It won’t matter to the true believers. They think dylan avery is a structural engineer. And most of them will refuse to watch because the’re too busy attacking the History Channel on 9/11troof forums. Did goebbels or goering read anything Albert Einstein wrote? Probably as much as 9/11cultists read anything that disagrees with their religious convictions about 9/11.

Agreed. But I think the target audience were the agnostics or perhaps those don’t know any better.

Compelling TV at any rate.

Excellent. Looney theories deserve a good debunking.

Speaking as one who used to obsessively partake of evolution / creationism debates, I doubt that people who are completely emotionally invested in the conspiracy will change their minds but you never know.

What always struck me as amusing (in a black sort of way) was the idea that Bush et al were capable of conducting this fakery. The awesome level of competence, planning and secrecy is beyond almost anyone but the Bush crew? Pah!

That and the way that people could even carry on with the nonsense after the Popular Mechanics article and the obvious fact that demolishing buldings is not something that can be done covertly.

I always thought the stuff about America doing this to herself was silly.
But I haven’t yet seen the rebuttal on the building 7 argument. I missed the History channel’s airing, but aren’t they still owned by the New York Times? Not exactly an unbiased source!
The building 7 questions remain. Instead of blaming our President, we should ask the Israeli Mossad what they knew and when they knew it. They WERE following Mohomhed Atta and another of the hijackers here in America prior to 9/11. Their agents were seen cheering and giving “thumbs up” as the towers were burning. Some media referres to the 5 agents as “Israeli Dancers.”

Actually, as the “biased” History Channel reported, ASCE has not completed its review of the evidence as to why #7 fell.

And Winston Churchill reportedly toasted the attack on Pearl Harbor. Did he have a hand in that disaster? Or was he happy that the US would be joining England in her war against Hitler?

As for the Mossad following Atta – first I’ve heard of it. Which means you probably got it from a truther site.

And you call the History Channel biased?

Trackbacked by The Thunder Run – Web Reconnaissance for 08/21/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

If the Bush administration is so sophisticated and intelligent that they put this conspiracy to murder thousands of people; said conspiracy involving thousands of people and hundreds of man-hours; and then put it together in their eight months in office; then why are they unable to shut the mouths of a couple of you-Tube geeks and miscreants that are “exposing the truth” to the administrations detriment. Doesn’t the fact these people exist prove the non-existance of the conspirators?

The piece was not even close to a mouth punch. Everything the ‘truthers’ were telling us were valid questions to ask. The actual debunking involved more suspension of disbelief than the conspiracy theorists.

Instead of tackling serious, almost non-debunkable 9/11 questions like the ISI money link, the war games that morning that simulated planes attacking buildings, the cover-up of the 9/11 report, the Able Danger program, the near-20 nations whose intellegence warned the U.S. of an attack, etc.

It’s easy to attempt to debunk physics when there is NO evidence to back it up; but try to debunk the actual paper trail next time.

There’s only one important question concerning the attacks, did the US gov’t allow/participate in 9/11?

The answer to that query would explain the illegal wire-taps, suspension of habeas corpus, banning of books like “America Deceived” from Amazon, detaining of dissenters in fences miles away from events, and multiple wars based on lies.

How can the gov’t be innocent in 9/11 when we have caught it lying so many times (WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, ETC.)?

In law, if you determine a person lies ONCE during his testimony, it can be assumed that he lied in the remainder of his testimony. How come we do not hold the gov’t to the same standard as it holds us to?

The gov’t lied to us about Iraq and more Americans have died there than in 9/11. If the gov’t lied about Iraq then why is everyone so reluctant to believe that the gov’t lied about 9/11?

Final link (before Google Books bends to pressure and drops the title):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

Jack D, I only have one thing to say to you…

BWAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I hate Bush.

I hate the Truthers.

Many, many lefties would agree with me on both of the statements above.

Can you personally explain anything that happened on 9/11, Mr. Rick Moron? Could you even hold a discussion about the physics of the towers’ collapse? You are an elementary schoolyard bully who made his living kissing the prick of the establishment. Suck it whore!

By the way, Rick, you might want to check out “What Part of ‘Bomb” Don’t You Understand?” from the August 10 edition of This American Life, which talks about the idiots who belong to the 7/7 “Truth” movement in England and how they harassed a survivor of the bombings who blogged about them. This American Life certainly leans left (as does the survivor), but the 7/7 Truthers are absolutely the villains of the piece.

What freaking whack-jobs these losers be….

I honestly think that some people just refuse to believe that a big event (Pearl Harbor, Kennedy’s assassination, 9/11 etc.) could be carried out without government complicity. It seems to threaten their universe to think that some nut with an Italian rifle can change history.
There isn’t an event in recent history that doesn’t have its share of conspiracy theorists. There’s even a group who believe that John Wilkes Booth was not really killed in 1865.

