At least Matt Stoller says I do.
I just paid my taxes, and I have to say, I always take pride when I do so. I don’t like having less money to spend, of course, and the complexity of the process is really upsetting. But I am proud to pay for democracy, and I feel when I do send money to the DC Treasurer and the US Treasury that that is what I am doing. The right-wing likes to pretend as if taxes are a burden instead of the price of democracy. And I suppose, if you hate democracy, as the right-wing does, then taxes are the price for paying for something you really don’t want. Personally, I find banking fees, high cable and internet charges, health care costs, and credit card hidden charges much more abrasive than taxes, because with those I’m just being ripped off to pay for someone’s summer home.Patriotism is about recognizing that we are all connected in a fundamental moral and physical sense, that the war in Iraq is our war, that poverty in New Orleans is our poverty, that public funding to cure cancer comes from each of us and not just the scientists who have made it theirs. The tax burden we face is a very small price to pay for the privilege of taking responsibility for our own freedom and our own society. And the hatred of taxes on the right comes from a hatred for this responsibility. It’s childish and immoral and unAmerican.
First of all, does anyone else get the creeps reading Mr. Stoller’s paean to our IRS overlords? I’m very happy he appreciates living in a democracy. So do I. But the taxes he so happily and proudly parts with are collected by perhaps the most undemocratic, oppressive, out of control, nightmare of a bureaucracy our republic has ever known.
Tens of thousands of citizens have fallen under the wheels of the IRS juggernaut only to have their lives ruined, their assets seized, their freedom threatened – all because either the citizen made an honest mistake or, more likely, the IRS itself erred and refused to acknowledge it.
When liberals like Stoller make noises of satisfaction like an infant who has just soiled their diaper just because they obeyed the law one wonders what lefties like our Matt do when they come to a complete stop at a stop sign. The celebrations must go on far into the night.
As far as Mr. Stoller’s laughable “analysis” of right wing attitudes toward taxes and taxation, Paul at Powerline performs the necessary lobotomy:
According to Stoller, “the right-wing likes to pretend as if taxes are a burden instead of the price of democracy.” But while some taxation is the price of democracy (or virtually any other form of government) excessive taxation is, by definition, an undue burden. Excessive taxation is also harmful to our society, unless one believes that there’s no level of taxation that would throw our economy into a downward spiral and/or take too much control of spending decisions out of the hands of citizens.Stoller then takes his faulty construct one step further, stating “if you hate democracy, as the right-wing does, then taxes are the price for paying for something you really don’t want.” The intellectual dishonesty of this statement is apparent. Conservatives argue for all sorts of things when it comes to taxes: lower marginal tax rates, lower capital gains taxes (or none), a flat tax, the replacement of the federal income tax with a national sales tax, etc. But I know of no conservative who argues for no taxation. Nor can Stoller show any relationship between current levels of taxation and democracy. We’d be no less democratic if our representatives voted to cut our tax rates in half or institute a flat tax. Thus, it’s hardly anti-democratic for conservatives to advocate such measures or to regret, especially on “tax day,” that they have not been adopted.
And herein lies a major difference between left and right regarding the nature of government; the left believes government is a living entity to be nurtured, pampered, even praised. The right believes, as the Founders did, that government is a utility that needs to be managed. (Would that it could be run as well as the phone company.)
Of course, it is hubristic to believe that anyone can manage a beast that consumes $3 trillion a year. Neither can the monster be reasoned with. The United States government in this, the 21st century, overseeing as it does the largest industrial democracy in the world, is the closest thing to a force of nature ever created by man. It can be managed in only the grossest sense – as a piano tuner might attempt to do his job wearing boxing gloves. He can pound the upper register of the instrument and cut spending, always leaving some needy people who fall through the cracks. Or, he can pound the lower register of the piano and increase spending, thus assuring that some who don’t deserve federal largess receive the benefit anyway.
