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5/15/2008
AREN’T THERE ANY GROWN UPS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?


Lefties speak out against Bush calling Obama policies “Appeasement”

That wet spot you see forming under the chair of Will Bunch, Michael D., and even the normally reasonable Joe Gandleman is a sure sign that the brand of diapers these people are using just ain’t cuttin’ it. Might I suggest “Huggies Super Absorbent” for those times – like now – when you need that extra protection against leaks and overflow?

What has many on the left squirming in their toddler seats due to the uncomfortable dampness in their tush was a speech made by our President to the Israeli Knesset celebrating the State of Israel’s 60th birthday.

Now it is probably a good thing that no one asked our President to blow out the candles on the cake since his wind is probably not what it was a few years ago – having expended all that hot air in the meantime telling us what a success his excellent adventure in Iraq had become. But no matter. Bush delivered a speech to a people under daily threat of terrorism that was designed to reassure them that America would not sell Israel down the river in the interests of making peace with other, less friendly regimes in the region.

This is pro-forma stuff when it comes to an American president speaking in Israel, hardly headline grabbing fodder for the wires. Except Bush added a little something extra – a necessary warning given we have a putative candidate for president whose ideas about diplomacy include sitting down with Syria and Iran “without preconditions” and talk about peace in the Middle East.

It does no good to try and deny Obama said this and meant it. It was not taken out context, twisted, distorted, or otherwise folded, spindled, or mutilated in any way. If the candidate wants to change his position that’s fine. He can say he made a mistake, that he realizes now he should probably have thought that answer to the debate question through a little more.

But no. Obama insists he never said what he obviously said – in other words, either a man divorced from reality or a bald faced liar. And of course, his worshipful sycophants on the left have bought into this ludicrousness. Hillary has been using this very same idea of Obama wanting to talk to Assad and Ahmadinejad without preconditions as a hammer to demonstrate her opponents lack of foreign policy (one could add it also demonstrates a lack of sanity but that might be for a shrink to decide).

At any rate, Bush had this to say about Obama’s scathingly brilliant idea:

“Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along,” said Bush, in what White House aides privately acknowledged was a reference to calls by Obama and other Democrats for the U.S. president to sit down for talks with leaders like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

“We have heard this foolish delusion before,” Bush said in remarks to the Israeli Knesset. “As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American Senator declared: ‘Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.’ We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.”


Many on the left went into apoplectic fits, bringing out the most laughable, over the top, insanely over dramatized rhetoric we’ve seen from them in – oh, about 48 hours.

Will Bunch:

But what Bush did in Israel this morning goes well beyond the accepted confines of American political debate, When the president speaks to a foreign parliament on behalf of our country, his message needs to be clear and unambiguous. Our democracy may look messy to outsiders, and we may have our disagreements with some sharp elbows thrown around, but at the end of the day we are not Republicans or Democrats or liberals or conservatives.

We are Americans.

And you, Mr. Bush, are the leader of us all. To use a diplomatic setting on foreign soil to score a cheap political point at home is way beneath your office, way beneath your country, and way beneath the people you serve. You have been handed an office once uplifted to great heights by fellow countrymen from Washington to Lincoln to Roosevelt to Eisenhower, and have plunged it so deeply into the Karl-Rove-and-Rush-Limbaugh-fueled world of political destruction and survival of all costs that have lost all perspective—and all sense of decency. To travel to Israel and to associate a sitting American senator and your possible successor in the Oval Office with those who at one time gave comfort to an enemy of the United States is, in and of itself, an act of political treason.


First of all, there was nothing cheap about that political point. That, sir, is a 100 carat, gold plated, diamond encrusted, million dollar zinger of political shot.

Secondly, I note that many on the left really hate it when you bring up appeasement. They curse Chamberlain for turning it into a dirty word. After all, Sir Neville had the right idea, just the wrong execution. Now if we were to negotiate with Hitler today, we wouldn’t make the same mistakes Chamberlain did, say the lefties. We would have gotten an arms control deal first and tied it in with concessions on the Sudetenland. And, of course, recognizing the Nazi sphere of influence in that part of Europe with all those little countries and their unpronounceable names would have been a price for making peace. But anything is better than a World War, right?

