As far as abortion argument goes, I think conservatives would do well to stick with just the medical facts - when the foetus gets a heart beat within the first 12 weeks of conception, what exactly is it now ? My understanding of Roe v Wade is that within the first 26 weeks, abortion is legally allowed.

As you pointed out, it has to be kept legal in those scenarios where a woman’s life is at risk or it is simply unavoidable ( i read a real painful case where the woman wanted to carry the baby to term but couldnt due to terrible complications).

But that would bring us to the question of abortions performed on perfectly healthy women, who just dont want to have a baby. In fact, this is what the progressives/liberals are most concerned about - they see this as the pinnacle of a woman’s freedom. Short of it, women will always remain “oppressed”.

There is a case to be made that women in an earlier and more conservative America were expected to have more children and could not do much about it. This was seen by the progressive movement as a way to keep women in control and unfortunately in their view,abortion became the focal point of a woman’s freedom.

I guess this is all old news to you and many people who have watched this debate for much longer time than me - but i think that the key to any meaningful compromise on abortion is the recognition on both sides that

A) Women in this country have strong and equal rights- the culture warriors have blatantly used the abortion = women’s rights meme to the hilt. Women should not have to feel insecure about their status in this country.

B) It seems to dispropotionately affect minorities. What can conservatives do to help foster family values in minority communities ? Education, jobs etc…

Black conservatives are needed and people like Shelby Steele, Ward Connerly etc have tried to shape public opinion on this issue - BUT, as always they are painted as race traitors and Uncle Toms.

What do conservatives really stand for? What are our unifying principles of government, economy, and rights?
I dont know if there is a “unified” theory but we all believe in limited Govt, personal responsibility, freer markets, strong national defense and lesser intervention in people’s personal lives.

I don’t like where our government has been going lately. But it’s one thing to be against the status quo, and another thing to be for an articulated alternative.

It is kind of difficult to give an alternative when you are in deep do-do. What alternatives do we have when businesses make home loans to people who they know wont pay it back? When people buy homes they know that they have no chance of paying for and are instead buying it to sell it off at the highest price (all the while forgetting that there is risk involved in any gamble ?)

How many alternatives did liberals propose when the Iraq war looked hopelessly lost ? What alternatives did they propose when they vehemently opposed Bush on social security reform and the surge?

Nothing more than cutting and running and increasing more taxes on the “greedy”.

And they control all three branches in Govt with a filibuster proof majority today.

Life’s unfair - conservatives have to realize that they have to be at their best every time, they get an opportunity to govern -otherwise, people will vote the Democrats in. Its as simple as that.

Yes, I’m religious, and Yes, I believe human life begins at conception. I dont’ buy the legal distinction between the born and the unborn. I have no opposition to birth control in the sense of preventing conception. Whatever I believe, I recognize citing theology to justify public policy has no place in America and will only backfire. Fellow Americans who do not share my religious views are right to insist that I persuade them on grounds of reason and civic value. Many fellow pro-lifers, however, eagerly cite scripture and it ultimately works to their detriment. I think the public case against abortion can and should be made on rational grounds. If a human fetus is not a human life, what other kind of life is it? The pain and carnage involved in aborting a fetus is perhaps the best case against it. I wonder, for example, how many of those who adamantly oppose waterboarding as torture feel the same way about abortion. I see our nation’s tolerance of abortion much like the prior (legal) practice of slavery many years ago. I find it unjust and wrong. But I think exceptions can and should be made for rare cases of where the mother’s life is in danger, for example. And no, I don’t regard those who disagree with me as evil or stupid villains. But I digress.

Going back to my original question — what do conservatives really stand for? What are our unifying principles of government, economy, and rights? I don’t like where our government has been going lately. But it’s one thing to be against the status quo, and another thing to be for an articulated alternative. What is the alternative? What is our manifesto? (I admit I have not read Mark Levin or Glenn Beck or Ron Paul because I do not take them very seriously.)

There are a lot of reasons for this passivity - IMHO,the primary reason is that most Indians are not interested in politics - as long as we have good job/career opportunities,we dont seem to care about anything else. When tax time does come, we gripe about it… and then move on.

Our experience with Indian politics has left us cynical and quite a few of us have the exact same feeling now about US politics as well.

