Were you really surprised that fully 35% of Democrats believe that George Bush had foreknowledge of 9/11? Couple that with the number who “aren’t sure” (waiting for an appointment with their Tarot card reader) and you have 61% of the “Reality Based Community” who have lost touch with reality and should be declared certifiably insane.
While the 9/11 Truthers go on their merry way, ignoring the fact that their “theories” have been totally debunked by the real members of the reality based community -scientists – Democrats continue to find it useful to intimate, to hint, to give credence to, and even to come right out and say that George Bush knew about 9/11 in advance and, by inference, planned and executed the operation.
It was the hard left that first raised questions about the Kennedy Assassination and largely for the same purpose; to undermine confidence in the government. While the Warren Commission has been bruised and battered over the years, it has held up as a narrative of the assassination surprisingly well. Three separate scientific inquiries have shown that the so-called “magic bullet” could easily have made the wounds on both Kennedy and Connally, the most controversial of the Commission’s conclusions.
Other aspects of the Commission’s report have never been seriously challenged while much of the “evidence” that Oswald was involved with the FBI or CIA or the Mafia has been largely debunked. And the “hero” in Oliver Stone’s 3 hour lie of a movie JFK Jim Garrison – the rabidly ambitious, homophobic, out of control District Attorney who ruined the life of an innocent man (Clay Shaw) was exposed for the rogue prosecutor he truly was by both CBS and NBC as well as several authors, most notably Gerald Posner.
It does no good, of course, to point this out. Most young people believe Oswald was working for the American government and was either a patsy in the plot to kill Kennedy or murdered the President at the behest of the CIA or the “military industrial complex.” The damage done by this fantasizing to faith in the government (not, I hasten to add, politicians) has been irreparable. And since some of those early Kennedy truthers were actually being paid by the KGB or writing in magazines that were funded by Soviet intelligence, the disinformation campaign (which began in France with the publication in the French Communist Party newspaper L’Humanite just days after Kennedy’s funeral that Oswald was a CIA agent) succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its perpetrators.
But this meme is different because apparently, only Democrats are stupid enough to think George Bush had anything to do with 9/11. Republicans, as to be expected, reject the idea of Bush involvement by 7-1. But it is independents who close the case for Democratic Party idiocy. Only 18% believe the fantasy.
Call it BDS. Call it laughable stupidity. But every time I read one of these mountebanks bragging about being a member of the “Reality Based Community,” I’m just going to leave a link to this Rassmussen survey as proof that most of those sites should carry the disclaimer “Caveat Emptor.”
3:51 pm
The way the question is framed, it could easily mean “whether Bush had access to information that, were he to take different actions, would help prevent 9/11”—and it’s quite a reasonable assumption.
In fact, it’s indisputable fact that he did, indeed, know about a very high possibility of terrorist attack in USA. This is not about conspiracy, only about the level of competence.
3:56 pm
Without wanting to defend trutherism, I would be interested to see a similar poll regarding political breakdown and belief in creationism.
People just ain’t rational a lot of the time.
3:56 pm
Guffaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!
Right.
Whatever you say.
More reality based commentary from the reality based community.
4:03 pm
Again, do you consider thinking that Bush did not do a good job preventing 9/11 an example of conspiracy theory?
The other question is “Did the CIA Know About the 9/11 Attacks in Advance?”. The answer is, certainly, yes, it did, otherwise it would be totally useless, but it did not know enough to prevent them.
4:14 pm
The same poll gives 59% of the general population on the “Did CIA know in advance”. I can’t see any significant difference between Bush and CIA here, so, according to your logic, 59% of American population is certifiably insane. This is a bold assumption.
It’s almost a veto-proof majority, which means that, according to your logic, USA should be declared a rogue nation—the world cannot afford taking seriously a country that is dominated by lunatics.
I think it makes more sense to reconsider what the poll answers really mean.
4:42 pm
I’m not quite sure how you can interpret the question “Do you believe George Bush had advance knowledge of 9/11?” the way “Nicolay” does. In order to do so the way he poses, you’d need to suspend common sense, substitute nonsense, and construct an entire artificial and unnatural system of logic which, coincidentally, you need to do if you believe in the liberal worldview.
6:41 pm
Given the PDB titled “Osama determined to attack the US” and the Italian G-8 conference with anti-aircraft guns deployed on building roofs, both prior to 9/11, the “who could have expected this” excuse is pretty weak.
From day one of his presidency, thanks to the Clinton admin, Bush new Osama was a threat. Too bad Cheney didn’t schedule a meeting to address this until after 9/11.