Obama was not long in responding with a carefully measured, balanced statement…Just kidding! He whined like a 5 year old who is told he must go to bed early:

It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel’s independence to launch a false political attack. It is time to turn the page on eight years of policies that have strengthened Iran and failed to secure America or our ally Israel. Instead of tough talk and no action, we need to do what Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan did and use all elements of American power – including tough, principled, and direct diplomacy – to pressure countries like Iran and Syria. George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the President’s extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel.

“Extraordinary politicization of foreign policy?” Holy Christ! Only a dimwit doesn’t think what the Democrats have been doing for 5 years in Iraq and this entire campaign season isn’t using foreign policy as a political club to beat this president and the GOP over the head. Is he really that stupid. Are his followers really that naive? Of course not! They know full well that they’ve been politicizing foreign poicy – which makes Obama’s and Free Willy’s whining all the more hypocritical.

And I wonder if Willy Boy’s outrage extends to calling to account ex-presidents or ex-vice presidents who regularly go on foreign soil and all but call the president of the United States a traitor. Where the f**k are you people when those two characters pop up in Switzerland, or Saudi Arabia, or Great Britain and make the most personal, hurtful, politically motivated attacks on Bush?

Spare me your fake outrage. When you come around to criticizing Carter and Gore for the swipes in foreign countries they’ve taken at Bush then you may have earned yourself a measure of standing to hurl your infantile charges at Bush.

This is the mindset Obama would have going into talks with Assad and Ahmadinejad. Assad will make peace with Israel if we let him back into Lebanon – bottom line. Delusions to the contrary are not allowed. Would sacrificing Lebanon on the altar of the Obama Doctrine be acceptable?

The trouble is, the Israelis don’t think so. They might be wondering if the American president might sell them out for a deal on Iranian nukes or something else – perhaps peace in Iraq. Given the extraordinary pro-Palestinian bias of many of his advisors, why would this be so shocking?

The Israelis aren’t stupid. You don’t live to be 60 and face what they’ve had to face from the minute of their birth without a keen sense of who their friends are. And when the Israelis see their mortal enemy Hamas embracing Obama’s candidacy, they might be wondering who this fellow is and just what does he have in store for Israel if he gets elected.

Bush was chastising Obama as an appeaser before an audience that understood better than anyone else on the planet what appeasement can lead to. It is now up to Obama to prove that he understands the threats facing us and our allies. It is time for him to abandon his idea to meet with Assad and Ahmadinejad without preconditions by making it clear that he misspoke during the debate and that upon reflection, he realizes he erred and that he now supports a much more cautious approach.

He won’t do it, of course. Why should he when he has the New York Times running interference for him, telling the world that what he said, he didn’t actually say? Instead, we will get more whining from the candidate of “change.”

Bush zinged Obama by pointing out the obvious shortcomings of his proposed policy. It might not be appeasement – at least the left wouldn’t use that word. It would be “constructive engagement” or some other mealy mouthed words dreamed up by our striped suit, topped hat nitwits at Foggy Bottom. The number one issue is would Obama sell out Israeli security for a deal elsewhere – either with Syria and Iran. We don’t know the answer. The Israelis don’t know the answer. And Obama himself probably doesn’t either.

If these lefties would stop their fake whining jag long enough to look at it from the perspective of the Israelis, some of us might start believing the grownups had returned to the Democratic party’s foriegn policy team.

So far, no such luck.

By: Rick Moran at 3:21 pm
39 Responses to “AREN’T THERE ANY GROWN UPS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?”
  1. 1
    RememberNovember Said:
    3:51 pm 

    Ah, sagacious words from our Feckless Leader on Foreign Policy…Tell me something Rick, if you were the opposition and the constant revelation on a daily basis that this war is costing America its world financial and integral standing, wouldn’t you pick up that ball?
    This is all pre-game nonsense anyway- the proof is in the pudding, and speculation is like a rocking chair- it’s a nice place to sit but you go nowhere.

