The anti-war crowd has been saying for years that it is possible, indeed necessary, for the United States to simply walk away from Iraq by systematically drawing down its forces without regard to the security of the Iraqi government or people.
Also for years, I have been saying that despite monumental blunders and stupidities committed by our side, that such a scenario just wasn’t a viable option unless we could be assured of leaving behind some kind of stable government that at the very least, couldn’t be hijacked by al-Qaeda and made into a base of operations that would threaten us and our friends around the world.
I still believe that to be a viable, sensible, logical position to hold – but just barely. Once again, I feel myself “stretching” to defend a position that even just a few days ago I felt quite comfortable with.
Almost a year ago, I responded to my critics who accused me of changing my mind about Iraq by writing a post that tried to show how events can undercut long held assumptions and present you with the choice of being dishonest about how you truly feel by stretching your logic and reason in order to have your beliefs comport with your original assumptions or change the underlying assumptions on which you base your beliefs in order to reflect a new reality:
One by one, assumptions I had formed at the beginning of the war and occupation fell victim to changing realities in Iraq. This is not the same place it was 4 years ago nor is it even the same as it was a year ago. And if it has changed – if the facts, perceptions, and reality has changed, what did that do to the underlying justification for my opinions?Once I began “reaching” to justify my opinions, I got very uncomfortable. The threads of logic became more tenuous the more I examined those pesky assumptions. I realized that many (not all) of my original assumptions were basically obsolete, done in by the cruel logic of domestic politics and a growing realization that the the US military could do everything that was asked of it and more and still come up short thanks to the balking politicians in Iraq, the twisted narrative of the war being spun by the left and the Democrats, Administration failures to implement a strategy that would win the war, and a growing belief that the country was sliding out of control.
So if you’re in my shoes, what do you do? Continue to defend a position you know is becoming untenable as a result of changing realities (and new information not available at the time you formed your original assumptions)? Or do you alter your assumptions and change your opinion?
Until I got on the internet, I always believed it was the mark of a thoughtful man to constantly challenge one’s beliefs and adjust them if necessary to the changing realities of the world. This is how I went from believing in liberalism to thinking like a conservative. There came a time after college graduation where liberal dogma refused to stand the test of rigorous self-examination and I gravitated toward a much more conservative worldview. Within that conservative framework, I have altered my opinions many times regarding many issues. For instance, I am much more conservative on immigration than I was even just a few years ago while I have perhaps moderated my views on issues like affirmative action and minority set asides.
Those are small examples but telling. Think about it. What kind of idiot – right or left – would maintain a mindless belief on an issue even after the original assumptions on which they based that conviction have been superseded by events or a different set of facts?
The situation in Iraq at the moment is quite fluid and not beyond repair. A return to some kind of status quo albeit with a weakened Maliki and suddenly ascendant al-Sadr is possible. But I think that some of those underlying assumptions about Iraq that I held just a week ago have proven themselves to be changing – and not for the better.
To wit:
1. It was always an assumption that the Iraqi militias would have to be destroyed or neutralized in order for peace and security to come to Iraq.
But 6 days of fighting in Basra shows that Iraqi army incapable of doing either. And any political solution regarding the militias would necessarily put them on the police force or in the army where their loyalties would always be suspect.
2. It has been an assumption from the beginning that the Iraqi army was capable of “standing up” without American assistance so that we could safely draw down our forces.
I don’t believe the Iraqi army did that badly in Basra. There are enough credible reports that they stood up to some pretty vicious assaults by the Mehdis and may, in some instances, have been facing an enemy with superior arms including heavy weapons not in their arsenal. What is clear is that the spin on this battle has been incredible. Reports of “defections” by the army to the Mehdis have been wildly exaggerated while every temporary setback by the Iraqi army was given glowing coverage.
But their performance was nevertheless disappointing. Their inability to make much headway against the Mehdi in most neighborhoods and their reliance on American and British air power shows that they still have a long way to go before they can handle internal security for the country much less beat off an invading army from Iran or Syria.