So Mr Moran
You suggest that this History Channel report “reamed” the Truthers, but then say that information on building 7 wasn’t included. It wasnt included? In the report that “REAMED” the truthers? Why wouldnt this end-all-discussion-report include information on Building 7?
How thorough could it be?

IMHO, the Truthers are nuts! But your automatic dismissal of all questions re. WTC/9/11 seems questionable in itself.
And since you’ve never heard that the Mossad trailed Atta, you conclude it’s bad information. How arrogant! Then you defend the integrity of the New York Times and their MSM buddies, the History Chanel. Puleasee!
And please show proof Churchill actually toasted 12/07.
With whom did he toast? When and where did this happen?
Or do you simply throw out stories as “reported” to suit your arguments in hopes no one will call you on it?

I am sorry I missed the History Channel show. It is long overdue. I hold a number of Environmental licenses with thew State of New York and I was at Ground Zero the day after The President was there. I was taking samples on thew roof of 120 Greenwich and found numerous parts of the plane on that roof. The FBI and Cia had already been there to pick up the large (the size of cars)pieces what I found were smaller but numerous. I watched the second plane hit the building on TV and was stunned when the buildings started to collapse. I can only say that these sick morons claiming the government did this are bringing unmercifully bad Kharma on themselves and I for one would not want to be them. God bless America

Read my lips. 911 was instigated, propagated, conspired, inspired, planned and executed by our renowned murdering leaders and the leaders from whom they take their queue. Period. No questions, no answers. The game is over. Goodnight.

[...] Right Wing Nut House reviewed the documentary so well that I really don’t have anything else to add except to say that it’s re-airing on Saturday at 8 PM Eastern and again at midnight. [...]

Great post, Rick. Thanks for the summary. The husband and I, avid History Channel viewers, saw this in last night’s programming and were too skeptical to watch, I am sorry to admit. We thought the History Channel had fallen off its pedestal. Nice to know when it re-runs tomorrow night I can watch without being disappointed.

“WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, ETC.”

Operation Northwoods – the plan dreamed up by a single man, rejected, and called for no civilian deaths.

You morons really need to do your research.

As a liberal, I agree with almost nothing on this entire website. But I doff my lefty hat and bow to Rick Moran, who has been all over these morons for a while. I’m not sure Bush hatred is at the heart of it (I tend to think it is generealized anti-government sentiment run amok, coupled with faaaar too much free time and a lack of girlfriends), but that’s a small point of disagreement.

I mean, how do you reason with a person who writes this:

“In law, if you determine a person lies ONCE during his testimony, it can be assumed that he lied in the remainder of his testimony.”

Really? Even his name?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. EVERYBODY has lied at some point in their lives, but that doesn’t mean EVERYTHING they say is a lie.

“How come we do not hold the gov’t to the same standard as it holds us to?”

Tell you what. Why don’t we hold you TRUTHERS to that standard? Meaning, if any ONE of your allegations is proven to be a falsehood, then the whole thing fails…

It’s kind of sad and depressing to see that the Discovery channel had to create a documentary proving that our government had nothing to do with 911.

I can’t imagine how someone could become as partisan, pathological, and obscenely offensive as a ‘truther.’

Good article Mr. Moran (as usual).

I didn’t get to see the special, but hopefully they’ll re-broadcast it. I’ve never respected the Truthers, but the only point they raised that I couldn’t flatly reject with certitude was the apparent lack of plane wreckage at the Pentagon. I look forward to seeing the show and finally putting the Truthers in the same circular filing cabinet with the Flat Earthers (although to be fair, the Flat Earthers are far more humorous).

I watched the documentary and it was not an impartial look at 9/11, but a deliberate attempt to resuscitate the government’s story, which continues to come apart at the seams. First, the format of the documentary was specious: it mentioned a “conspiracy theory” and then the “expert.” But what is an “expert?” An “expert” is just someone who supports the government story and doesn’t countenance any other alternative explanation. The “expert” rebuttal was often frightfully silly.

For instance Davin Coburn made the preposterous statement that in 2001 cell phone technology would work at 50,000 feet. His evidence? Nil.

David Coburn also suggested that Mineta’s testimony might have been a reference to United 93, even though Mineta’s own testimony makes it clear the flight in question is the one approaching the Pentagon.

But that wasn’t enough. In regards to what caused the circular hole in the C ring at the Pentagon, the official story is now that it was a vortex of hot swirling dust pushed forward by the plane. First it was the nose cone, but that was implausible since that it made of aluminum. So Popular Mechanics then told us it was the landing gear. That story worked for awhile but the gear was found before the C ring impact, so now they’ve concocted a new explanation.