  2. 2
    Gayle Miller Said:
    4:13 pm 

    The pampered darlings of the left are in a dither because the President of the United States, a man they love to revile (baselessly) has bluntly spoken the truth about the appeasers from the left wing of the Democratic Party and how their asinine whining endangers this nation and they can dish out the shit but they sure can’t take it. Oh boo hoo and who gives a damn. Take your Huggies and hit the road if you can’t take the heat.

  3. 3
    Today’s ‘Truism Of The Day’ - In Response To Team Obama’s Response To President Bush’s Comments | Technophobiac News Pinged With:
    4:57 pm 

    [...] the entire world knows by now, thanks to Team Obama and Democrats-in-force “wetting” all over themselves in their screaming rush to defend him, the Dems have gone nuts over what Peter Wehner describes as [...]

  4. 4
    MarkJ Said:
    5:21 pm 

    RememberNovember:

    “Tell me something Rick, if you were the opposition and the constant revelation on a daily basis that this war is costing America its world financial and integral standing, wouldn’t you pick up that ball?”

    Question: When did your crowd start giving a s*** about America’s world financial and integral standing anyway? I spent 20 years in the Air Force, and been watching the political scene for over 30 years, and, whoa, this is all news to me.

  5. 5
    Neo Said:
    5:22 pm 

    Who knew that Obama was so sensitive ?

    Ever time somebody talks .. they aren’t necessarily talking about you .. except when your name is Obama

  6. 6
    daveinboca Said:
    5:30 pm 

    Obama simply makes things up almost as though he wants to please whomever is in the audience. If he’s in front of libtards in SF, he talks about “bitter…clinging.” If he’s in front of lefty foreign policy institutes like the ones feeding the Dems their pablum, he spouts one-world nostrums and “why can’t we all get along?” mantras.

    I’m afraid this impressionable young man should spend a few more years growing up and learning that the world has a few countries like Syria [where Pelosi plucked the hem of Stick-Insect Assad’s robe=a wannabe terrorist & a doobee one in Lebanon], Iran, N. Korea, The Socialist Party of the Union of Burma now selling the UN & US aid on the black market, Cuba, and a few other failed-states like the one his father defected from [though Kenya is hanging on by a thread.]

    Dennis Kucinich can say this stuff—-from his alien advisors’ mouth to his ear, but Obambi has to remember that there is a forest fire out there smoldering—-metaphor alert!!

  7. 7
    sashal Said:
    5:34 pm 

    Neville Bush has been a huge appeaser of North Korea, how many tons of food and barrels of oil do we send to prop up that evil regime all so they don’t sell nuclear WMD’s to other nations? I suppose when Bush appeases tyrants, it is hardheaded diplomacy.

  8. 8
    Sister Toldjah Trackbacked With:
    6:57 pm 

    Barack Obama and other reality-challenged Democrats sail down Denial River…

    …. and where they’ll stop, nobody knows.
    Earlier today, I touched on the emerging controversy surrounding comments Bush made in a speech to members of the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel’s statehood. As the story has gotte…

  9. 9
    Ragin' Dave Said:
    8:24 pm 

    More to the point, if the Israelis see that they’re about to be sold down the river by America, they’re going to do whatever they have to do in order to make sure they survive. And if that means nuking Iran, they’ll do it. The one and only thing holding back much of the Middle East from attacking Israel is the knowledge that if they attack, the USA will be there to beat them back. What happens if that threat, real or perceived, is gone?

    World War Three. Does anyone really want that?

  10. 10
    bb Said:
    9:07 pm 

    I think you insult everyone in the country when you tell the majority of the voting public, that has been voting in primaries in record numbers btw, that voting their candidate is somehow a vote for the jihadists.

    The fact is that GWB has been the jihadists biggest recruiter in decades.

    Oh and just a reminder, we were hit on Bush’s watch, even after he was warned. But in your minds ( such as they are) this was all someone else’s fault.

    And you wonder why your party is dying on the vine.

    Maybe try and have a conversation where when you disagree with someone you don’t end up calling them a traitor or a jihadist.

