up with a smile... And a stilletto.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2026 11:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: busboy33</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760778</link>
		<dc:creator>busboy33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 17:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760778</guid>
		<description>@ Mr. M.:

"A better template to examine would be Russia. Their state run system is so bad that people barter with doctors for examinations and treatments."

Why?  Is the only correlation to the situation here the geographic and population size? Or does the fact it sucks (as our health care sucks) make the appropriate comparison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mr. M.:</p>
<p>&#8220;A better template to examine would be Russia. Their state run system is so bad that people barter with doctors for examinations and treatments.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why?  Is the only correlation to the situation here the geographic and population size? Or does the fact it sucks (as our health care sucks) make the appropriate comparison?</p>
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		<title>By: harsens-rob</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760742</link>
		<dc:creator>harsens-rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 22:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760742</guid>
		<description>As in moderately-to-left-leaning independent, I actually think there is a LOT of good in this proposal. I'd like to see some true debate about this proposal (and its nice to see something coming from GOP except "the wealthy need a tax cut" and budget-news conferences with no numbers). As with all proposals there would be enough debate to 'vet' the plan and find any flaws... for example 

"This means federal programs should not promote or support unhealthy behaviors...."

Does this strike anyone here as far too vague? This could mean anything from smoking (bad, but legal) to not wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle to having unprotected sex to doing drugs (illegal and completely right for tax payers to not support, of course) to ANYthing that "the Feds" decide is too unhealthy to 'support'.

And what does that mean, anyway? "Not support" how? Denying coverage if you take a spill while hang-gliding because it's an unhealthy risk? Not covering your chemo if you have cancer if you're a smoker?

I think we'd need to replace "unhealthy" with "illegal". I mean, we're talking about health insurance here - so I don't understand what exactly they mean by "Federal programs should not support...."

I'd also demand that there be increases in the new "refundable credit" tied to future increases in inflation. And finally, I'm not sure what "refundable credit" means... if it means you purchase a plan now and get a tax break on April 12th, that won't do a lot of good for working people who are living paycheck to paycheck as it is.

But still, this is a very promising idea and I'd like to see it explored more in depth by both sides (only by listening to the left and the right can you come to some sort of truth in the middle).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As in moderately-to-left-leaning independent, I actually think there is a LOT of good in this proposal. I&#8217;d like to see some true debate about this proposal (and its nice to see something coming from GOP except &#8220;the wealthy need a tax cut&#8221; and budget-news conferences with no numbers). As with all proposals there would be enough debate to &#8216;vet&#8217; the plan and find any flaws&#8230; for example </p>
<p>&#8220;This means federal programs should not promote or support unhealthy behaviors&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does this strike anyone here as far too vague? This could mean anything from smoking (bad, but legal) to not wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle to having unprotected sex to doing drugs (illegal and completely right for tax payers to not support, of course) to ANYthing that &#8220;the Feds&#8221; decide is too unhealthy to &#8217;support&#8217;.</p>
<p>And what does that mean, anyway? &#8220;Not support&#8221; how? Denying coverage if you take a spill while hang-gliding because it&#8217;s an unhealthy risk? Not covering your chemo if you have cancer if you&#8217;re a smoker?</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;d need to replace &#8220;unhealthy&#8221; with &#8220;illegal&#8221;. I mean, we&#8217;re talking about health insurance here - so I don&#8217;t understand what exactly they mean by &#8220;Federal programs should not support&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also demand that there be increases in the new &#8220;refundable credit&#8221; tied to future increases in inflation. And finally, I&#8217;m not sure what &#8220;refundable credit&#8221; means&#8230; if it means you purchase a plan now and get a tax break on April 12th, that won&#8217;t do a lot of good for working people who are living paycheck to paycheck as it is.</p>
<p>But still, this is a very promising idea and I&#8217;d like to see it explored more in depth by both sides (only by listening to the left and the right can you come to some sort of truth in the middle).</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Tucson</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760739</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Tucson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 20:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760739</guid>
		<description>Heh, no, I wasn't being sarcastic. Wall Street is a great deal more voluntary than this seems to be, which was my concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, no, I wasn&#8217;t being sarcastic. Wall Street is a great deal more voluntary than this seems to be, which was my concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Tucson</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760730</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Tucson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760730</guid>
		<description>Rick said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Either way you win but we all benefit if the costs of such insurance can be held down by spreading the risk.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would think conservatives would decry this as socialism and would not support it.