How much more training can we give them? My military friends who read this site will no doubt tell me that it is a very difficult task to build an army from scratch and that leadership on the battlefield is a difficult commodity to recognize and encourage. I will buy that notion but will also point out that there is a political clock ticking here at home and performances like that shown in Basra by the Iraqi army do not engender confidence that they can “stand up” before time runs out and Congress (or a new president) pulls the plug.
3. It has been an assumption that Malki could unite the country despite dragging his heels on reconciliation measures.
This is one that has been slipping away for months. In fact, Maliki is proving to be not a uniter but a divider, interested in pursuing power for his coalition at the expense of other Shia parties and the Sunni minority. This was certainly a large part of the rationale he used for entering Basra in the first place. And in the end, it may be his undoing.
4. It has been an assumption that al-Sadr must die.
Mookie may have become too large a player in Iraqi politics to take him out. He and his party have become the “agents of change” in the south where precious little has been done with regards to reconstruction of basic services like electricity and sewage. His power in the national government may be small but the power of the national government is nothing to shake a stick at. If nothing else, he has become a powerful regional actor who both the US and Maliki must now deal with. His ties to Iran notwithstanding, perhaps it is time to if not embrace him, at least stop trying to kill him and the Mehdi. In other words, turn a huge negative into a slightly net positive.
5. It has been an assumption that the Kurdish north is not a big problem and that we can allow the Iraqis to deal with security in that area.
This is definitely one of those assumptions that is changing. Al-Qaeda has made its presence known in Mosul and Kirkuk while a low intensity conflict between Shias and Kurds for control of the vital oil center of Kirkuk has been going on for almost a year. Is there anything the US can reasonably be expected to do to alter that situation?
6. It has been an assumption that the US must stay in Iraq in order to kill the remnants of al-Qaeda.
This is probably the strongest argument for maintaining a large combat force in Iraq. But the Sunni militias have proven that they are very effective in securing their neighborhoods against al-Qaeda attacks while also rooting out terrorist cells on their own. Will we soon get to a point where the Sunnis can “stand up” so we can “stand down?”
These are just a few of the underlying assumptions about Iraq that most reasonable people, I believe, would have to say are in flux at the moment. Does this mean I believe we should walk away from Iraq? Not at this point. But unless some of these basic assumptions about our role as occupier and friend of Iraq can be changed for the better, I can certainly envision a day where such a course of action would become self-evident.
8:22 am
At least you challenge your own positions on a regular basis. IMO that’s the hallmark of an intelligent person.
Not according to most people on the internet – blogs, boards, discussion groups. Changing your mind or even questioning orthodoxy especially on Iraq will get you branded as a weak minded traitor (or stooge). It’s why until this past week I rarely wrote about Iraq over the last year. Just not worth the bull coming from both left and right.
ed.
10:39 am
[...] Right Wing Nut House has some analysis of our future in Iraq. Well worth the read. Related PostsProtests allowed in Iraq? Despite Ahmadinejad, progress is being made.Linkfest Monday: Some perspectives on the situation in IraqHarry Reid still sore about the Surge.Press confused/unwilling on positive Iraq realitiesRep. Tom Lantos (D-CA) dies.John Hawkins Right Wing News Interview Check out all the outrageous campaign gear here! Political bumper stickers, t-shirts, parodies, and more for election 2008. Candidates and figures like John McCain, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, and Ted Kennedy! Also some Eliot Spitzer parodies! Check the anti-Obama section for shirts showing you don’t support Obama’s hate-filled pastor! [...]
10:51 am
Hi Rick.
Plese explain the apparant confusion between these two statements you made:
1)US military could do everything that was asked of it and more and still come up short thanks to the balking politicians in Iraq
2)Administration failures to implement a strategy that would win the war
10:57 am
There will be no good solution. The truth is that both sides (Republican and Democrat) have used this war for political gain- the Republicans to garner the “patriotic” vote, Democrats to beat the administration over the head with it. It is well documented that many (maybe just some) democrats actually cheer American casualties, and many Republicans unfairly question the patriotism of dissenters. Furthermore, Democrats will cheer the massacre that will occur when coalition forces withdraw and the Maliki goverment collapses- they’ll get to blame that on this administration too! If only I could believe that this war has made my country safer, or that there is hope of such, I would know where to stand. But I don’t believe that yet, so I stand with you, reevaluating my position. Thank God I don’t actually know somebody that has been killed over there, or I think the decision would be significantly easier.