An “expert” is simply someone who defends the official explanation, not someone who objectively looks at the the evidence and makes a conclusion. That is why all the defenders of government propaganda would have said that it nose cone punched a hole in the C-ring. But later would’ve told you it was the landing gear. Now it’s a swirling field of hot dust and debris. But if the official explanation keeps changing, why should we assume the government’s story at all?

If you all are so unwaivering in your opinions towards “Truthers”..I CHALLENGE you to listen to this mp3 and not come out of it without questions about the History Channel’s intentions and integrity. It is Alex Jones explaining how blatant and disgusting this propaganda hit-piece was. I DARE you to listen to this. It is only fair to have Alex’s position be heard.

http://prisonplanet.com/audio/210807show.mp3

A synopsis of a conversation I had a few years back.

Truther: “....it was obviously a hoax. The evidence shows that the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missle, not a plane. You can tell by just looking at the pictures of the crash-site, once you know what to look for. Furthermore….blah blah blah”
Me: “Well, you make a convincing case. There is only one problem with it”
Him: “Yeah, what?”
Me: “I saw the plane crash into the building with my own eyes. ”
Him: “Really? Oh.”

He didn’t “recant” but I got the feeling that actually meeting someone who

cont…

He didn’t “recant” but I got the feeling that, having met each other face-to-face, he couldn’t bring himself to just write me off as a liar as he probably would have done had the exchange taken place over the internet or in another, less personal, way.

By the way, it is Jones’ brief reaction the day after and simply highlights certain points of the program. Detailed rebuttal’s are on their way.

Quick note: Bill Doyle heads the http://www.coalitionof911families.org/..the largest 9/11 Families group. Over HALF of them are demanding a new investigation and believe the government is complicit in a cover-up. The argument “ohh bringing up 9/11 conspiracies is hurtful to the victims families” is a bogus argument and a disgrace to those that are demanding a new investigation.

So when the media labels “Truthers” as crazies and nuts, they’re putting many of the 9/11 family members that don’t believe the official story into the same category and should be ashamed of themselves. Only the scum of the earth would use and manipulate the names of the family members to propel their propaganda.

I messed up the link above, correction: http://www.coalitionof911families.org/

“The documentary took no prisoners as it destroyed almost all of the major conspiracy theories associated with 9/11…”

Dear Moron, In your dreams. This “documentary” did no such thing. In fact, it is equally being laughed at (and shredded) by the Truth movement as your sad attempt of redeeming this farcically silly production by the History Channel—9/11: fact of Fiction. Not once did the producers of this program talk about the smoking-gun molten steel under the buildings (1, 2, & 7) some 8 weeks after the buildings came down, even though Stephen E. Jones had wanted them to include this information in the piece. Is that what you call “truth by omission”? Also, there was such obvious bias by the producers in calling the people that supported the government story “experts” but those that didn’t, like the emminently-more-qualified-than-their-experts expert, Robert Bowman, just a “conspiracy theorist.” Also, we saw the same pull-the-heartstrings, emotional, rhetorical tactics that good propagandists use like “how dare they (the conspiracy theorists) hurt the families members of 9/11 victims BS” ad nauseum. Using these tactics was just designed to get people from speaking up about the obvious inside job of 9/11. But, it’s not working because more and more families of 9/11 victims are coming around to the TRUTH and supporting the Truth movement

Believe whatever you wish, but this did not harm the truth movement one iota. You can continue to believe in fairy tales if you want, but the rest of us are grown up enough to see the real nightmare the inhabits our daytime reality.

[...] Last but not least, unrelated but it amused me so I am gonna show it here, go read Right Wing Nut House and see how the Truthers Got reamed by the History Channel. In what will surely be seen as a defining moment for the 9/11 truther movement, the History Channel has delivered a blow for sanity and rationalism by airing a superior documentary entitled 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction. [...]

911 was instigated, propagated, conspired, inspired, planned and executed by our renowned murdering leaders and the leaders from whom they take their queue.

Unless they’re forming an actual line, I think you mean cue. Also, you are koo-koo-nutty.

Two quick comments.

“...and the disturbing poll numbers showing that 46% of the country believing the whole truth about 9/11 is being hidden by the government…”

If I recall correctly, it was 42%, but the major point is the wording of the question (something about the government revealing “the whole truth” about 9/11) could be interpreted in many ways. The producers seemed to pass off the number as the number who believe in a conspiracy—even a partial one. I suspect they got a lot of people who thought the government was merely withholding information for strategic reasons, or perhaps covering up its own botched response.

Second, this is not a fatal blow to the truthers. They have never let factual presentations influence their beliefs before. They’ll simply retreat from the weakest of their arguments and dig in again. But it was fun to watch.

If anything this sorry excuse of a “documentary” that the Hysterical channel broadcast last night will only help the 9/11 movement.