  11. 11
    Pug Said:
    9:08 pm 

    Rick, you are one the few wing nuts reasonable enough that there is a slight possiblility you will understand that people may get a little sensitive after being called traitors, appeasers and “anti-American” for over five years (since we are Americans and we are anti-American, I assume we oppose ourselves). That is the invective that has been hurled from the right, especially the “true conservatives”, for a long, long time now.

    However, after the Republicans lose 20 or more seats in the House and another half dozen Senate seats in November, they may finally realize that calling a majority of their countrymen traitors and appeasers is not a successful strategy. In fact, it is downright offensive and will surely be part of the reason disaster awaits. Unitl then, go ahead and follow Alfred E. Neuman off the cliff. Many of us are enjoying it.

  12. 12
    A & Q: Bad:Economy, Liturgy, Bush but not BIG O! | The Anchoress Pinged With:
    9:25 pm 

    [...] The fact that Obama heard “appeaser” and he and the whole Democrat party AND the press started weeping and gnashing their teeth over it speaks volumes – it tells you they know their weak point, and they know the chosen one needs [...]

  13. 13
    retire05 Said:
    9:49 pm 

    To quote Mitt Romney: “when you throw a rock over the fence, the dog that howls is the one that got hit”. Or something to that affect.

    Obama is a total pansy and those who back him are no more than children following the Pied Piper of Chicago. He is clueless about foreign policy thinking that a three week stint to a foreign nation while in college makes him Winston Churchill. But as Juan Williams said “you can’t question Obama on Rev. Wright. You can’t question Obama about his shady friends like William Ayers or Tony Rezko. You can’t question Obama about his policies. If you do, you will be labeled a racist pig”.

    Or something like that.

  14. 14
    retire05 Said:
    9:54 pm 

    pug, you Democrats have been trying to “cut and run” since the Democratic convention in 1864 when the Democrats wanted to negotiate with the Confederacy and let them a) leave the union and b) preserved slavery.

    And what is this fixation you lefties have with Alfred E. Newman? Or is it just your obsession with fictional characters. Too bad you don’t have any real life heroes to look up to.

  15. 15
    LogicalSC Said:
    9:59 pm 

    How is it that history’s smartest man to ever grace us with running for our leader have made such a stupid misjudgement as what your Messiah pulled off today?

    I mean we are all told that Obama is brilliant, Obama will “cleanse our souls” and Obama will give us “intellectual” leadership if we just elect him but he pulls off the most moronic move I have ever seen a candidate make? How is that possible?

    President Bush gives a memorial speech to our only true friend in the Middle East who has survived 60 years of onslaught from thugs and terrorists, during which he reaffirms the Israelis decisions not to give in appeasers who would sell Israel down the road. It didn’t have anything to do with Obama and would have passed quietly as a tribute to the resoluteness of the Israelis and the idiot Obama stands up and shouts “Don’t talk about me like that!”

    So now your saviorness has painted himself to all the world and America with that group of people who want to appease the terrorists. Great move, sherlock

  16. 16
    B.Poster Said:
    10:08 pm 

    Geprge W. Bush was not even talking about Obamaa. Leave it to Mr. Obama and his advisors to take a speech by a lame duck-figure head president to try and score political points. While Bush has been clearly been a bad president to date, this is dispicable on the part of the Obama campaign to use this speech to try and score political points.

    With this said Bush has been quite the appeaser himself. Bush expects the Israelis to negotiate with the terrorists in Fatah. Also, Bush seems to have tried to appease Syria at the expense of Lebanon. Bush seems to be a hypocrite but the speech was not directed at Mr. Obama.

  17. 17
    mannning Said:
    11:44 pm 

    Thank you, Rick, for a bang on assessment.

  18. 18
    Sgt Ryker Said:
    12:26 am 

    You bet.

    It is impossible to have a conversation with a Republican anymore. They yell over you, follow no logic, and feel if they scream talking points long enough you will eventually believe them.

    Congressional Republicans called Jack Murtha a Dottle head and a traitor.