11:19 am
“His ties to Iran notwithstanding”
One reality that needs to be recognized is that Iran doesn’t just have a dog in this race, they have all the dogs. Keep in mind that while Sadr may have ties to Iran the people he was fighting in Basra, the ISCI and the Badr Corp are creations of Iran and are more supportive of Iranian goals than al-Sadr.
11:40 am
It is very nearly impossible… to become an educated person in a country so distrustful of the independent mind.
J. A. Baldwin
2:32 pm
We are already fighting WWIII, we just don’t know it. Who will win? International Facism. Iraq is a tool.
1:40 am
“There are enough credible reports that they stood up to some pretty vicious assaults by the Mehdis and may, in some instances, have been facing an enemy with superior arms including heavy weapons not in their arsenal.”
It is now five years since the invasion. The Iraqi army still lacks heavy weapons, artillery, air power, tanks, just about everything except AKs. Without these there is no chance of operating without heavy backup from the US. Are we sending them tanks and training them in their use? Of course not. For one thing they might turn them on us (some allies, eh) for another if they actually became a fully operational military then we would be able to pack up and go home.
Even with your changes of mind, you still haven’t come to the fundamental realisation that there never was a plan for withdrawl because leaving huge permanent bases in Iraq always was the plan. No-one in the current administration is looking for a way out of Iraq, win or lose.
5:54 am
Tuesday Links…
Link to Maggie’s Farm or we will drown these puppies. (Thanks to Sipp for this excellent blog marketing concept from his I’m the only serial killer in MA)"I’m just so sick of this world, and Obama can fix it." Cinnamon. Also, Obama busted…
6:35 am
I used to be a mega supporter of the Iraq war but I have changed my mind due to the fact that the police and Iraq military are NOT standing up, after 5 years and I’m afraid they are not going to stand up as long as we havc our troops there watching their backs. They have no real incentive to do it themselves.
I say bring most of our guys home, leave some troops in outposts and let the Iraq police and military finally show us what they are made of. If they fall at least we did not abandom them and if you break if you fix it scenerio doesn’t fly. We have been trying to fix this for 5+ years now.
I think the real problem here is Iran. Hold your horses, I’m not saying we need to go to war with Iran, we just need to figure out how we are going to handle them as they have been interfering in Iraq since day one.
10:16 am
George W Bush has been a great rainmaker for the jihadists. Every second we stay there we give millions reasons to see us as what we are- occupiers who are there not for their democracy but for their natural resources. There is no reason to stay except to keep from saying that the mission wasn’t accomplished.
Our soldiers are fighting on behalf of centuries old enemies.
My prediction is that Iraq as a nation will cease to exist and will fracture.
That will be the black eye on neoconservatism throughout history.
11:36 am
“George W Bush has been a great rainmaker for the jihadists.
Our soldiers are fighting on behalf of centuries old enemies.”
The enemies are centuries old BUT it’s George Bush who makes jihadists?
This is why I am no longer a ‘brain-dead liberal’; nothing a Liberal says ever makes any sense.
Answer me this oh great mercury light bulbs, if Iraq is in such a dire situation why then are all-volunteer members of the military re-upping at historical rates?
I swear, MSN really does dumb-down the stupid.
11:38 am
How come so many Americans FORGOT what happened on 9/11/2001?
1:18 pm
There will be no permanent bases in Iraq. Even if the Iraqi government approved of such a plan, the restrictions they would place on how the bases could be used would mean that these bases would have negative ulility for the US and Coalition forces.