Imagine all the people who will actually take the time now to watch Loose Change… Thank you History Chanel! I’d say your little plan will backfire big time!

[...] In truth, I like few things better than a good debunking, and when the debunking is aimed at the morons in the 9/11 ‘Truth’ movement, so much the better: In what will surely be seen as a defining moment for the 9/11 truther movement, the History Channel has delivered a blow for sanity and rationalism by airing a superior documentary entitled 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction. [...]

Troofers need to get their stories straight. Either the fire wasn’t hot enough to weaken/melt steel, or there was a discovery of molten steel weeks later. The Loose Changers apply simplistic peanutbutter-sandwich-construction logic to very sophisticated mechanical engineering failure scenarios, then claim victory and post a video. In it’s third revision. Of a series of about a hundred, as more of their nonsense gets pickled.

Geez, we sure give a lot of attention to about 500 (very loud and persistent) nutbags on the intertubes.

And as for the crowds that show up for these Truther rallies – I go to the monkey house at the Brookfield Zoo, but that doesn’t mean I aspire to be a chimp. I’d go to a rally if one was in my hood, just to poke a stick through the bars.

History Channel = Propaganda Channel

The “Propaganda Channel” goons have been busy spamming every negative comment about them at Google Video the last 24 hours. They’re censoring…lmfao…WEAK. They couldn’t even debunk the home-made video of a 20yr. old.

They addressed none of the physics or mathmatics evidence, let alone the EYEWITNESSES IN THE BASEMENT !

They are now part of the problem America.

I don’t necessarily buy the Bush bashing charge as the motivation behind the truthers, there is a lot of money to be made selling people like Eric and redpill8 these types of “theories”.

Thanks for the heads-up, Rick. Will be sure and catch the replay. These truthers are truly deranged. Hope you’re correct in your assessment that this will put the issue to rest for all but the blind or willfully ignorant. Based on some of the comments here, I’m not so sure.

Matt, you ignorant sl… Oops. Sorry.

Matt, the physics associated with the collapse of the buildings is the extraordinarily difficult to grasp concept sometimes known as gravity.

The engineering associated with the collapse of the buildings includes statics, kinetics, thermodynamics, strength of materials, combustion, crack propogation, and on and on.

Concrete decomposes in hydrocarbon pool fires. You would know this if you had ever paid attention to the condition of a concrete road subjected to a car fire. Decomposed concrete is bad for the structural integrity of concrete buildings.

Steel loses significant amounts of its strength with increasing temperature. At 930 deg F, structural steel has down to 49% of its nominal yield strength. At 1100 deg F, it is down to 28% of its nominal yield strength. (Machinery’s Handbook, 25th)

Compare that to the maximum allowable design bending stress of steel, for example. That allowable stress is 66% of the nominal yield strength (AISC Manual of Steel Construction, 8th).

Estimates of the interior temperature generated by the fires in the WTC vary, but are nearly all above 1000 deg F. Which leads to steel strengths below 49% of yield. Which is a problem for a steel structure designed assuming stresses equal to as much as 66% of yield.

At the same time that the steel is becoming weaker, it is also expanding by approximately 0.00001 inches per inch per deg F. A nominal temperature rise of 1000 deg F results in an expansion of 0.01 inches per inch. Which is about 1/8th inch per foot. Or 1/2 foot expansion for a 50-foot-long beam or truss joist.

The beams and joists in buildings are generally fixed at both ends. They certainly are not designed with 6 inches of longitudinal expansion in mind.

So either the beams expand causing the columns to which they are attached to bow outwards and collapse, or the columns resist the expansion causing the heat weakened beams to buckle longitudinally and themselves collapse.

Onto the fire-rotted concrete.

Hmm….what structural elements remain to support the steel and concrete buildings? Too bad gravity’s all I’m coming up with for “physics.” I bet there’s something else in there that could explain it all.

Oh yeah, they totally “dedunked” the 9/11 truth movement. Yet I wonder why they ignored, especially since theyre so “trustworthy”

1. The Molten Metal From Thermate found and tested under ALL THREE WTC Tower
2. The Norad Neutralization of NORAD by Cheney because of 15 SIMULATNIOUS DRILLS that day.
3. The FUNDING for 9/11, which came form CIA controlled pakistani ISI
4. THE FOREKNOWLEDGE of the attack, which cannot be “explained away” (Jeb Bush Declared MARTIAL LAW in Florida just before the attack. Now WHY did he do that? Cause he KNEW IT WAS COMING.)

I had alot of typos, I typed it quickly. But my point is simple. The History Channel was a total hit piece with no actual important information. History Channel and Popular Mechanics are Shill organizations owned by HURST PUBLISHING- yellow journalism 100%.