Grin and bear -we are just thankful sometimes for just having the opportunity to be here, all other things being how ever bad they may be.

90% of American politics is about showing up. If you aren’t in people’s face, you don’t exist. And the Asian habit (more among East than South Asians) of working hard and hoping for notice doesn’t work in in-your-face American politics.

Chinese immigrants seem the same way; the few Chinese that get into politics are standard latte liberals or local ward-boss types, all of whom tend to be Dems. There have been a few Chinese conservative politicians, but far fewer than their population would suggest.

Sorry for the OT grump, but as long as “conservative” equals “middle-aged white guys”, it simply won’t matter numerically.

But if this is of any comfort to you, I used to be one of those enlightened moderates who saw abortion as a political issue that is nothing more than a woman’s “right to choose”. Luckily for me, my position has changed a lot ( especially after I saw the movie “Marley and Me”) and it turned what ever queasiness that I had abortion before(while still keeping it legal) into outright disgust.

Very few people seem to know the fundamental facts about when human life begins, or that by as early as the tenth week, the baby gets a heart beat going and most of its organs already growing - by this time, even its gender is decided (XY chromosomes create a male and XX chromosomes for female).

If you asked me ,social conservatives have done a very poor job at describing what an abortion entails - people who dont agree with you have successfully painted an image that you “believe” that an unborn infant is actually a human being. And that your opposition to abortion is based on the Christian faith.

This is more than “belief” - these are the medical facts whether you would like to face them or not.

You could be an atheist but still see the humanitarian value of the pro-life position, but your opponents think that all you want to do is over turn Roe v Wade and make abortion illegal. Some of your opponents have painted you as being rigid extremists because of your opposition to Roe V Wade alone.

No, I dont want abortions to be made illegal - I’d rather that the “right to choose” become redundant. If people realized what was at stake (especially MEN), they would do their level best to not put their women in a position where a terrible choice has to be made.

If you are truly interested in compromise, you should come out openly in support for contraception - I realize that this also may be against your religious views - but this would be much better than anything else.

As a person who loves individual liberty I am stunned that people have to take political stands on errr.. contraception! Responsible adults already know what to do and STILL social conservatives are expected to come out in support of contraception - but,that’s how pathetic it is.

Doug, as far as fiscal conservatism goes - I think this country is in for a very very painful lesson in basic economics - there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Look at your current health care debate (full disclosure, i am from India and will be moving back home next year)-

There are people who actually believe that the “public option” will reduce insurance costs for EVERYONE because there will be more people covered by insurance - all the while forgetting that this is nothing more than static analysis and health care costs are only going to grow as more insured people are going to expect more services - at the taxpayer expense !

Not to mention the inevitable Government intervention into what constitutes treatment for a patient. If you thought insurance companies where bad in restricting your choice of doctors, wait till your Govt restricts your choice of treatment.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/with-the-government-in-the-examination-room-its-no-fun-for-the-patient-or-the-doctor/

I dont even want to talk about the avalanche of entitlement spending that this country has “obliged” itself to pay for its senior citizens - abt 52 trillon dollars - I might actually reach Mark Levin levels of despondency. And Rick may call me out for my bitching and whining

This country always seems to have had a guiding hand that helped it reach its true potential and destiny - at awful times, when this country would have never even come into existence ( like the terrible losses that the Revolutionary Army kept taking after 1776) or when it would have dissolved into two (Civil War) or when it somehow lead the free world against the evils of Nazism(WW2) and later on Communism, it some how pulled through.

Even after the bitterness of the boomers with Vietnam, Civil Rights etc, this country has some how pulled through.

Will it do this miracle act again ? This country is awash in debt and is very very polarized that it is amazing that it still is one country. I think we will watch in the next few decades.

Personally, I would love for fiscal sanity to return to the citizens of this country - but i am not betting that it will.

The way forward is to unite conservatives and moderates behind good, politically viable ideas. The big question is, what are those ideas? As a fiscal and social conservative I have some notions, but I accept that I am one small fish in a very large ocean. I have to find others who more or less want the same things I do. There’s an engineering adage that states, “The perfect is the enemy of the good.” Insisting on perfection in an imperfect world gets you no where.