Selling the Iraqis heavy weapons such as tanks, plances, etc is probably a good idea. Unfortunately Congress would be unlikely to approve and the media would be hysterical. Too many people have become invested in seeing us fail. Also, the Iraqis are probably don’t want to purchase weapons from us any way. This would open them up to charges of being an American puppoet, whcih they are not. The Iraqis like everyone else in the Middle East are waiting for the soon coming complete American withdrawl and they are planning accordingly. Once the Americans have withdrawn, the Iraqis can buy weapons from Russia, China, or even India. Russian and Chinese weapons are superior to American weapons any way.
4:14 pm
Rick: sigh….you didn’t listen I guess….
Rules of Holes:
1) Quit digging when you’re in over your head!
Rules of Analysis:
1) NEVER fall in “Love” with your own analysis
Basic Rules of Conclusions:
1) Go where the Facts lead, do not reach your Conclusion First, then find “Facts” to fit it!
Congrats Rick, you’ve made a Hat Trick; you’ve violated all Three, and now do so on a depressingly frequent basis concerning this issue.
Final “Rules”:
1) if you really don’t know enough about the topic to ponfificate, then don’t!
2) Rule of “Corners”: once you paint yourself into a corner by previous “analysis”, the best course of action is to STOP painting and let it dry; do NOT keep on painting! No matter how many coats you keep re-applying, in order to cover up your mistake, you’re still stuck in the corner, and cannot extract yourself!
4:56 pm
Why would anyone with an IQ got to Maggies farm?
It’s a nest of extremist wingnuts dressed as Vermont commune dwellers.
No thinking person would give those GOP cum swallowers a single hit.
5:19 pm
Rick: I’ll add a few other comments.
Rules of Opinions: everybody has one…..and you know the rest!
Rick, you run a Blog, you’re entitled to your own opinion, obviously, and you can post whatever you want, obviously, and that is not me in a patronizing way “giving you permission” or anything; I’m just stating the obvious.
However, the reason why I’m so distressed with you on this particular issue, is that not only are you “wrong”, but that your “opinion” like most other Bloggers, is based upon what you read, and interpret via various Media outlets!
Rick, DON’T EVER believe what you read in the newspaper@
I learned that lesson early in life, I was 10 years old, living in Benin City, Nigeria, before, during, and after the Biafran Civil War.
No TV there, no video games, computers, Internet, etc.
We did have a big old radio in a wooden cabinet, and we could get the VOA and BBC every evening, and once a week, we went to the Lebanese owned “Cinema” to watch either a James Bond flick or some 4 hour Bollywood tour de force with 10 dances, 20 songs and NO kissing!
So, a precocious kid like me had to READ to stay sane. I started with Newsweek and Time and National Geo and Encyclopedia’s and anything Arthur Conan Doyle and Edgar Rice Burroughs and Agatha Christie and James Carr and Frederich Pohl and went on from there.
It was interesting, reading the weeklies, like Newsweek and Time, and seeing them talk about the starvation in the streets of Benin City and the Biafran Rebels murdering people in the center of the town when in fact I WAS sitting in the center of Benin, reading the article, and not once in five+ years did I ever see a starving Nigerian or the Biafran Rebels murder anyone on the streets because they were about 120 miles AWAY, but you’d never know that fom Time and Newseek or the other Leftist even back then “rags”, as they ran that same picture over and over again of the same 3 – 4 starving Ibo kids they got from down in the Port Harcout area somewhere.
Later one, when I was a teenager and going to University in Cairo, I watched the US and Canadian press show up about once a year, and DEMAND from their various Embassies FIRST CLASS accomodations and easy access etc., and even once, when the limo didn’t show up on time at Cairo International Airport, the Embassy Rep was blatantly told: “You’ll see a negative story about the Embassy and what you do here on the 6pm National news tomorrow, because you didn’t treat us right…”, and they were right, the ran a bogus story the next day, to pay the Embassy back.
Then, there was the time I was in Northern Iraq, counting the graves of slaughtered Kurdish kids, and mapping out over 250 Kurdish villages that had been bulldozed into the ground by Saddam’s genocide against the Kurds (there were over a 1000 such villages, I just got to document only 250 in person, however); and we had a Iraqi Nuclear Scientist defect to us, and were trying to get him out of the country.