A simplistic allegory to be sure, but I hope instructive. What escapes those of us on the right and on the left is the fact that fine tuning the instrument of government is an impossibility. There are 300 million of us in this country and each of us, in some way large and small, depends on the beast for something. Good roads for safety and convenience. Policeman to protect us. Firemen to save us. Soldiers to fight for us. And legions and legions of bureaucrats to keep the paperwork from overwhelming all of us.
Necessary? Mostly. Hard to argue (although The Cato Institute tries gamely) that the country doesn’t need an Environmental Protection Agency or an OSHA. But when lefties like Stoller wax poetic about government, it is an unseemly demonstration of attachment to what for all intents and purposes is an entity that should be viewed as if not an enemy then certainly an opponent of individual liberty. Keeping that fact uppermost in one’s mind does not make one “unamerican” or “unpatriotic.”
Paying taxes, obeying the law, contributing to society should be as utilitarian a function as using the toilet. Why it has elicited such gushiness from Stoller can only mean that he must spend a lot of time in the bathroom.
4:38 pm
I wonder when the last time Mr. Stoller brushed up on his American history was? What was it that kicked off the American Revolution? What was the founding fathers personal opinions regarding taxation? I doubt Mr. Stoller would have any trouble quoting every line from every Simpson episode every broadcast, yet those two questions, unlikely he could answer.
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
8:21 pm
The notion that the government is an enemy of liberty is absurd. It is so, as the Founders understood, when there is no popular control of the government. That is why they solved the problem of an enemy government by establishing a democracy.
Conservatism has always been an elitist ideology. Whether the elite gains power through family inheritance (monarchy or aristocracy), or through some combination of inheritance and meritocracy, it still represents an elite group. Democracy is the notion that all people should have an equal voice, even if they are low-born, or low in social accomplishemnts. That is what most rightwingers dont seem to get. Even if you are a thoroughly average person, or even below average, you are still entitled to an equal voice.
The democratic will of the people is for government to play a role in solving many of the issues that the people feel are problematical in our society. The wealthy would prefer to use thier own resources to contruct personal little paradises behind their gated walls, and to contribute as little as possible to what the rabble are doing.
8:57 pm
I love democracy. I don’t love big government and the taxes ‘the government’ feels entitled to from my pocket.
I don’t love that the new Democrat majority has sent up the largest tax increase in U.S. history either.
10:44 pm
There has been nothing more injurious to individual liberty than the expansion of government powers at the expense of the states and the people.
Any boob knows this. Common sense tells us this.
So what’s your problem? You’re an illogical boob.
4:36 am
Tano – you disprove your own point. The government isn’t there to solve our problems for us, it is there at best to enable and equip US to solve OUR OWN problems. The liberal mindset is just as you’ve stated: that the government is somehow responsible or better equipped to solve our problems than we are.
The founding fathers, contrary to what you postulate, very well understood the dangers of an overly intrusive government, and took steps like the separation of powers, voter referendums, the ability to impeach, and others to ensure that the government remained accountable to the people…not the other way around (like the IRS!).
“Democracy will only succeed until the population realizes it can vote itself largess from the treasury” and other such quotes reflect this attitude.
Conservatives don’t “hate democracy.” How many of those nasty buggers serve in the military to defend the very concept to the death?
A “conservative” view is that taxation should be FAIR, and only that which serves to enhance the welfare of the general public. Soaking billions out of the working man to fund socialist programs, the United Nations and 501c3 exemptions for Code Pink aren’t it.
5:48 am
I don’t much like paying high banking fees, credit card interests, high health insurance costs, high cable and internet charges either however I have a choice not to partake whereas paying high taxes leaves me no choice.
Further, I’m not convinced that taxation advances democracy when only .12 cents to the dollar goes to ‘we the People’ while the reminder goes to a massive socialist government bureauracy especially when I too have just written out several checks for this tax year plus estimated tax for next year which when added up could feed, house and clothe an entire family of four for a year.