But of course it doesnt matter what facts I bring up, because this site is pathetic and you maniac prefer to live in your TV reality where the loving Fed takes care of you and never lies, and Fox news is “fair and balanced” haha. Youll all wake up some day..

http://www.myspace.com/wethesheeple

[...] Right Wing Nuthouse has the definitive take on this definitive takedown. Here’s a sample: The implosion theory was debunked several times over. First, by the best forensic structural engineer in the country who, with the help of some excellent graphics and animation, showed exactly how the planes caused the towers to fall. An explosives expert (a young guy who was flabbergasted at the ignorance of the truthers regarding demolition) pointed out it would have taken weeks to rig the buildings for implosion and would have involved stripping drywall and ripping out walls. The nail in the coffin was supplied by one of the engineers who prepared the final report (working for the independent American Society of Civil Engineers) who showed how the collapse of the towers accounted for such things as the puffs of smoke seen in lower floors as the collapse was occurring as well as the speed of the collapse. [...]

@r4d20:
“Me: ‘I saw the plane crash into the building with my own eyes. ‘”

I’m sorry you had to be there to see that, but thank you for providing me with the first credible (to me) eye witness account of the Pentagon strike. Just based on your comments at this site, if you say you saw it, I believe you, and I can quit thinking about it.

More than anything, I resent right-wingers implications that all liberals are so-called “truthers.” I am a well-educated, white, middle-class, gay Democrat who does in fact, hate George Bush and his out-dated, offensive and hateful policies (blood for oil is a horrible reason to go war and attempting to deny civil rights to any minorty group is simply criminal). I do not however, subscribe to the conspiracy theories concerning 9/11, nor do any of the people with whom I associate (or they keep it pretty secret, if they do). Any rational person, regardless of his or her political inclinations, knows that the villains behind the events of 9/11 are Bin Laden and the members of al Qaeda, and no one else. The Bush administartion certainly dropped the ball in preventing the attacks, but they quite obviuously had nothing to with their orchestration and/or execution.

Jesus, Brian (Brasta1@aol.com), guess I hit a nerve there eh old buddy?

Too bad no one else will see your obscenely unhinged explosion. You are the epitome of a truther – rank, stupid, and emotionally unstable.

Yeah and deep down you know your a worthless spineless fraud! Just remember a coward dies a thousand deaths a solder just one! To quote leonitus in three hundred “I hope you live for ever!” See you in NYC on the 11th wait your beleifs are as shallow as your nerve!

The rest of us are grown up enough to see the real nightmare the inhabits our daytime reality.

They have medications for that, now.

“Jeb Bush declared Martial Law”?

Are you for real, Brad?

It was a good piece of work. My wife and I were quite impressed.

Sadly, for those who want to believe, it won’t help. As I told a friend of my in-laws (who persisted in telling me 9/11 “truths I know are not possible):

“When you
(a) get an engineering degree, or
(b) research Air Traffic Control to the point where you and I can have a serious discussion, or
(c) research US Air Defense to the point where you and I can have a serious discussion, or
(d) research demolitions to the point where you and I can have a serious discussion,

we can talk. Until then, find someone else to talk to about 9/11.

Keep your medications you Nazi!

Rick Moran:
Why didn’t you answer seejay’s valid question to you?
Where and when did Winston Churchill toast the attack at Pearl Harbor? With whom was he “toasting?”
You threw this up as fact, even though you used a MSM propaganda trick; using the word, “reported.”
After using MSM tricks like that,and then ignoring seejay’s rational question to you, can you really still wonder why some question YOUR credibility?
Please answer seejay’s question.

How long before Busboy says, “who are you going to believe – me or your own lying eyes?”

And how many here doubt that this is the “first” witness account that he has heard… and dismissed?

The comments could have stopped at #24. High Fives to Kman.

First of all, it’s “you’re a spineless fraud” not “your a spineless fraud.” And “leonitus” is capitalized and spelled “Leonidas.”

And this sentence makes no sense: “See you in NYC on the 11th wait your beleifs are as shallow as your nerve!”

Sheesh! If you’re going to threaten me, at least be coherent about it.

This blog is a JOKE!
Now it’s spelling and grammar corrections!
Another commenter asked Rick Moran why he won’t answer my question about his claim that Winston Churchill toasted the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
Rick Moran deleted the question.
This is like dealing with the AP!

“grognard Said:

I don’t necessarily buy the Bush bashing charge as the motivation behind the truthers, there is a lot of money to be made selling people like Eric and redpill8 these types of “theories”.”

Dear Grognard. I had to laugh when I saw this. You think that we in the 9/11 Truth movement are in it only for the money. Come on. I don’t make one penny from my website, nor am I interested in making any money from it. It fact, I quit my job so I can write and spend more time as a truth activist, and, believe it or not, nobody is paying me shit. I am just living off my savings.