Some idiot Army Officer (I was a Marine) decided he’d suck up to the NPR reporters who were roaming around, and “leak” the info to them; they showed up at midnight, and asked me to verify it, because of what I was doing.
I told them, Off the record, that I couldn’t confirm or deny it, then they proceeded to reveal all the idiot Army guy told them, and it was EVERYTHING; I couldn’t believe.
Anyway, asked them what they were going to do with that info, and they said “Publish it of course”, and I said do you realize that by doing that, you’re putting him, his entire family, the family he had to leave behind in Baghdad, and even us in danger? Is that worth it to you?
Their answer to me, unsurprisingly, I guess? “Doesn’t matter, the American people NEED to know!”
I told them, “No, the American people don’t NEED to know, YOU NEED to have your name on a Headline”, and walked away!
Anyway, I tell you all this boring stuff Rick, because I have over 30 years direct, hands on experience, with this apart of the world, and though I’m no longer active duty, I have dozens of my peers who are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and I get the unvarnished, accurate scoop of what’s going on, on a weekly basis!
I KNOW, and it’s NOT what’s in the press, and it’s not open to leftist spin, nor Rightist isolationism.
By the way, you can’t label me a “Righty” Rick, I’m a registered and proud Independent, and I’ve done something that most people in this country don’t do!
I choose my Presidential Candidate based upon who I think is, and will be the best for America!
I could care less about abortion, or the bogus class warfare populism crap, or the bogus economy is in a recession crap, or that the Anti-American Leftist Europeans don’t love us any more bogus meme (I’ll tell you about my 3 years in Spain and 2 years in Okinawa sometime, BEFORE Bush was ever President, and we’ll see how that bogus line stacks up!).
I ONLY care about “America”, so labelling me a “righty” just doesn’t work. I do’t go to Church, I don’t pray, I don’t care about abortion; though I do think that if other people care about those things, good for them, they’re free to choose.
Bottomline is this Rick, you’re making judgements, on the Iraq war, thru a VERY narrow prism of knowledge and experience of said War, garnered from an even MORE narrow prism of oepn source information that you interpret to come to your conclusions.
It’s not a good way to evaluate such a critical issue, especially when you wield the power of the pen so to speak, by running an influential Blog, and thus you are capable of swaying other people to your opinions with that Bully Pulpet!
I’ll just throw one measure of success out there for you about Iraq, that is completely absent any MSM, or Blog, etc.
Yesterday, a Marine was killed in Al Anbar province of Iraq, the home of the “Sahawa” or Awakening as you probably know.
He was the Fourth Marine, total, killed in Iraq, in the past completed three months.
Yes, that’s right, FOUR US Marines have been killed in Al Anbar, in the past three months!
Every casualty of ours, and any innnocent Iraqi,is a Tradegy Rick, but you have to keep thisi in Military significant terms.
Four Marines, three months, Al Anbar, KIA.
If you go back a total of Six months, there have not been 8 Marines KIA in all of Iraq, which is Al Anbar as their AOR, in the past six months. Three of those occurred in Oct, one in December; 2 in Jan, one in Feb, and this last one in March. So, in essence, since the New Year, there have been a total of 4 Marine KIA in Al-Anbar. Just over one per month in the last three months, and the last six months.
In the six months before that, there were 56 Marines killed in Al Anbar!
And in the six months before that, there were 132 Marines killed in Al Anbar!
Geez Rick, is that progress, or no?
The Left refrain is that the violence in Iraq has only subsided a bit, because Al Sadr called a “ceasefire”!
Geez Rick, IF that is the case, how do you account for a 132 – 56 – 8 reduction in casualties (by the way, that includes KIA’s and non-combat casualties!) during those six month intervals, among the SUNNIS of Al Anbar, because the Shiite As Sadr called for a “ceasefire”??
To address on other critism of the Surge, its that we bought off thugs, former insurgents and criminal gangs by bribing them!