I guess what bugs me most is that while I cannot afford a summer home and live in a studio, I do know someone who works for a popular NBC show, has one of those NYC stabilized 2000 sq ft Soho lofts and enjoys a summer home in East Hampton all the while espouses the belief that ‘rich’ people should pay more taxes.
7:49 am
Next thing you’ll be against the Patriot Act. If you’re not a terrorist, there’s nothing to worry about, you know. The government, by its nature, is only about serving the best interests of the people, such as promoting Shia theocracy in the Middle East, etc. /s
8:48 am
Stoller: “The right-wing likes to pretend as if taxes are a burden instead of the price of democracy. And I suppose, if you hate democracy, as the right-wing does…”
Well, Comrade Stoller “ably” parrots the useless dialectical class-envy idiocy with his self-congratulating appeal to “patriotic” stewardship over his fellow needful Left-wing American mascots’ (victims) entitlement to tax-gouging & statist dependency.
Yipee…
“Socialism. If you build it, they will leave.” Joshua Muravchik, “Heaven on Earth”
***
“Despite the warm glow of self-satisfaction that the liberal vision confers on liberals, ugly facts keep intruding to undermine that vision. Some liberals eventually jump ship and defect to conservatism when the facts keep piling up too high to ignore… Or, even better jump to capitalism as opposed to ‘Conservatism.’”—Thomas Sowell, 6/3/06
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4687
***
Stoller: “I don’t like having less money to spend, of course, and the complexity of the process is really upsetting.”
“More than half of all people filing income tax forms use someone else to prepare the forms for them. Then they have to sign under penalty of perjury that these forms are correct. But if they were competent to determine that, why would they have to pay someone else to do their taxes for them in the first place?
It is amazing how many people mistake a certain hip snideness for sophistication.”—Thomas Sowell, 6/12/06
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4695
9:47 am
There was no tax on income until Woodrow Wilson was President. If these tax loving folks love “democracy” so much why don’t they explain why the Founders of our democracy did NOT call for a tax on income in the Constitution. And, by the way, while the federal income tax happened on Wilson’s watch it was urged (read:demanded) by the “progressive” Republican Teddy Roosevelt.
10:33 am
That a lib “enjoys” paying taxes is nothing unusual. A common theme of the left is that the government has every right to rape and pillage your paycheck as a payment for the benefits of democracy. They are seemingly incapable of understanding that much of what they take, if not most, is wasted and provides no discernable benefit to anyone ,save the government. The left has no understanding of an individual benefitting from the fruits of his own labors, they think that those fruits belong to the government. They do not understand that that position is not democracy, but, tyranny. If payment of taxes is so patriotic, are Kennedy,Pelosi, Feinstein, et al “un American” because they hide so much of their wealth behind tax shelters and trusts ? Where is the derision of those Democrats and libs whom make use of these tax avoidance mechanisms ? To some degree the existance of tax shelters is an indication of overly onerous tax burdens and the use of them by Kennedy et al is an affirmation of an oppressive tax structure.
12:02 pm
Not only that Edward but the uber wealthy like Kennedy, Kerry-Heinz, Ford, Soros et al hide their wealth behind tax shelters and trusts, but they establish these trusts to create a Collectivist industry of ‘activism’ against Individualism.
The division in America is not between red state/blue state but between Collectivism and Individualism aka between Serfdom and Freedom.
2:34 pm
Stoller is a mush-brained idiot. And, Tano, we do not live in a pure democracy, we have a republic. One other thing: you are most certainly entitled to an equal voice. You are not, however, entitled to put your hand in MY pocket to get what you want. At least not yet.
I recently had a conversation with my ultraliberal brother-in-law, in which he said that the reason I object to handing over my money and responsibility for my life to the (all-beneficent)government must be that I don’t trust my government. I barely resisted saying, “Well DUH!”
Instead, I pointed out to him that the reason this country became great is that Americans valued self-sufficiency and hard work and neither needed nor wanted the government as their nanny. He allowed as how these traits had indeed always been a part of the American ethos, but…....