    Listen to how that sounds. Few of his critics served.

    oy

    Yet a US Marine, who served 30 years and saw actual combat gets called coward by bloggers…I mean there is nothing I can say or do that will ever explain why you look like assholes when you do that. You cannot call a man like that a traitor because he disagrees with the President. As soon as you start saying that, you lose all credibility, and you have no purchase in making an argument.

    You laugh when Ann Coulter calls 9/11 widows ‘whores’ and then don’t understand why literally millions of Republicans held their nose and voted and millions more stayed home and millions more defected. It is this very arrogant smear and lie and win at all costs that has turned off people from the Republican Party.

    It’s not just the Democrats that are crying out at the accusation of being traitors. It is the majority opinion of the American public that has had it with your deeply hurtful personal insults that have lowered the discourse in this country. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot.

    Remember that just because you like Bush and believe Iraq was a good idea, that doesn’t mean you are right or that you have a monopoly on the truth. History will bear this out to be a tragic time in US history- probably the Dark Ages of the country. And you are on the wrong side of this battle. I see your snarky ripostes and your ‘they’re voting with the jihadist’ comments and wonder why you don’t see ahead of time how that divides us, and hurts us, and serves no purpose.

    More amazing to me, is how you don’t see how calling someone a traitor is a vacuous point of view supported with no logic or facts. That’s what you do when you call us jihadists. That is the lot you cast. And believe me, you are going to pay the price for it. Come this November, and many Novembers to come.

  19. 19
    jurassicpork Said:
    6:01 am 

    Excuse me, who’s the president of the United States?

    And since when is it appropriate for any president, legitimate or otherwise, the use Israel’s 60th birthday celebration, as an opportunity to score cheap political points in an election in which he’s not even a part?

  20. 20
    Michael B. Said:
    6:22 am 

    Damn, Rick. I didn’t know you had so many left-wing readers… did they get the wrong Nuthouse?

  21. 21
    RememberNovember Said:
    7:20 am 

    Question: When did your crowd start giving a s*** about America’s world financial and integral standing anyway? I spent 20 years in the Air Force, and been watching the political scene for over 30 years, and, whoa, this is all news to me.

    “my crowd”? ah, the ad hominem fallacy rears its ugly head early. Nice to see your knee jerk skim reflexes are working.
    By what specious assumption are you drawing that type of oppositional position? I am merely saying, that if roles were reversed, you’re “damn skippy” the same would apply. Gee I guess being in the minority makes one a bit testy. Losing your seats ( and I say this because as a former registered Republican the Republicans today bear no resemblance to the republicans of the late 80’s early 90’s) is going to happen to any elected offical when all they can do is posture and pander. Call me disenfranchised, call me Independent, call me rational. I just want my elected official to do their damn job and not sling drive-by-divisive insults on foreign soil.
    The old “It was Clinton’s fault” cry is dry and dusty. 9-11 happened 9 months into Bush’s term.
    He had Clinton’s notes, and notes from 42 other Presidents to draw on. He never studied them maybe because he wanted to write his own”test”. Terrorism has existed for hundreds of years. That’s a no brainer.

  22. 22
    No Runny Eggs » Blog Archive » The Morning Scramble - 5/16/2008 Pinged With:
    8:15 am 

    [...] Rick Moran discovers no grown-ups left in the Party of the Rat. [...]

  23. 23
    Michael B. Said:
    10:33 am 

    Sgt. Ryker said: “They yell over you, follow no logic, and feel if they scream talking points long enough you will eventually believe them” ...

    You have got to be kidding me- this is the democrat’s playbook. Where is the logic in denying that B.O. said something when there are a multitude of video records showing that he has promised bi-lateral talks with Iran w/o preconditions? As far as talking over, Hannity and Savage do that to some degree, but the majority of conservative hosts give the opposition a fair shake, which is NOT a trait of Matthews, Olby, et al.

    Sgt. Ryker said: “Congressional Republicans called Jack Murtha a Dottle head and a traitor”...

    Which congressional Republicans? If you are talking about Hastert and Carter, you’re wrong- taking the “cowardly way out” (referring to withdrawal from an armed conflict prior to securing stability) is not the same as calling Murtha a coward. However, they should have called him a corrupt, bribe-taking, troop-hating, dottering old fool. He accused innocent Marines of atrocities without the slightest proof (they were not just cleared, they were exonerated), and refuses to apologize. And serving 30 years in the military doesn’t exempt him from criticism for stupid statements.