Well, if that’s the case, and the Sahawa is nothing more than a bunch of bought-off mercenaries, they sure have carried out their task, which is keeping American Forces relatively safe, for the past six months, which is NOT the hallmark of a bunch of cowardly paid-off thugs and mercenaries.
IT’S a WAR Rick, people die, and victory is hardly every complete or clean, if you knew anything about Military History, you’d know that.
To “win” WWII, we had to Nuke two Japanese cities, we had to turn Sicily in effect over to the Mafia to control, and we had to allow the Rightist, racist, nationalist Power Structure in Japan, that was responsible for the horrific War Crimes of the Rape of Nanking and Rape of Manila, among others, in order to bring the war to an early end!
NOT good stuff, morally questionable stuff, but done nonetheless to end it sooner rather than later.
And guess what Rick, 60 YEARS LATER, we’re still there, and in Germany, and in Italy, and in Holland and in Belgium and in the UK for gosh’s sake!
We can’t solve 1400 years worth of Ethnic, Religious, Tribe, Clan and other problems in Iraq, in Five years!
But what is MOST important, is that we have STARTED; we’ve started a complete Paradigm shift in the Religion and Politics of the Middle East; which was DESPERATELY needed, if you know anything at all about the ideology, theology and longrange plans of the Jihadis.
We started it, and we CANNOT quit now, because you, and others like you, and the Left in this country, lack the long-range vision to see what we are up against, or the testicular fortitude for a fight!
Ask Prime Miminister Quisling or Neveille Chamberlain about that!
Anyway, Rick, that’s my 2cents, though I know I haven’t convinced you on iota. When people fall in love with their own analysis, and paint themselves into a corner, especially when they’re Bloggers, they never admit they’re wrong, they just keep Blogging away to keep up the facade to their supporters.
That’s fine, as I said, it’s your Blog, you can and will do as you wish, of course; it does not however make you “right”, nor does it even connote that you have a avery large prism at all, from which to responsibly analyze this situation.
7:07 pm
I have to agree with Dale somewhat, Rick. You may be invested in your own analysis. When you describe Maliki above, you could have been talking about Abraham Lincoln. It’s a little early to declare Maliki a complete failure. I would think that it may be a good thing that the national leader can’t solve all Iraq’s problems. Not everyone gets a George Washington right off the bat.
I’m not all that concerned about the Iraqi Army’s lack of heavy weapons either. They need to learn to walk before they run. Read accounts of our performance in Africa in 1942. We didn’t dazzle anyone with our combined arms operations. It’s taken us more than 60 years to reach the levels of military proficiency we enjoy today. Let’s give the Iraqis a little time, shall we?
As far as the IA’s performance, as far as I can tell, the action in Basra is theirs all the way. If they aren’t quite up to snuff, well, at least they aren’t getting their capital burnt like we did in 1812. Again, look at our performance early in WWII. We were incompetent. We got better, though it cost us dearly. We took our lumps and learned from our mistakes. Let’s give them the same chance. I’ve read that it takes ten years to train your noncommissioned officers to the point where they are the backbone that you need for a modern army. The Iraqis have had five. Maybe we’re expecting too much, too fast.
9:31 pm
If we look at it this way…Iraq has a Shiite majority regarding population. They are likely to control the government via democracy.
Iran is Shia dominated and in power. They have elections of some kind where the opposition is hamstrung to the point of being at least disenfranchised, but still in control.
We can then expect Iraq and Iran to become cozy. Who then becomes our ally against terrorism?
I suggest that these people transcend the borders that have been foisted upon them. And these borders have not much history. Move the goalposts all you want, and still find yourself with the short end of the stick. An inflated view of the Monroe Doctrine, hubris with a capital H. It’s not easy being a superpower.
11:45 pm
@MooseHa:
“Hi Rick.