Also, I think you have a serious misunderstanding about Americans. Not all of us are chasing the buck. Some of us, like most 9/11 Truth activists I know, actually care about people, American and Iraqi alike, and want the insanity that this administration has foisted on the world to stop.

There is a picture of a Iraqi young girl you may or not have seen, who was unfortunate to be on the receiving side of a U.S. bomb. If you can look at this picture and not see the insanity of this war and why it must be stopped you are truly hopeless. (http://www.lysistrataproject.org/withdrawing_our_consent.htm). This the only motivation I need, but it not the only reason I am a Truther. the evidence is solidly there. See, 911truth.org.

Now Spike’s question is back. I retract my statement about the deletion, but I’m still waiting for the info on Churchill toasting Japan’s attack on the USA.

Yeah and we all know James Meigs and Davin Coburn are engineers too….cough cough BULLS&^@ And for all the other people on the documentary, they are all on government payroll…..The History Channel is owed by General Electric which makes bombs for the Military Industrial Complex…..what on earth would they have to gain by exposing any cover-up??? Wake up sheeple!! We are doing this for YOUR future too…..don’t wait till it’s too late….and it’s not a LEFT vs. RIGHT thing….I am a STRONG conservative….actually voted for Bush twice!! So don’t pull that BS!

Some of you guys are NEO-CON filth…..why would you want to help the government cover up their lies???? WAKE UP!!

read this article!
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/210807_dirty_tricks.htm

Scientific/Technical background of the “Loose Change” crew:

Dylan Avery, 22 (writer) – Filmmaker, no college education

Corey Rowe, 22 (producer) – “Producer”, “some” college education

Jason Bermas, 26 (producer) – Graphics designer, “some” college education.

From Wikipedia:

Bermas believes that the Apollo moon landings were faked and that there have been missions to the moon using secret technology other than rocket propulsion

Tuned in late, but having just been out to Shankesville two weeks ago, it was interesting.

Obviously, these guys don’t agree, but they’re always good to a laugh.

Brian, grow the heck up. If Bush were as evil and callous as you make him out to be, you and all the other twoofers would be locked up detention camps, not sitting in your parent’s basement pretending to be brave rebels in your role-playing fantasy that America is some sort of fascist state.

No one’s ever explained how Bush could be evil and dishonest enough to mastermind 9-11 so he could invade Iraq for oil, but not evil and dishonest enough to definitively connect Saddam to the plot or stash WMD’s in-country for our troops to find.

JackD: “How can the gov’t be innocent in 9/11 when we have caught it lying so many times (WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, ETC.)?”

I’m glad you brought this up because it speaks to a larger issue.

If Bush and Co. was smart and devious enough to plan, execute and cover-up 9-11, how is it that they were so utterly stupid as to forget to plant WMDs in Iraq in order to justify the invasion?

9/11 was an inside job, it’s clear to anyone with an open mind. Skyscrapers don’t spontaneously explode; jet fuel doesn’t melt steel; those buildings were designed to be hit by planes; everything was reduced to dust, not “pancaked”; eyewitnesses and news reports speak of numerous secondary explosions, all the way to the basement. The truth is painful, yes, but we have to acknowledge it and deal with it constructively.

Any of you silly buggers going to address post #43? The rest of your garbage is just the internet version of the telephone game.

I know that 43 includes references and math and percents and stuff, but it is all verifiable by independent, third parties. Even you folks could confirm it with a minimum of research and calculation.

Unless the scientists and engineers have all been in on it for the last 100 years, falsifying all their data and chart publications so that the Mossad and Cheney with his evil, death-ray eyes and Halliburton with their money-grubbing, space alien contacts could invade Iraq and Afghanistan for (fill in your reason du jour).

So put up, shut up, or admit that you are really only interested in demonstrating Swift’s contention that one cannot reason a man out of something that he did not reason his way into.

Someone please explain how NIST can’t even bring the towers down with 16 of their own models…

“NIST created 16 separate physics programs to simulate the WTC 1 & 2 collapses and only got 1 to collapse partially. Torin adds, “When they did, [in the computer model] they removed 40% of the structural support.” The cross trusses that the towers received a significant amount of their strength from had to be removed to have a collapse in the computer simulation.”

http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=128&Itemid=2

Not too handy with the HTML, are you, David?

The History Channel is owed [sic] by General Electric which makes bombs for [sic] the Military Industrial Complex

Not sure where you got these crazy notions, David. GE owns barely 20% of the History Channel, and doesn’t make “bombs”, just jet engines for civilian and military aircraft.

Also, by your use of the preposition “for”, it appears that you misunderstand the meaning of the phrase “military industrial complex”.

Roger –
Torin Wolf cites absolutely zero sources on his claim regarding the NIST. So he has absolutely zero credibility, like all the other Troofer wackos.

