I can’t really get too upset about the rank triumphalism being exhibited by our lefty friends over the official opening of the 110th Congress. After all, if the shoe were on the other foot, I would be writing something similar (albeit much better written and a lot funnier).
But having said that, in perusing lefty blogs this morning, there is a distinct whiff of grapeshot in the air – an undercurrent of self righteous smugness that goes beyond triumphalism, beyond gloating, even beyond the left’s usual exaggerated self image of saving the country from Republican tyranny.
What is on display is not the understandable human desire for revenge born out of more than a decade of slights and insults at the hands of their enemies but rather the cold, calculated hunger for a reckoning, a settling of accounts. It isn’t enough to put Republicans in their place. It isn’t enough to humiliate them, to poke fun at them, to kick them in the head while they’re lying on the ground. It is time to rack the bastards, to stretch their necks and watch them dangle and twist slowly, slowly in the wind.
I am referring, of course, to the braying and crowing emanating from the left in response to the news that Jamil Hussein has probably been found – and right where he was supposed to be:
Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, who had previously denied there was any such police employee as Capt. Jamil Hussein, said in an interview that Hussein is an officer assigned to the Khadra police station, as had been reported by The Associated Press.The captain, whose full name is Jamil Gholaiem Hussein, was one of the sources for an AP story in late November about the burning and shooting of six people during a sectarian attack at a Sunni mosque.
The U.S. military and the Iraqi Interior Ministry raised the doubts about Hussein in questioning the veracity of the AP’s initial reporting on the incident, and the Iraqi ministry suggested that many news organization were giving a distorted, exaggerated picture of the conflict in Iraq. Some Internet bloggers spread and amplified these doubts, accusing the AP of having made up Hussein’s identity in order to disseminate false news about the war.
My two posts on the AP are here and here. I was wrong about Michelle Malkin debunking the possible problem with transliterating Arab names into English for as Allah posited at the time and points out here, that appears to have been the reason for the inability of the Iraqi Information Ministry and CENTCOM to track Hussein down.
It does little good to point out that the real story is not whether Hussein exists but rather whether the information he was a confirming source for in 61 stories is true or false. That’s because the left doesn’t seem interested in whether or not the news from Iraq is real or imagined. “Fake but accurate” is fine with them. And no, even if every one of the Hussein sourced stories was a lie, that wouldn’t change the grim reality that Iraq is a bloody, violent mess. For the left to make that charge is ridiculous. There aren’t more than a handful of right wing blogs who have been stupid enough to make that claim. But for liberals to willfully self delude themselves into thinking that there isn’t a problem with the AP or any other news outlet who knowingly or unknowingly prints the propaganda of the enemy is incredible.
And the fact of the matter is that the story that set this hunt for Capt. Hussein in motion – that six Sunnis were burned alive and that 4 mosques were destroyed by rampaging Shias – is still open to question. The New York Times was unable to confirm the story and CENTCOM has stated that patrols in the area were unable to confirm the destruction of any mosques much less 4 of them.
But our unquestioning lefty friends – who apparently don’t care if the news is true or false just as long as its bad for Bush and America – have jumped on the Hussein story and, as only leftist twits can do, ignored the implications of the real story and instead directed their venom at bloggers who questioned Hussein’s existence:
And, to their great credit, AP —which continues to aggressively defend its imprisoned-without- charges Iraqi photojournalist Bilal Hussein (whom right-wing bloggers repeatedly accused of being a Terrorist)—fought back against these accusations. And now the right-wing blogosphere stands revealed as what they are—a pack of gossip-mongering hysterics who routinely attack any press reports that reflect poorly on their Leader or his policies, with rank innuendo, Internet gossip, base speculation, and wholesale error as their most frequent tools of the trade. The operate in packs, constantly repeating each other’s innuendo and expanding on it incrementally, and they then cite to each other endlessly in one self-feeding, self-affirming orgy of links, as though that constitutes proof.And they are wrong over and over and over—and not just in error, but embarrassingly so, because so frequently their claims are transparently, laughably absurd, and they spew the most righteous accusations without any sort of evidence at all. The New Republic has its Stephen Glass and The New York Times has its Jayson Blair. But those are one-off incidents. The right-wing blogosphere is driven by Jayson Blairs. They are exposed as frauds and gossip-mongerers on an almost weekly basis. The only thing that can compete with the consistency of their errors is the viciousness of their accusations and their pompous self-regard as “citizen journalists.”