Plese explain the apparant confusion between these two statements you made:
1)US military could do everything that was asked of it and more and still come up short thanks to the balking politicians in Iraq
2)Administration failures to implement a strategy that would win the war”
Don’t mean to speak for Rick, but the statements made sense to me by distinguishing between “US Military” and “Administration”. The Military is not the Administration—they are the soldiers that perform and accomplish military objectives. Since the Administration has no strategy for winning (aside from just hoping everything gets better), the military can be ordered to fight enemy X, take control of location Y, train people Z . . . and while they may successfully accomplish those tasks, none of those tasks will cause the Iraqi politicians to get their act together. The military wil win the battles, but the war will be lost because the Iraqi politicians aren’t coming together like the Administration just assumed they would. No Iraqi political progress, no end to the war, and the military “wins” but the Admin loses.
@ Syn:
“How come so many Americans FORGOT what happened on 9/11/2001?”
I sure haven’t forgot. Not really sure what that has to do with the war in Iraq . . . since Hussein and “freeing the oppressed Iraqis” had/have absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 strike. Remember AQ? Bin Laden? Y’know . . . the people that actually committed the crime? Or did you FORGET what happened on 9/11/2001?
9:27 am
[...] Right Wing Nut House, “Can We Just Walk Away From Iraq?” [...]
3:39 pm
“And guess what Rick, 60 YEARS LATER, we’re still there, and in Germany, and in Italy, and in Holland and in Belgium and in the UK for gosh’s sake!”
Ahem. And WHY are we still there? To keep German, Italian, Dutch, and Belgian forces from killing each other? No. We are there to protect our friends in those countries from aggressive forces and to protect our interests(remember the Cold War?). If there were still hot wars going on in any of those places, do you think the U.S. citizens would allow our soldiers to be continually killed for 60 years? If you believe this, I can get you one hell of a deal on the Brooklyn Bridge.
And
“We can’t solve 1400 years worth of Ethnic, Religious, Tribe, Clan and other problems in Iraq, in Five years!”
Nor can we in 500 years. Islamic militants and the overall deep division between the Sunni and the Shia will never be placated by the actions of the U. S. military. Dale, you, like Rick, will eventually have to spit out the neo-con Kool-Aid that promotes any idea of “victory” in Iraq. It won’t happen.
6:26 pm
Nor can we in 500 years. Islamic militants and the overall deep division between the Sunni and the Shia will never be placated by the actions of the U. S. military. Dale, you, like Rick, will eventually have to spit out the neo-con Kool-Aid that promotes any idea of “victory” in Iraq. It won’t happen.
I really wouldn’t expect any other type of reply from an Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist Democrat Liberal Nutbag!
You’re hoisted on your own treasonous petard!
9:17 am
Hello Rick:
I think that there are some facts that invalidate some of your assumptions and I deem this topic sufficiently important that I posted a response far too lengthy to include as a comment. If you are interested:
I have finally finished the response I wanted to make to your post and Rick’s post. What it boils down to is that I think there are additional facts that lead me to believe that your assessment and Rick’s assessment are flawed.
This is not intended as any sort of personal criticism. I post my response only because this is a critical topic worthy of discussion.
That said, I welcome your thoughts, criticisms and analysis.
http://wolfhowling.blogspot.com/2008/04/assumptions-conclusions-about-sadr.html
12:09 am
[...] Can We Just Walk Away From Iraq? Right Wing Nut House [...]
11:07 am
It appears you may need to take yet another look, as the “facts” seems to keep changing and new developments make old assumptions obsolete.
11:28 pm
Prior to May 1940 no one would have bet on a German vctory in the West considering the vaunted French Army and the combined armies of the West. After June this changed. Happily Churchill wasn’t by Mr. Moran’s definition a sane individual whose beliefs were determined by every stiff breeze. Had he subscribed to such a philosophy no sane individual fighting alone against the might of the Nazis would have turned down the Nazi peace offer and risked fighting alone against overwhelming odds.
Fortunately, history demonstrates time after time that free men fighting for a just cause will triumph. It does require stout men and men who have clear visions and are not plagued with self doubts. Hopefully we will have more Churchills and fewer individuals who revise their views due to the change in fortunes or the direction of the wind.