As a staunch anti-bush, anti-war libertarian, I severely dislike Bush and doubt his leadership capabilities. That being said, the arguments and logic of the so called “truthers” is astonishing. They support an argument and once its debunked they attack the source and move on to another theory that has not yet been debunked.

Religious Neocons and “truthers” are two peas in a pod, using horrible logic to come to unreasonable conclusions.

Torin Wolf’s credentials:

Since he received his GED at age 14, saying he is a smart guy is putting it lightly.

Also, could someone please explain why you can’t see an airliner in the Pentagon video? In the first frame I see a small contrail that looks like that of one that a missle would leave. Some say the plane is traveling too fast to see it. Well if you can see a contrail in the first frame, you should also see building damage in the first frame (because it’s supposedly traveling too fast for the camera)..which there is none of.

All this could be cleared up if they would just release the other videos that supposedly show the plane hitting the Pentagon. Why won’t they?

Instead of arguing back and forth, let’s answer this simple question. Why can’t I see a plane in the video and why won’t they release a video showing one?

Frank you are an A*&HOLE!! Your one of those types that think your soooo smart. Correcting my grammer or spelling isn’t going to make you right on your false theories of 911. You are obviously in denial or an agent.

As far as my comments on GE, I know that they own only around 20% of the History Channel along with A&E and Disney. Also, what differance does it make wether they make bombs or aircraft for the military??? My point was that they are biased to uncover anything that could lead to a military cover-up.

I’m sure you’ll find a way to insult me again since your smarter than anyone….

and I find it funny that my post was taken down with the links to Davin Coburn getting his A%& kicked verbally on the FACTS of 911. Wouldn’t want your little neo-con traitor friends getting a dose of reality. I’m sure they will get deleted again.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/210807_dirty_tricks.htm

I do not publish anyone’s phone number at any time. Your posts will be deleted if you insist on trying to use my blog to harass people.

Ok let’s try this!

Davin Coburn gets owned on the radio after History Channel hit piece

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLx5GATh_z0

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb49MfDrwOo

follow up:
http://www.youtube.com/v/t0uVwS544Rg

I don’t think that I’m unusually smart, David, I just think that you are an incoherent moron.

Name calling is very mature.

#65

It’s been apparent the “Loose Change” scammers are idiots. Now we have some evidence they may be uneducated idiots as well.

Granted, the ubiquitous nature of the internet has made it much easier for the various anti-American whackjobs and cultists to “find” each other and reinforce their dysfunctional views on right, wrong, progress, justice, war, peace and love, but it’s still quite disturbing to think there is enough willful ignorance, fear, loathing and paranoia in our country (and the free world) to make these conspiracy scams into profitable ventures.

“Instead of arguing back and forth, let’s answer this simple question. Why can’t I see a plane in the video and why won’t they release a video showing one?”

Simple. The frame rate of the security camera was around one frame per second, and the plane was moving at over 700 feet per second. So the camera would have had to have taken a frame at the exact moment the plane was in front of it to get a useable shot, but it unfortunatly didn’t.

They aren’t releasing a video showing one because one doesn’t exist. The only reason we have so many of the second WTC is because so many cameras were already shooting the other tower.

Rip this Nazi Trator a new One , I look forward to seeing all the Real Americans, Real Patriots and Real Revolutionaries in NYC Ground Zero for the 6th anniversary were winning and we will over come!

Hans 69: Steel does not have to melt to become structurally useless. It only has to be heated to a temperature where its remaining strength falls below the loads applied to it.

The WTC towers had airplanes slam through them breaking or deforming some of the structural elements helping support the weight of the buildings above the impact sites.

The fuel and flammable materials of the buildings and airplanes burned across large sections of the buildings reaching temperatures estimated to be 1000 deg F at a minimum. 1000 deg F is well above the temperature necessary to reduce the strength of the remaining steel support members to levels below the UNDAMAGED design loading for the buildings, much less the damaged loading.

In addition, heated concrete dehydrates. In non-technical terms, water molecules in the form of steam are driven out of the matrix formed during the concrete curing reaction. The released steam expands inside the solid concrete causing the concrete to crack and spall. Thus, the concrete structural elements fail under extended fire exposure, too.

So, you have a loss of steel and concrete structural elements due to the initial impact, a partial loss of strength in the remaining steel elements due to heat “softening”—NOT MELTING, and a near total loss of strength in any high-temperature concrete elements due to cracking and spalling.

The impacts were not enough to fell the buildings, but the impact damage combined with the hour of uncombated heating across wide swaths of the buildings was. No bombs required; no space lasers; no alien death rays; no melted steel. Just eight evil men and a pair of airplanes.