Yes, I know it’s Greenwald and that his over the top, laughable exaggerations of the vast majority of righty blogs are usually fodder for snarky commentary. But notice the hint of hysteria in his attack. You really should read the whole post because the feeling of smug superiority drips from almost every word, not to mention the paranoia, the tiresome falsehoods, and the outright lies that only our Lambchop can feed to his ravenous, sycophantic readers who hang on every out of control word as if from Gaia herself.
And then there’s this:
Nothing yet from TIDOS Yankee, though I would point out that today is the anniversary of the National Day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer, declared by President James Buchanan in 1861. National “Days of Humiliation” were a regular feature of Anglo-American political life from 1648 until the early 20th century; although such days are still declared every now and again, the political language has shifted somewhat to the use of the word “humility” rather than “humiliation.” Nevertheless, for Bob Owens, Michelle Malkin, the guy from Flopping Aces—and every right-wing soldier in the Army of Davids who linked to these wankers over the past month—today must certainly a day of humiliation in the traditional as well as the more contemporary senses.
One wonders if admitting error is enough for these folks. Obviously not. Nothing less than self flagellation and a knee walk up the cathedral steps while wearing sackcloth and choking on ashes will do.
And for all the ink and snark and failed attempts at humor, there is still the elephant sitting in the settee; how good a job is the media doing reporting from Iraq?
To not ask the question shows an incuriousness bordering on somnolence. I will take a back seat to no one in expressing my admiration for those reporters who have braved the wilds of Baghdad and done a thankless job while risking life and limb to ply their craft (Jill Carroll comes to mind). And for those reporters who, by necessity, rely on local Iraqi stringers for news and background, I sympathize with their plight. Confirming information in that bloody nightmare of a country must be an extraordinarily difficult undertaking.
But where is it written that reporters are infallible – even if they have the best of intentions? Are we to simply accept what we read and hear about what’s going on in Iraq from some in the media when others (not associated with the government or Administration) are telling a different story or, as in the case of the AP, the information can’t be confirmed?
It would seem to me to be the height of irresponsibility as a citizen not to question the sensationalism, the myopic obsession with body counts, and the almost total lack of context that accompanies every story out of Iraq. It is beyond belief that this is the best our journalists can do even under the trying circumstances in which they are forced to work – especially when there are stories coming from people like Bill Ardolino, Bill Roggio, and other embeds that, while still giving a horrific picture of what’s going on, also seem to be able to give a context to their stories that is missing from almost all the reporting we see and hear from Iraq.
I don’t think any righty blogger is looking for miracles when it comes to getting news from Iraq. Despite what many lefties are saying, no one that I’ve read on the right thinks that if only the “real” story of what’s going on could be “revealed,” the American people would do a 180 degree turn and support the war. But is it too much to ask that what is disseminated to the American people is a more complete and accurate picture of what is going on when we have 140,000 of our sons and daughters in harms way?
Apparently for the left, that is too much to ask.
2:20 pm
“Nothing less than self flagellation and a knee walk up the cathedral steps while wearing sackcloth and choking on ashes will do.”
Actually, I would consider that a good start. there are too many peace demonstrators who were stomped and anti-war advocates who were called traitors for the above trivialities to be considered adequate.
3:04 pm
You really didn’t read the ‘Jamilgate’ blogs if you interpreted the attacks on the AP as anything other than just another attempt to intimidate the liberal MSM because they were reporting things that partisans didn’t want to hear. It wasn’t that there were inaccuracies, it was that inaccuracies could be used to discredit the AP’s overall coverage of the war. And yes, that is meant to insinuate that things would be different if people knew the “real” story.