&lt;em&gt;Spreading risk is done on Wall Street all the time. Why do you think they call them "Hedge Funds?" Seriously, the whole idea of mutual funds is to spread the risk of loss by purchasing many stocks. Some will go up, some down but you hope more go up so that the MF earns money.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Or were you being sarcastic?

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Either way you win but we all benefit if the costs of such insurance can be held down by spreading the risk.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would think conservatives would decry this as socialism and would not support it.</p>
<p><em>Spreading risk is done on Wall Street all the time. Why do you think they call them &#8220;Hedge Funds?&#8221; Seriously, the whole idea of mutual funds is to spread the risk of loss by purchasing many stocks. Some will go up, some down but you hope more go up so that the MF earns money.</em></p>
<p><em>Or were you being sarcastic?</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760729</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760729</guid>
		<description>I hope you're right Rick. I don't care who gets the credit because thats not the issue but we HAVE TO get a handle on rising health/insurance costs as its killing our economy. Emergency room healthcare is NOT an option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you&#8217;re right Rick. I don&#8217;t care who gets the credit because thats not the issue but we HAVE TO get a handle on rising health/insurance costs as its killing our economy. Emergency room healthcare is NOT an option.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760727</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 13:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760727</guid>
		<description>Heres a situation happening all over the country and now its hit me.  A year ago I had open heart surgery. I was sent the bill to remind my insurance company to pay it... the amount was $247,000.  Now, in one week my job will be outsourced to India's incompetent engineers, and I'll only have my insurance coverage for 3 months.  With a pre-existing condition like I have, Bill Gates' money couldn't buy me insurance. Hell, even the devil himself, George Soros couldn't get insurance. Whats the Heritage Foundation's and American Enterprise Institute's solution to that? (Don't get sick?, or pray?) Lots of good a $2300 tax credit will do me!! THAT is the problem and tax credits don't help those of us who can't afford to buy insurance to begin with.  Insurance IS socialism!!!

&lt;em&gt;Nick - the GOP plan has a requirement for the states to set up "uninsurable pools" where people like you will be able to purchase insurance at the same price as everybody else because the risk will be spread out among all insurers doing business in your state. Not a perfect solution (my guess is that actuarials will be very busy figuring out just who might be "uninsurable") but I think it will be better than Obama's idea which will probably involve "Commissions" that will force insurance companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions and probably pay a larger subsidy for it. Either way you win but we all benefit if the costs of such insurance can be held down by spreading the risk.

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heres a situation happening all over the country and now its hit me.  A year ago I had open heart surgery. I was sent the bill to remind my insurance company to pay it&#8230; the amount was $247,000.  Now, in one week my job will be outsourced to India&#8217;s incompetent engineers, and I&#8217;ll only have my insurance coverage for 3 months.  With a pre-existing condition like I have, Bill Gates&#8217; money couldn&#8217;t buy me insurance. Hell, even the devil himself, George Soros couldn&#8217;t get insurance. Whats the Heritage Foundation&#8217;s and American Enterprise Institute&#8217;s solution to that? (Don&#8217;t get sick?, or pray?) Lots of good a $2300 tax credit will do me!! THAT is the problem and tax credits don&#8217;t help those of us who can&#8217;t afford to buy insurance to begin with.  Insurance IS socialism!!!</p>
<p><em>Nick - the GOP plan has a requirement for the states to set up &#8220;uninsurable pools&#8221; where people like you will be able to purchase insurance at the same price as everybody else because the risk will be spread out among all insurers doing business in your state. Not a perfect solution (my guess is that actuarials will be very busy figuring out just who might be &#8220;uninsurable&#8221;) but I think it will be better than Obama&#8217;s idea which will probably involve &#8220;Commissions&#8221; that will force insurance companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions and probably pay a larger subsidy for it. Either way you win but we all benefit if the costs of such insurance can be held down by spreading the risk.</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Surabaya Stew</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760725</link>
		<dc:creator>Surabaya Stew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 09:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760725</guid>
		<description>This plan might go a long way in solving one of the problems with health care in America today; the cost problem. To give a personal example, I was recently laid off by my firm and was offered the option of COBRA coverage. The cost of my plan is normally $375, but a provision in the Obama stimulus offers a 65% price reduction for the first 9 months of COBRA coverage, bringing my bill down to $131 and change. With only $405 dollars per week being offered by New York State, and with the chances of finding work in my field of Architecture being slim to none while the recession lasts, this is truly a godsend! If the this proposed plan could offer a similar savings to the average american family and employer, it could really change the fortunes of the GOP.