7:52 pm
Rick, your point is nonsensical. Please name one mainstream Democrat who believes this (or has said anything to suggest he believes this).
You want to believe this poll because it fits comfortably with your world-view. The real question you might ask yourself, is what has this president done to turn so many people (of all affiliations) against him? Is it always being right that people find so hard to take? Are they jealous of his competence? Or maybe his humility irritates them. For the life of me, I can’t fathom it.
8:30 pm
Moonbats … barking moonbats. This left-wing black helicopter crowd is an embarassment to the human race and it extends beyond our borders to Bush and America haters. This is how bad the anti-Bush Derangement Syndrome has gotten. Blame Bush, blame America and rarely blame the real perps. Yep, liberal insanity to the core. And remember, these kooks vote!
And isn’t it interesting the lamestream media is suppressing this news about National Guard units meeting their strength levels six months ahead of schedule. Has anyone heard any major national news outlet breathing a word about this news that was released almost three weeks ago?
8:49 pm
What I find astounding is that 12% of Republicans think George Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance. You wouldn’t expect Democrats to think well of Bush, but one out of every 8 Republicans? That is crazy.
10:32 pm
Might I humbly suggest that anyone who can write that “only Democrats are stupid enough to think George Bush had anything to do with 9/11”, and then, in the very next sentence, quote statistics showing that significant numbers of Republicans and independents believe the same thing, ought to be a bit careful about saying other people “have lost touch with reality and should be declared certifiably insane.” I will also mention that the first sentence of the blog indicates that the poll question concerns whether George Bush “had foreknowledge of 9/11”, which is not the same thing as asking whether Bush “had anything to do with 9/11.”
OK, the preceding paragraph is somewhat of a cheap shot, but so is the blog entry I am responding to. People hold all sorts of beliefs that aren’t supported by the evidence. It’s hardly surprising that a belief which reflected negatively on Republicans would be more widely held among Democrats than Republicans. (I’m curious about the 14% of Republicans who believe that Bush knew about 9/11 in advance. Why are they still Republicans?) If you were to conduct a poll asking people whether the Clintons murdered Vincent Foster, I expect that you’d find that more Republicans than Democrats believe that particular piece of nonsense.
I think that pointing to the justification for invading Iraq that Bush gave in his March 17, 2003 address to the nation is not a cheap shot. As nonsense goes, there is nothing particularly spectacular about it. If someone composed a list of the 100 stupidest things posted to the internet in 2003, Bush’s address probably wouldn’t make the list. But two days after that address, Bush gave the order to attack Iraq, and because Bush was president of the United States rather than some semi-anonymous blogger writing on the internet, that order was obeyed. That is why Suskind’s article had such resonance. The concern isn’t what people are posting on the internet or telling polsters. The concern is about how the country is being run.
Bottom line: If the Democratic party nominates a presidential candidate who believes that Bush had specific advanced knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, then those of us who consider ourselves to be part of the reality based community would have to reconsider our support of the Democratic party.
6:50 am
Devo:
Cynthia McKinney is a member of COngress. Can’t get much more mainstream than that.
Howard Dean also intimated as much – several times.
Kenneth:
12% and 18% are about one would expect from the ordinary “idiot factor” in any polling. 36% is a little beyond that.
Hank:
If you don’t keep your comments on point, I will delete them.
7:30 am
I get a bit confused here. I have read that intel in possession of the CIA, MI5 and other usually-reliable agencies had some kind of information that a threat existed, but what that threat was, was not at all clear. I have also read that some knew the threat involved aircraft [sorry, no link, but I could search if you all desire me to do so]. Even so, knowing a threat exists is not the same as having prior knowledge of the actual conspiracy.
Then, there are the Truthersâ„¢ who are convinced 9/11 was a deliberate, inside-job perpetrated by the government.
Which is it?
And more confusing, is that it seems to me that the same individuals who walk around looking over their shoulders 24/7 for spying federal eyes are usually the same people who wish to see government powers expanded—regulation, nanny-statism, welfare, national health care, etc.
Maybe it’s just me …
7:30 am
Again, according to Rick’s reading, 59% of all Americans either believe or consider it possible that CIA was a part of 9/11 conspiracy. Does it make any sense at all?
Answer this simple question yourself: do you believe that Bush had no advance knowledge of 9/11? I.e., that he had no information whatsoever about the heightened possibility of major terrorist attack on US soil? You can’t really argue that he was that careless and incompetent.
7:38 am
Howard Dean suggested that Bush tried to cover up his pre-9/11 negligence on the terrorist threat. This is quite a natural assumption supported by many facts and has nothing to do with “9/11 was an inside job” craziness.