“It would seem to me to be the height of irresponsibility as a citizen not to question the sensationalism…, and the almost total lack of context that accompanies every story…” is exactly the same complaint that many of us had on the runup to the war. I heard no complaints from the right blogosphere when sensational claims of WMD were made out of context. Yes, Saddam had an active nuclear program but it was BACK BEFORE 1991. Which was exactly what Baradi and the IAEA were saying.
Hence, I don’t think you can claim with a straight face that this was about accuracy in reporting. This was an attempt to influence the coverage to a particular point of view that blew up in the right’s face.
So yes, a little crow-eating might be in order.
3:07 pm
Just so I understand you correctly…
It’s okay if the story is false or exaggerated or a piece of enemy propaganda. What’s important is that righty bloggers eat crow.
Brilliant…you’re the next managing editor at AP.
3:11 pm
The major news from Iraq is and has been for a long time:
1. The Iraqi government cannot control the insurgents, militias, or criminal gangs.
2. American troop efforts also cannot control the insurgents, militias, or criminal gangs.
3. Many Iraqis and Americans are dying in these failed attempts and because there is no control.
What other news are we missing, exactly? Perhaps you think our “rebuilding efforts” are more important news that the three points above that is what is usually referred to as the missing news from Iraq)?
The right’s appeals to supporting the troops in harm’s way is as empty as a hollow log. We can’t fix Iraq. A simple question. If you were standing in the middle of a hailstorm, with hail the size of softballs, would you:
A. Decide that a bigger straw hat would be the answer?
B. Keep standing there because hail can be replaced by rainbows if you wish hard enough?
C. Get the hell out of the storm and go inside?
Better call me a lefty, because only C makes any sense at all.
3:16 pm
Granted all that you said is true –
You are saying that it doesn’t matter if what we read from AP or any other news outlet is true. Iraq is a bloody mess and that’s the only thing that we should know about it? Are you serious?
Being an unconscious tool of the enemy is one thing. But deliberately remaining ignorant that your emotions are being manipulated strains credulity.
3:24 pm
Haditha and Jamil Should Lead to Media Reform
The conduct of the U.S. media in the Haditha and the Jamil Hussein stories should be seen as central case studies of, either, how the major media continued to decline or of how it regenerated itself. Present indicators lean…
3:46 pm
Well, when the righty bloggers have no interest in the truth unless it’s “the truth” (similar to Karl’s “the math”), then yes, I do enjoy when they are humiliated by the facts interfering with their fantasies.
4:12 pm
Letter to Jamil Hussein:
Rick Moran has questions for Jamil Hussein, now that he’s come forward….
4:14 pm
As I posted in a previous thread but no one probably read, my son in law (a former Marine as am I) thought I was a fool and a coward for opposing the Iraq war from the very beginning. I will say that he was always respectful to my face and never argued with me to the point of losing his temper. To avoid family conflict I stopped trying to put forth my point of view to both Jeremy and my daughter and just held my tongue WRT to the war and how it was going.
As former Marines both Jeremy and I paid close attention to the war from the beginning. The difference between us was that after about a month or two, when the kinetic combat was over, Jeremy lost interest while I continued to remained fascinated with the ongoing conflict. Jeremy got his information from TV news, I got my information overwhelmingly from the Internet, reading everything from the BBC to individual soldier’s blogs.
I knew at the time that General Shinseki had called for several hundred thousand troops to invade and occupy Iraq. I also knew that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz had publicly disagreed with Shinseki over his estimate. I also know that General Abizaid has since confirmed that Shinseki was correct in his original estimate.
I’ve been reading a lot over at Intel-Dump a blog for (mostly retired) professional military officers and assorted military geeks and wonks. I’ve learned there that the Army was not even allowed to plan for the post kinetic combat phase of the invasion and occupation. The reason for this is simple, the Bush administration wished to keep the estimated costs of the invasion down as low as possible in order to more easily sell it to Congress and the American people. There was not and is not the slightest hint of this deception in the main stream media, even unto this very day. And yet I, a humble former enlisted man with nothing more than an Internet connection and a burning desire to understand, have found and digested the information.