Unfortunately, it does nothing to fix the other big problems in American health care, one of which is the sanity sapping act of dealing with the health insurance companies to actually pay for ones medical treatment. Frankly, if the members of congress had to deal with Oxford and Blue Cross et al. rather than their "no questions asked" government issued insurance, there would have been a successful bi-partisan creation of a single-payer system years ago!
							Oops...forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This plan might go a long way in solving one of the problems with health care in America today; the cost problem. To give a personal example, I was recently laid off by my firm and was offered the option of COBRA coverage. The cost of my plan is normally $375, but a provision in the Obama stimulus offers a 65% price reduction for the first 9 months of COBRA coverage, bringing my bill down to $131 and change. With only $405 dollars per week being offered by New York State, and with the chances of finding work in my field of Architecture being slim to none while the recession lasts, this is truly a godsend! If the this proposed plan could offer a similar savings to the average american family and employer, it could really change the fortunes of the GOP.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it does nothing to fix the other big problems in American health care, one of which is the sanity sapping act of dealing with the health insurance companies to actually pay for ones medical treatment. Frankly, if the members of congress had to deal with Oxford and Blue Cross et al. rather than their &#8220;no questions asked&#8221; government issued insurance, there would have been a successful bi-partisan creation of a single-payer system years ago!<br />
							Oops&#8230;forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.</p>
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		<title>By: Surabaya Stew</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760721</link>
		<dc:creator>Surabaya Stew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 04:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760721</guid>
		<description>This plan might go a long way in solving one of the problems with health care in America today; the cost problem. To give a personal example, I was recently laid off by my firm and was offered the option of COBRA coverage. The cost of my plan is normally $375, but a provision in the Obama stimulus offers a 65% price reduction for the first 9 months of COBRA coverage, bringing my bill down to $131 and change. With only $405 dollars per week being offered by New York State, and with the chances of finding work in my field of Architecture being slim to none while the recession lasts, this is truly a godsend! If the this proposed plan could offer a similar savings to the average american family and employer, it could really change the fortunes of the GOP.

Unfortunately, it does nothing to fix the other big problems in American health care, one of which is the sanity sapping act of dealing with the health insurance companies to actually pay for ones medical treatment. Frankly, if the members of congress had to deal with Oxford and Blue Cross et al. rather than their "no questions asked" government issued insurance, there would have been a successful bi-partisan creation of a single-payer system years ago!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This plan might go a long way in solving one of the problems with health care in America today; the cost problem. To give a personal example, I was recently laid off by my firm and was offered the option of COBRA coverage. The cost of my plan is normally $375, but a provision in the Obama stimulus offers a 65% price reduction for the first 9 months of COBRA coverage, bringing my bill down to $131 and change. With only $405 dollars per week being offered by New York State, and with the chances of finding work in my field of Architecture being slim to none while the recession lasts, this is truly a godsend! If the this proposed plan could offer a similar savings to the average american family and employer, it could really change the fortunes of the GOP.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it does nothing to fix the other big problems in American health care, one of which is the sanity sapping act of dealing with the health insurance companies to actually pay for ones medical treatment. Frankly, if the members of congress had to deal with Oxford and Blue Cross et al. rather than their &#8220;no questions asked&#8221; government issued insurance, there would have been a successful bi-partisan creation of a single-payer system years ago!</p>
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		<title>By: Your Canadian sister</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760716</link>
		<dc:creator>Your Canadian sister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 02:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760716</guid>
		<description>Hey Rick, I saw your link on Facebook and thought I'd comment since this has always been a real world issue for my family...This plan would offer some assistance and financial respite to the millions upon millions of underinsured Americans.  Yet the benefit to the uninsured is way way too low for a family--$5700 buys about 4-5 months of high deductible, high co-pay insurance.  I'm not sure why Americans are convinced that some type of government insurance limits choice and violates one of the inalienable rights of being an American.  Since moving to Canada I've experienced unparalleled choice, access, and quality in medical and behavioral health care. Much better choice and access than we ever had in the US even with our Teamster insurance.  The emphasis on preventative medicine is also much greater here.  It wasn't until we moved here that your nephew finally received appropriate diagnosis and treatment for his asthma.  We don't worry about the cost of a nighttime trip to the emergency room during an asthma attack.  It's far from a perfect system, but ask even the most right-wing Canadian (that's kind of like a McCain Republican I think) and they wouldn't want to revert to a private system.