There is only 1 explanation. The truthers are actually a Rovian conspiracy to undermine Democratic dissent in the US. By offering up such stupid and insane emotional outbursts, founded on obviously schizophrenic fantasies, Rove discredits the sane voices calling for the withdrawal of troops and the slaughter of millions of Iraqis. Clever, clever man that Rove.

Reply to 43 (and 87)

Okay first off you’re assuming that because the fire burned above 1000 deg F, the steel heated to 1000 deg F, and over a significant area. Most of the jet fuel burned off in the first minutes – the first couple seconds, really, and mostly outside the building. The fires that remained were pretty small and localized, and couldn’t have heated very much steel.

Let me see if I understand what you’re saying. The towers collapsed because the beams and joists expanded from the heat, buckling themselves or the columns, and eventually causing the 47 core columns to give way. All the way down a thousand feet. In ten seconds.

The core columns were designed to stay standing, and hold immense weight. Buckling joists and beams wouldn’t have much effect on the much bigger columns. Even if all the beams and floors and exterior columns fell away, the core would remain.

Even if all the columns were cut at one level, ask an engineer what would happen. The top would either topple off, or fall a couple floors and get lodged in the core columns. The core columns wouldn’t spontaneously fall apart. They were heated on, at most, a couple floors.

As for the “fire-rotted concrete” – the concrete wasn’t structural, in the sense of holding up the building. It could be pulverized (as it was) and the steel structure should still remain.

The fires that remained were pretty small and localized, and couldn’t have heated very much steel.

Hans, where did you get this information?

Rick, you are just another poor brainwashed fool. You and many others will watch this thing, and accept it as gospel, ignoring obvious problems with the ‘documentary’ such as the use of hoax websites and claiming they are ‘truth’ websites, and also ignoring evidence such as the dust analysis that shows at the time of the collapse there was something hot enough to melt (NOT WEAKEN) steel. Oh, and what happened to #7? Who cares, cause anyone who doesn’t accept the government’s official story must be crazy, right? I guess the website name is true, this place is a nuthouse.

#83 David – Wow, did you forget your #77 that quickly?

*89 Hans –
The fires that remained were pretty small and localized, and couldn’t have heated very much steel.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

The towers collapsed because the beams and joists expanded from the heat, buckling themselves or the columns, and eventually causing the 47 core columns to give way. All the way down a thousand feet. In ten seconds.

Like all “Truthers”, you’re selectively hearing and misrepresenting how the collapse occurred.

To make a long story short, the heat only weakened the support structure in the immediate area of the fire. It had no effect on the rest of the building below it until the support structure in the immediate area of the crash and fire began to fail and upper floors started to move down. Once the building started moving down (from gravity), the support structure could no longer stand in the way of the millions of tons of steel and concrete coming from above, moving at the speed* of gravity.

*Or to be more precise, the acceleration of gravity, 9.81 m/sec(2).

Regarding the concrete – it actually did serve a structural purpose – it stabilized the columns in the horizontal plane, much like the wooden beams of a brick building. And once the concrete of each successive floor shattered, it added to the weight crashing down on the rest of the building.

Clarification to my previous post – everything following the word “acceleration” should NOT be italicized.

“Simple. The frame rate of the security camera was around one frame per second, and the plane was moving at over 700 feet per second. So the camera would have had to have taken a frame at the exact moment the plane was in front of it to get a useable shot, but it unfortunatly didn’t.

They aren’t releasing a video showing one because one doesn’t exist. The only reason we have so many of the second WTC is because so many cameras were already shooting the other tower.”

Do honestly believe that the defense headquarters of the greatest superpower in the world only had one camera capture a plane crashing into it? Honestly? Moreover, they had no real time/normal frame rate cameras anywhere to record anything? Your local retailers have real time cameras.

I keep watching the video, and in the first frame the object looks nothing like a 757. If the plane was moving as fast as it did, why did it create such a small hole (not the ensuing collapse of the area)? And how did the “landing gear” penetrate two more of the rings around the Pentagon and burst out the other side when the plane didn’t even penetrate through the whole first ring?

Why are WE the conspiracy theorists when these basic mysteries don’t add up?

Ha haaaa! David actally used the word “sheeple” – the true test of the complete blinkered truther wingnut.

Excellent piece, Rick

You know what?The only people I personally know who believe that Dubya was behind 9/11 can only be described as Far Right.Real Far Right.

Just thought I’d let ya know that.

Hey, could you hype that article up for me a little? The language is way too unbiased the way it is. Hardly any overblown sycophantic panting at all.

Trollfeeder:

In regards to messages 43 and 70 all I have to say is good f’ing luck, mate.

The “evidence” this “truth” movement provides has to be as vague and open to interpretation as possible in order to give them the wiggle room required to escape being pinned down by one (or more) of their statements. They’ll back it all up with bluster and hope it’ll fly.

Numbers just aren’t conducive to this