These people are hopeless. They actually believe that the gubmint can run our lives better than we can. And if you object to the government taking your earnings and giving them to someone who doesn’t work, you’re a greedy, heartless elitist b*st*rd.
3:51 pm
Nick D,
Man that was beautiful, brought a tear to my eye. Our founding father would have bought you a beer and thanked you for understanding what they labored so diligently to give birth to.
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
3:54 pm
Cynthia R
What are the ten most dreaded words in the English language…........
We are from the government; We are here to help….............
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=16834
12:02 am
I understand that the House Leadership is looking for a PayGo offset for their intention of revising the AMT.
Perhaps Matt Stoller is the answer. He enjoys paying taxes, but I bet after a few extra donations to offset the Public Debt, Matt will be looking to re-register, perhaps as a Republican but definitely not a Democrat.
12:32 am
Submitted for Your Approval…
First off… any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here. Die spambots, die! And now… here are all the links submitted by members of the Watcher’s Council for this week’s vote. Council li…
8:58 am
[...] Right Wing Nut House, “Confession: I Hate Democracy†[...]
1:34 pm
If Mr. Stoller enjoys paying taxes so much, he is welcome to pay mine anytime he wants.
Government is the only organization who provides mandatory services and makes forced capital investments at the expense of successful people. Some government services necessary – national defense, currency & legal system. Some capital investments can only be done by government – national parks, transportation and utility infrastructure.
In my view, the government has assumed a much larger role than is necessary. The private sector can provide most services much more efficiently than the government.
10:18 am
[...] Feed the monster Last week, when I paid my taxes, I had three thoughts jostling for primacy in my brain: 1. I hate funding pork. 2. I’m glad I live in a well-functioning country and my tax dollars help. 3. Even though I’m scrupulous in obeying the law, I hope the IRS doesn’t hassle me. Turns out I’m not alone in these thoughts. Rick Moran, at Right Wing Nuthouse read an utterly fatuous Matt Stoller post about the joys of paying taxes (and the evil of those conservatives who rail against excessive taxes), and proceeded to savage Stoller’s thinking. It makes for very good reading, as well as (yet another) compelling argument for tax reform. [...]
12:41 am
The Council Has Spoken!...
First off… any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here, and here. Die spambots, die! And now… the winning entries in the Watcher’s Council vote for this week are Fighting Back Was Not an Option, P…
4:10 pm
Watcher’s Council results…
And now… the winning entries in the Watcher’s Council vote for this week are Fighting Back Was Not an Option, Part 2 by Big Lizards, and The Laughter in the Dark by The Belmont Club. All members, please be sure…...
8:56 pm
“The tax burden we face is a very small price to pay for the privilege of taking responsibility for our own freedom and our own society.”
I call B.S. Taking repsonsibility for our own freedom and our own society is volunteerism. Avoiding responsibility for our own freedom and our own society is writing a check to someone removed from our community both geographically and culturally to fix our local problems and then bitching when it doesn’t get done.
10:26 am
Watcher’s Council Results…
The winning entries in the Watcher’s Council vote for this week are Fighting Back Was Not an Option, Part 2 by Big Lizards, and The Laughter in the Dark by The Belmont Club. Here’s a link to the full results…...
4:53 pm
It’sreat reading all these points of view. Most are valid, yet some of these are contradictory depending on ones interpretation of certain words, such as “democracy” etc, and using definitions such as “conservative” and “liberal” as if they mean the same to everyone. The real choice is up to you. I live in Australia, and I don’t believe in working hard for someone else, so I minimise my work and pay as little as possible. A percentage of nothing is nothing.
Work less, live life and be happy.
P.S. I even take the dole when I can and deplete the beast of some of it’s “blood”. Many civilisations have survived without government and didn’t need taxes. The collection of wealth is a target for all criminals, wherever they lurk
1:37 pm
I found some good background info on McCain’s positions here. I think you guys will like to have something to send to your liberal friends and family.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/39319-the-real-mccain-2-over-half-a-million-views-in-24-hours