7:59 am
[...] Do you know what Democrats believe? Right Wing Nut House has the answer [...]
9:43 am
>Cynthia McKinney is a member of COngress
Cynthia McKinney was a member of Congress.
Here’s an amazing statistic, 30% of announced Republican candidates for president don’t believe in evolution.
10:24 am
Leftwing lunacy will be the end of this great nation. Unless we have a civil war first. And I am betting heavily on the Red States in this one….
10:56 am
It’s hard to say what this poll means. Nikolay could be right; it may just be a matter of survey respondents misinterpreting an ambiguous question. On the other hand, celebrity Democrats like Rosie O’Donnell and Charlie Sheen have endorsed Truther ideas, so maybe this sort of conspiracy-mongering has gone mainstream.
Of course, paranoia in American politics is nothing new. During the McCarthy era, the political right was paranoid; to a lesser extent this was also true in the Clinton years. (Remember Mena Airport? Clinton as a Soviet operative? All those Arkansas “murders”?) A fair percentage of Americans have always been rather peculiar in their poll responses and voting patterns. How many people voted for Perot in 1992 even after it was obvious that he was nuttier than a Snickers bar?
11:30 am
Rick:
Point well taken re: Cynthia McKinney. But she’s not a mainstream Democrat. Prominent perhaps, but hardly mainstream.
My larger point, of course, is that you’re using those poll results to generate more heat than light. Do Democrats (mainstream or otherwise) really believe that in significant numbers? I think you know the answer.
12:19 pm
Here are some video links to the editors of Popular Mechanics debating the “Loose Change” 9/11 Truther crowd. It’s really sad to watch normally intelligent people looking like excapees from the Bellvue Sanitarium. We also musn’t forget the conspiracy within a conspiracy which claimed it was a rocket which hit the Pentagon on 9/11 and not Flight 77. We don’t know if Karl Rove fired the rocket or not.
Popular Mechanics had previously debunked some of the more of the more general claims of the 9/11 Truthers here, but I’ve run into so-called mainstream liberals who are “Truthers” and claim Popular Mechanics has been “bought off.”
As to the Kennedy Conspiracy theories, I believe the History Channel did a pretty bang-up job of debunking most of those theories, including the “single bullet couldn’t have hit Kennedy and Connelly without violating the laws of physics” and there supposedly was high-tech audio proof that there were four shots and not three, etc. What is it about invoking “the laws of physics and liberal conspiracy theorists? Rosie O’Donnell recently claimed “fire melting steel” somehow violates the laws of physics
As to the Kennedy bullet conspiracy theory, what the proponents don’t realize is the bullet used came from an Italian Carcano which in this case used a round-nosed bullet that is notoriously stable and capable of over-penetrating a target, if it doesn’t hit bone, because of that inherent stability. If a person understood where President Kennedy actually sat – higher and slightly to the right of Connelly in the front seat – it is entirely possible from the angle it was fired for the bullet to have hit Kennedy where it did, travel through his body and then hit Connelly where it did all in a straight line! The History Channel experts had a computer generated re-enactment to prove their case … but then they’re probably are being payed off by the powers that be, right?
As to the open-mike on the police motorcycle that supposedly recorded four shots instead of three, the conspiracy theorists audio software placed the motorcycle less than a half a block behind President Kennedy’s motorcade. However, subsequent tests by debunkers put the motorcycle policeman a full block behind Kennedy’s convertible which strongly suggests that a the angle he was in relationship to the shots being fired from the depository, the fourth “shot” was really an echo.
What’s sad are those people who believe in such conspiracy theories or even in the “Bush lied” meme, is they will go to their graves believing what they do even if God himself were to come down and tried to straighten them out. So much for liberals being “open-minded” – it looks like all the wrong things get into those kinds of minds. Far better to be fair-minded and having no axe to grind. But conservatives have their own oxes than can be gored, too.
12:20 pm
Ooops.
12:33 pm
The public watch TV and read print media that are repleat with Anti-Bush stories. Those who get their news from “The View”, “Oprah” and other pseudo news programs are force-fed this fiction daily. It is propaganda.
Few Americans have ever seen or used intelligence data. The President is not provided with raw data and asked to make his own conclusions. Intelligence professionals collect, analyze, confirm and summarize information into short presentations and documents.
Sources include government and private documents, news reports, speeches, trusted observers, military attaches, communications intercepts, imagery and more. There are always contradictions and the risk of disinformation. Clinton placed between CIA and FBI. Information may have all been there in Arabic. Intelligence is not remotely similar to the movies.