    Ann Coulter? First of all, she called them “harpies”, not “whores”. But she represents very few true conservatives- she’s a media whore, and the media has done a good job of convincing people that she represents true conservatives.

    As far as Iraq being a “good idea”, 90% of Americans, and 77% of the Senate thought it was a good idea. I don’t regret the invasion one bit, but subsequent prosecution has admittedly been poor.

    But you and I do agree on something… the Republican party is in dire straights, but for none of the reasons you have listed. Somehow, “Republican” no longer represents smaller government and lower taxes, and until we return to those roots, we have relegated ourselves to insignificance.

  24. 24
    libarbarian Said:
    11:04 am 

    Its lame when Michael Moore gets cheap applause by bashing Americans overseas.

    Its even lamer when the President does it.

  25. 25
    libarbarian Said:
    11:07 am 

    The old “It was Clinton’s fault” cry is dry and dusty. 9-11 happened 9 months into Bush’s term.

    Don’t get me started on the “Clinton ruined our Military” screed coming from people who overlook that Bush hasn’t done anything to correct the damage in 8 years.

    If Bill Clinton forgot to flush, Republicans would leave the log floating just so they could blame Clinton for the stink.

  26. 26
    libarbarian Said:
    11:13 am 

    Listening to Republicans call anyone whiners is rich.

    Don’t you guys have another Vodka ad to get all huffy about?

  27. 27
    bb Said:
    12:18 pm 

    Michael B

    First of all the screaming smearing and swift boating are Karl Rove tactics. Not Democratic tactic. And you GOT TO BE KIDDING that conservatives don’t yell over their opponents and give them a fair break. The tactic was invented on Faux News.

    How about the 100 or so times a Republican is convicted of a crime and on Fox News he is labelled a Dem ? That’s not reasonable. That’s dirty old tricks.

    The Marines were not exonerated because some of the trials are still going on.

    The Republican party has become a pariah not because of big government. But because of corrupt and inept government. Because Republican cannot govern.

    It’s because we now torture people thanks to Republicans, and hold them without representation and counsel.

    You guys are Pariahs for starting a war based on lies, and sending all our tax dollars to Bush’s cronies and big corporations.

    Republicans have welcomesd anti catholic and anti black “macac yelling” bigots.

    I mean really. I love watching you all squirm.

    Enjoy

  28. 28
    David M Said:
    12:23 pm 

    The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 05/16/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

  29. 29
    jambrowski Said:
    12:28 pm 

    rick,
    beautiful, who knew so many leftards knew of your site, wonderful that they are reading, too bad they couldn’t leave the street talk on the street, go figure. to borrow a lib phrase, the truth of the matter is they can’t keep the story straight and they speak from emotion instead of logic. much to be said of the mook who says we cry about murtha, thank you michaelb for getting that story straight. oh well, they will get their chance to tax us into the stone age, viva the second coming of carter… history repeats itself, and we begin the cycle once again.

  30. 30
    shaun Said:
    1:11 pm 

    At least you know who Chamberlain was.

    Heh. I don’t think there’s a hole deep enough that he can crawl into to hide.

    ed.

  31. 31
    Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator Trackbacked With:
    1:33 pm 

    Amendments…

    House Democrats, defying President Bush’s threat of a veto, will offer a supplemental appropriation …

  32. 32
    Michael B. Said:
    2:14 pm 

    bb, I stand corrected! Only 5 of 8 of the accused have been exonerated. But you missed my point- Murtha condemned them PRIOR to any evidence. You also missed my point about the current state of the Republican party- by taxing, spending, increasing the size of the gov, they have become, in effect, democrats.

    But you are very typical of the far left. Intellectual discourse is impossible, because you hear only what you want to hear. Your arguments are made without evidence (e.g. “sending tax dollars to Bush cronies”, “anti-catholic”, “war based on lies”, etc.)

    I can’t keep arguing with idiots (sorry for the ad hominem), I actually have a job.

