The Democrats threatened something similar over the “nuclear option” on judges that the GOP was seriously contemplating at one time.

FALSE.

utterly the nuclear option was ginned-up by Bill Frist in an attempt to end Dem filibusters over W’s nominations.

also, what do you call the GOP’s desire to filibuster EVERYTHING, if not abuse of the Senate rules? there is no Constitutional requirement that every bill needs 60 votes to pass; that requirement has come about because the simply GOP threatens to block everything. go look at the numbers of filibusters previous to the GOP becoming the Senate minority, compared to after.

and is this not also abuse of the Senate rules ?

Amen.

And what I am taking home, is the power to make changes without your participation thru superior majorities in congress and the WH. The same way your GWB did for 8 years. Maybe dems will suffer the same type of fail and the people will give your side another chance. I don’t think so, but who knows.

But just quit whining about no bipartisanship and win some elections if you don’t like what is going on. Big boy rules. And repudiate those on the right who talk of gunplay and armed resistance. Then we can debate.

They lie about everything

Ridiculous. You display the petulance of a child.

then bring guns to dem political events

All of us do, right? We’re all packing our heat. Waiting for Armageddon. At least we’ll be ready.

I have no more desire to debate them on any level about anything.

Sounds like somebody is taking their toys and going home. Wahhhhh, wahhhhhh, wahhhhhh. If you don’t want to debate us anymore, WTF are you doing here?

2. Read my note. Moving from a Single Payer system (which was probably a non-starter anyway) to Insurance Co-Ops is trying to throw up something ANY Republican may possibly, hopefully, maybe listen to.

3. I know you’re for reform, as I have read you pretty consistently. Never accused you of anything else.

I haven’t seen the Price Waterhouse study, but I’d love to see what activities make up this 10%. Extra tests? Extra paperwork? And insurance pools sound to me like group insurance, which is what I have now. Are they pools for people with the same problems? Isn’t that the point of group insurance–to spread the risk among many people? Insurance companies have been trying to segregate risks like this for years, claiming it’s the one cancer patient or heart condition in a pool that’s jacking up rates. It won’t help solve the problem of affordable healthcare. Selling insurance across state lines sounds like eliminating restrictions on branch banking: you get efficiences in the administrative process, but remember these are insurance companies. If they’re like banks, that efficiency will not be passed along in lower rates. Finally, insurance companies already tailor policies to people who want less. I just went through that process for a certain 23 year-old young man. We were able to buy a policy that had some basic coverage with low premiums and high deductibles. It didn’t cover everything, only major medical and an annual physical. This probably doesn’t apply to group policies, but there should be no reason (except legislative) that they can’t.

I think the whole problem with the healthcare debate is nobody is stating the obvious: we provide a basic human need in the context of a for-profit system. Why don’t we treat it like a utility? Why don’t we gurantee a cost+ payment system to healthcare providers (and drug companies and medical device makers)? That’s probably what Medicare tries to do, and I’m sure there would be arguments about what should go into the cost structure and what should not. But we do that now for electricity, so why can’t we do it for healthcare? I realize there are all sorts of problems with Public Utility Commisions, and people will worry about being dictated to by bureaucrats. But since we are already being dictated to by the private sector equivalent (claims adjusters) why not at least give us some influence over who those decision makers might be?

However, I am not defending it. It’s a loophole that should never be utilized. It was wrong then, and its wrong now. “It’s dem’s turn”? Please don’t justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

Healthcare reform is just as budget related, or even more so than tax cuts. Tax cuts did nothing to reduce the deficit, in fact because they were directed mostly at the rich, they actually ballooned the deficit. Obama believes as do I, that unless we interject some sanity into the market with some actual competition, the greed and avarice of health care profiteers will bankrupt the nation.

As to not using the RP out of some noble effort by dems to do right instead of doing equal wrong with the GOP. I will say this. If dems don’t use a rule equally as the GOP then imbalance will result to the overall body politic.

I simply do not care anymore what repubs say or hope. They lie about everything and make false notions of bipartisanship, then bring guns to dem political events and threaten to shut down the government if they don’t get their way. I have no more desire to debate them on any level about anything.

However, I am not defending it. It’s a loophole that should never be utilized. It was wrong then, and its wrong now. “It’s dem’s turn”? Please don’t justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

1. Please present evidence that anything - repeat anything - that is in this reform plan will actually bring down costs. Are you smarter than Director Elmendorf at the CBO who says that it’s a pipedream to believe that costs will come down significantly? Even the Medicare cost control measures are nothing more than cutting payments to doctors and hospitals - which will simply be passed on to those of us on private insurance plans.

2. “Negotiating” with the Democrats and the White House has been a sham. Name one concession they’ve made to the GOP? The idiotic hub bub over the “death panels” only shows their political cowardice.

3. I am for reform. I agree wholeheartedly that unless we find a way to bring costs down, we are done for. I am not such an absolutist that I think all solutions can be found in the free market - something you would know if you had been reading me consistently.

How about tort reform. Price Waterhouse determined in a study that 10% of all health care costs can be attributed to defensive medicine practiced solely because of our wacky malpractice laws. How about insurance pools instead of co-ops? How about changing the regs at state level that prevent insurance companies from selling across state lines? How about changing regs that require insurance companies to offer comprehensive health coverage so they can tailor policies to individuals like we do for auto insurance.

The key I believe is that we are reaching for the stars when we should be planning a trip to Glen Lake. Incremental changes instead of this monstrous disruption that no one knows - including Obama - how it will work, how it will be paid for, or how it will affect the current system would make more sense and would probably gain Obama a few Republicans in the process.

ed.