&lt;em&gt;The problem here is one of scale, I think. Canada has fewer residents than California. A similar point could be made of European countries (who seem to have bigger problems than Canada in maintaining an adequate national health care system) whose populations are from 3 to 10 times smaller than the US.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;A better template to examine would be Russia. Their state run system is so bad that people barter with doctors for examinations and treatments.&lt;/em&gt; 

&lt;em&gt;I'm very glad you like your health care system in Canada and that it is performing as advertised. I'm just not sure Obamacare would do the same here. You might note that I say the family stipend offered in the GOP plan is too low and that the temptation for insurance companies to game the system at the state level exchanges means that there would have to be close federal oversight to prevent price fixing and other dodges. The market won't cure all that is wrong with the health care crisis in America. But some of the solutions offered by the GOP are a damn sight better than the top down mandated solutions offered by Obama.

ed.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Rick, I saw your link on Facebook and thought I&#8217;d comment since this has always been a real world issue for my family&#8230;This plan would offer some assistance and financial respite to the millions upon millions of underinsured Americans.  Yet the benefit to the uninsured is way way too low for a family&#8211;$5700 buys about 4-5 months of high deductible, high co-pay insurance.  I&#8217;m not sure why Americans are convinced that some type of government insurance limits choice and violates one of the inalienable rights of being an American.  Since moving to Canada I&#8217;ve experienced unparalleled choice, access, and quality in medical and behavioral health care. Much better choice and access than we ever had in the US even with our Teamster insurance.  The emphasis on preventative medicine is also much greater here.  It wasn&#8217;t until we moved here that your nephew finally received appropriate diagnosis and treatment for his asthma.  We don&#8217;t worry about the cost of a nighttime trip to the emergency room during an asthma attack.  It&#8217;s far from a perfect system, but ask even the most right-wing Canadian (that&#8217;s kind of like a McCain Republican I think) and they wouldn&#8217;t want to revert to a private system.</p>
<p><em>The problem here is one of scale, I think. Canada has fewer residents than California. A similar point could be made of European countries (who seem to have bigger problems than Canada in maintaining an adequate national health care system) whose populations are from 3 to 10 times smaller than the US.</em></p>
<p><em>A better template to examine would be Russia. Their state run system is so bad that people barter with doctors for examinations and treatments.</em> </p>
<p><em>I&#8217;m very glad you like your health care system in Canada and that it is performing as advertised. I&#8217;m just not sure Obamacare would do the same here. You might note that I say the family stipend offered in the GOP plan is too low and that the temptation for insurance companies to game the system at the state level exchanges means that there would have to be close federal oversight to prevent price fixing and other dodges. The market won&#8217;t cure all that is wrong with the health care crisis in America. But some of the solutions offered by the GOP are a damn sight better than the top down mandated solutions offered by Obama.</p>
<p>ed.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Tucson</title>
		<link>http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/05/20/gop-unveils-health-insurance-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-1760711</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Tucson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/?p=3828#comment-1760711</guid>
		<description>busboy33 said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The only reason to go is for the cheap prices DESPITE the customer service, not in addition to it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

LOL. Amen. Not to mention that once all the local businesses shut down because they couldn't compete, it was literally the ONLY place to buy stuff. Either you buy stuff you need at Wal-Mart and like it, or, well, you buy stuff you need at Wal-Mart and don't like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>busboy33 said:</p>
<blockquote><p>The only reason to go is for the cheap prices DESPITE the customer service, not in addition to it.</p></blockquote>
<p>LOL. Amen. Not to mention that once all the local businesses shut down because they couldn&#8217;t compete, it was literally the ONLY place to buy stuff. Either you buy stuff you need at Wal-Mart and like it, or, well, you buy stuff you need at Wal-Mart and don&#8217;t like it.</p>
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