  33. 33
    Surrender Monkey Friday: Obama And Dems Protest Too Much » Pirate’s Cove — Global Warming Rules! Pinged With:
    3:10 pm 

    [...] I never got around to reading what Right WIng Nut House wrote, which is really funny That wet spot you see forming under the chair of Will Bunch, Michael [...]

  34. 34
    Rob Said:
    4:23 pm 

    LOL

    It’s a riot to see “the dumbest President ever” make the bed wetting lefties and their Messiah look like total fools.

    Bullseye W

  35. 35
    Bill Arnold Said:
    6:02 pm 

    But you are very typical of the far left. Intellectual discourse is impossible, because you hear only what you want to hear.
    The people posting here presumably at least occasionally read Rick’s posts, and engaging in left/right argument in comment sections is hardly discussion in an echo-chamber.

    And “far left”?? Disregarding the fact that from the POV of most of the developed world, the American “left” is center-right, at what percentile of the American political spectrum would you place the cutoff for “far left”?
    Bear in mind that many on the left would place BObama at about 60-70th percentile, with his instincts for compromise driving his actual policy even closer to the center. (The “most liberal Senator” tag is just B.S., a cunningly-designed statistical artifact that was also trotted out for John Kerry.)

  36. 36
    Bill Arnold Said:
    6:25 pm 

    My main objection is that Bush was conflating talk and negotiation with appeasement. And doing this in front of the Knesset – Israel has often negotiated with its mortal enemies, even compromised with them to make peace (e.g. Egypt), and continues to do so. Somehow this administration has managed to convince a large number people that initiating discussion with an enemy is a significant concession that amounts to an act of appeasement. Selective shunning is a lousy tool for prevention of conflict in a small world. (Iran will not be a universal pariah until they run out of oil.)

    American Heritage Dictionary
    appeasement …

    2. The policy of granting concessions to potential enemies to maintain peace.

    I think the dictionary definition serves us well here, Bill. The question isn’t that we shouldn’t talk to Iran and Syria – we eventually will. The question is what “concessions” we are willing to grant in order to maintain the peace. I bring up Lebanon as a perfect example. Unless the ground work is laid extraordinarily carefully a la China in ‘72, we may find ourselves in a diplomatic trap – pressured by our own process to make a deal and thus giving away something vital.

    Happened with Russia a couple of times – namely, when we gave up a huge MIRV advantage for, in the end, nothing.

    Bargaining with enemies is not about making them like us. It’s about avoiding misunderstandings that lead to war. I am not convinced entirely – although there are surely some elements in Iran who are rational – that we are dealing with a normal state when talking about Iran. The insularity of that crowd is incredible. It’s why the don’t believe the holocaust happened and all these cockamamie conspiracy theories.

    No foe we’ve ever encountered has shown this level of ignorance about the outside world. That makes them incredibly dangerous as well as almost impossible to talk to.

    This is not just a question of talking or not talking. It is a question of attitude – a question raised by Bush that has the Democrats screaming bloody murder because they recognize their attitude in those words. Both Obama and the Democrats overreacted to Bush’s criticism. But it was a telling overreaction, don’t you think?

    ed.

  37. 37
    vnjagvet Said:
    10:29 pm 

    Until January, 2009, there is only one President of the United States, and has every right to represent the USA at the Knessett.

    As I read the speech (and I read it all), he said nothing there that is inconsistent with US foreign policy for the last twenty-five years.

    I would be interested in seeing the commenters who believe W made a heinous statement quote it and tell us all where it differs from US Foreign policy from 1992-2000.

  38. 38
    Windy Wilson Said:
    12:12 pm 

    B.O. is upset about THIS? What would he do if he really were president and the criticisms come much more frequently and sharper? Or does he think that all the criticisms of Bush 2, Bush 1, and Reagan were fair and reasonable?

  39. 39
    Ed T Said:
    3:09 pm 

    The problem with what Bush said is that it is basically wrong. There is a great quote from Moshe Dayan – who knew the Middle East and was no liberal:

    “If you want to make peace, you don’t talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies. ”

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