Did the Bush Administration have access to data which when analyzed could have uncovered the Hijack plot? Perhaps. Did they know Al Qaeda wanted to attack America? Probably. Did the DIA and CIA have observe increased chatter within Al Qaeda? Probably. Did an analyst provide the President, VP, SecState or NSA a paper saying that Arab terrorists were going to fly airliners into the Pentagon and World Trade Center? Absolutely not!
The United States is a very large target – 9,161,923 sq KM. What were their targeta? When would they strike? What weapons will they use?
12:34 pm
Looks like several of the Malkin links don’t work for the PM vs Loose Change debate. Here’s another link. Sorry for the inconvenience.
1:02 pm
Another troubling factor may play a role in the Truther movement is American Education. Since the late 1960s, Students are not to question the revisionist rot being peddled as history. They are taught what to think instead of how to think. Witness the Global Warming movement, the equating of Yassar Arafat with George Washington.
At Dartmouth in 1988, my son took a history of Jazz course taught by a tenured black professor. What was presented had nothing to do with music. It was rage against our oppressive white, male dominated culture.
The most frightening part of this story is that those surveyed have a vote.
2:01 pm
Cynthia McKinney is an ex-member of Congress. She was defeated in the Democratic primary. She hardly represents mainstream Democratic opinion.
8:38 pm
Rick-
You are sword fighting with a deranged Zorro. There is no fact, no truth, no common sense argument that will penetrate with these people. Think about it, 61%, a more definitive proof of the ignorance displayed by the left and their party of choice is incomprehesible. That they are not called on this ignorance is a shameful reflection on the bias of the MSM and a repudiation of the intelligence of the leaders of the Democratic Party. Having one of your trolls calling attention to the wisdom of Howard Dean only goes to prove my point.
9:41 pm
I saw this poll, too, and was intrigued by the results. But I can’t seem to get to the details or methodology of it, which makes me treat it with caution. Has anyone found a link to a full report on the poll, not just this “cover letter” version?
5:00 am
Meanwhile, three mainstream Republican candidates for president declare the Earth is 6,000 years old.
Oh well, to each his own idiotic beliefs I suppose. Just not sure I’d want any of them making policy regarding science.
6:30 am
Wrong, Richard.
They only claimed not to belive in evolution. Your crack about them believing the world is 6,000 years old is a lie.
They can believe in intelligent design and still think the world is 4.7 billion years old.
8:53 am
Richt Wing Nuthouse: WHAT DEMOCRATS BELIEVE…
I was curious about the basis of the following story and so started a poll asking if people thought anyone in the government had prior knowledge of 9-11 and did nothign to stop it. So far the results are stunning. Take a look for yourself, the poll is …
8:53 am
I did not read the poll in question carefully. I compare that to the people who still consider that Iraq had been in involved in 9/11, even though that has been repeatedly debunked. In any case, your VP still thinks so. Mock that 59% all you want. The right side of the pendulum is far more insane.
What I think it does point out is that GWB has been caught involving us in matters based on grossly inaccurate/deceptive information. The question after a while becomes simple after that…
How deep does this run?
9:00 am
[...] in Liberal Hypocrisy, Liberal self-loathing, Cultural Pessimism, Global Warming, Idiots, Politics. trackback Rasmussen Reports (courtesy RightWingNutHouse) reports that 61% of Democrats believe or ar atleast unsure that the Bush WHite House knew about the 9-11 attacks prior to 9/11/01. This despite the fact that the notion of a conspiracy has been rather thoroughly debunked, and that Bush was as surprised as the rest of us. [...]
9:38 am
And I’d bet you a case of Bud that while they can believe, they don’t.
But in any case, Inteligent Design isn’t intelligent at all. It’s foolishness as consistent with the modern world as snake handling and speaking in tounges.
I am a Christian, but not everything Christians believe makes sense.
Nominate any of these three men and the rest of the world will simply laugh at us.
9:41 am
It is more striking that 43% of Republicans polled think the President either knew about 9/11 before it happened or are unsure if he had prior knowledge. When nearly half of your supporters have open doubts about whether you would commit high crimes by failing to respond to a known threat to the country, there is a serious problem. Either the polling is poorly done (and is meaningless regarding Democrats or Republicans) or moonbatty leftist criticism is the least of your problems.
6:33 pm
BTW, the truther’s candidate of choice is likely Ron Paul, not Kucinich.
12:06 pm
Hwy! Wow! You got this one completely wrong. Nice job Rick. It’s unusual fr you to be so wildly off base, but I applaude your effort. It really paid off on his one.