Comments on: WARMIST ADVOCATES REFUSE TO DIFFERNIATE BETWEEN ‘DENIERS’ AND ‘SKEPTICS’

By: angullimala

angullimala — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:26:38 +0000

There seems to be a default assumption that the bias is 100% “political” and a total lack of attention paid to the idea that scientists are often biased in favor of their careers.

When a guy earns his money studying Global Warming he is going to be biased in favor of the theory that AGW is a serious problem.

Then again, the people who make their money peddling conspiracy theories are biased in favor of interpreting things as … politically motivated conspiracies instead of just self-interested careerism.

By: Thers

Thers — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:03:19 +0000

#4, no, they don’t. They show, in fact, an appropriate amount of “skepticism.” Also they have nothing substantive to do with what I linked to.

By: jackson1234

jackson1234 — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:43:46 +0000

Scientists are the ultimate skeptics. The East Anglia emails reveal many if not most AGW advocates who also happen to be scientists dropped their requisite skepticism.

The smallest problem AGW advocates have is their conflating skepticism with denial. No, their largest problem is they not only cannot make their case while they demand intrusive, outrageous economic disruptions, they have undercut that case themselves.

Stick a fork in this turkey. The tragedy will be if AGW turned out to be correct and over-reaching killed it. I have started to doubt that scenario as my AGW agnosticism is moving rapidly toward atheism.

Some left-wingers conducted the ultimate war on science here. Since I love the fruits science produces, I fear for how badly it has been tarnished by these fanatics.

By: UNRR

UNRR — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:24:03 +0000

This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 12/7/2009, at The Unreligious Right

By: Larry

Larry — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:11:50 +0000

Moran, you draw a false distinction. There are no climate change “deniers” on the skeptical side of things re climate change or more accurately global warming. This is a disingenous slur used by global warming hysterics against AGW skeptics, and you have bought into it. All AGW skeptics (at least all knowledgeable ones) are simply AGW skeptics, not climate change deniers since they are always insisting on the reality of climate change, that the climate is always changing naturally, that climate change is intrinsic to climate itself. Therefore there is no reason to assume that climate change is man-made all of a sudden after billions (yes billions) of years.

It’s the skeptics on AGW who always insist on bringing up climate change from the earth’s past including the ice ages, the Medieval Warm Period, the Little Ice Age during the Renaissance etc since this undermines the notion of present-day climate change being man-made. As if we are no longer subject to natural fluctuations in climate when we always have been in the past, and will continue to be in the future since climate change is intrinsic to climate. It’s that simple. As long as the earth is spinning round the sun, there is climate and climate change, the two are inseperable. The AGW hysterics should speak of their climate change affirmer opponents, not deniers - they are simply being both dishonest and obtuse otherwise. The climate change deniers here are the AGW hysterics since they deny natural climate change, or deny it’s existence all of a sudden after billions of years of natural climate change, yet in the modern industrial age all of a sudden natural climate change ceases. It’s all of sudden man-made. Who’s in denial? Talk about projection.

Incidentally Moran read that article you wrote on Palin and the mainstreaming of the Birthers at Pajamas Media, as I commented there (under the same moniker - the second Larry not the first), good article, and I agree with you 100% - but look at all the moronic responses you got from the zombie Birthers, so many of them, the majority of the responses to your article were pro-Birther garbage. It’s why there is no hope for conservatism in America, like liberalism which is likewise bankrupt in everyway. Birtherism has taken hold of the Right like a mind plague, gotta say that it doesn’t surprise me though.

By: Travis Monitor

Travis Monitor — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:01:24 +0000

I just tonight called McIntyre’s Climate Audit the “Blog of the Decade”
on the basis of his dogged ability to correct multiple errors and audit the work of the climate science community:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-audit-blog-of-decade.html
ClimateGate has vindicated McIntyre, as all the behaviors he claimed were happening, data hiding, data massaging, were indeed going on behind the scenes.

And #2, internal CRU emails tell a more honest assessment of how much McIntyre exposed them and forced them to correct their work:
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1029&filename=1254345329.txt
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1032

By: Doug King

Doug King — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:50:46 +0000

Right or wrong, the claims of AGW scientists have been polluted by political agendas. Scientists seeking the truth don’t cherry pick or hide information. Politicians, snakeoil salesmen, and lawyers do that.

Factual debate is a healthy process for establishing the truth when controversy abounds. The scientific AGW establishment therefore needs to:

1. Publish all its fundamental data.
2. Publish its source code for analyzing the data.
3. Let skeptics and believers alike question, analyze, correct, and improve the conclusions.
4. Distance itself from politicians and political agendas.

By: Thers

Thers — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:40:22 +0000

Of course there are two sides to every story, Briffa’s side is a lot more convincing than the one you tell here.

http://deepclimate.org/2009/10/30/briffa-teaches-but-will-mcintyre-ever-learn/

By: SShiell

SShiell — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:15:39 +0000

“That said, lumping “skeptics” in with “deniers” is a transparent smear and should be abandoned.”

The case provided here is the very same for people who oppose the Obama Adminitration policies being called “Racists”.