If you wish to blame the main stream media for what is happening in Iraq, blame them for being partisan cheerleaders for the war and for not properly investigating and reporting the facts before the war started. The media, by and large are generalists, they have no specific knowledge of things military and hence they almost always get reporting on military matters at least somewhat incorrect and often wildly wrong. This is true for everything that the media reports on, it seems that most electronic media personages are selected for their looks and how well they “present” on camera.
It’s interesting that, even now, those who were correct in predicting failure before the invasion are almost entirely shut out of the media. It seems that the more incorrect one has been about Iraq, the more credibility one has with the media. Thomas Friedman, for instance, has been wrong so many times in predicting that things are going to “turn around in the next six months” that six months are now called a “Friedman Unit” on many lefty sites. Thomas Friedman has not been marginalized as a result of his continuously incorrect predictions, he is still just as visible as ever and being listened to just as respectfully as ever. Meanwhile, I have yet to see or hear of now retired General Shinseki, he of the correct estimate of forces needed, being asked his opinion on the war in any media source of which I am aware.
This war was lost even before it was begun, it was started due to political considerations and mismanaged due to further political considerations. The Congress and the American people would not have approved the war had the greatest cost of that war, the occupation after the kinetic combat was over, been included in the original estimate. I have yet to see these facts promulgated anywhere in the mainstream media even now going on four years into a meatgrinder of a war, a war that has now gone on longer than the time from Pearl Harbor to VJ day.
Can we blame the media for the FUBAR that is Iraq? Definitely, but not for the reasons that Rick is speaking of in his post. We can blame the media for not investigating and publishing the deceptions of the Bush administration in taking us into Iraq in the first place.
We can also blame the media for Iraq for shouting down and/or ignoring anyone with reservations about or criticisms of the plan of attack.
I was on an astronomy board before the war, they had specifically added a politics forum so that discussions about politics and the war plans would not infect the astronomy related forums. I remember being called all kinds of names, accused of being a traitor, a coward and a fool for pointing out that the invasion might not go as well as was being portrayed by the media. To tell you the truth, I was shocked at the level of vitriol that was directed at me by otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people who shared a love of astronomy with me. Eventually I was permanently removed from the board due to a minor infraction of the rules, an infraction which I had seen many war supporters commit time after time without even getting a warning.
Jeremy now listens to my opinions with considerably more respect than he did four years ago, but after three thousand American dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead it gives me no pleasure to be able to say “I told you so”.
Sun Tzu, the Art of War
4:20 pm
When AP would not treat questions about its reporting in a manner described in its own Code of Ethics, they then changed the story from one about Jamil Hussein to the AP itself. Sole sourcing stories is not something recommended in J-school, and yet over 60 stories have been sole sourced to Jamil Hussein by multiple AP reporters. By not bringing its sole source out and by not finding other sources to verify the sole source accounts, AP has not acted in a manner consistent with its Code of Ethics nor in a manner requiring reporters to actually adhere to journalistic ethics in reporting. That is not a point-source problem, it is a systemic one that has caused an AP customer to actually question it on its trustworthiness.
By not doing as it outlines for the Public, AP is no longer serving the Public.
4:25 pm
I don’t know. I guess we’ll have to wait for Michelle, Confederate Yankee, flopping aces, and Marc Danziger to actually admit error to find out.
4:36 pm
Jonathan, I appreciate that you want to make an honest effort to see what is happening, but you’re not there. You believe exactly what you believed before the invasion, but now you have more detail. Arnold Kling’s essay at TCSDaily today is much to the point on that. We can all accomplish the task of keeping the same opinion by choosing what information to keep. You may read milblogs – and good on you – but what you have arrived at is certainly not unanimous there. Admit it or not, like it or not, it is possible (though only those who know you could tell) that you have done no more than reinforce previous beliefs.
As to the premature schadenfreude now that Jamil Hussein has maybe been found, I think those commenters unintentionally give evidence for the OP. The important piece is whether the AP stories are true. If Hussein does not exist, that does not disprove the stories, but casts them into doubbt. If he does exist, it is some evidence that the stories have a basis in fact. In neither case is it proof. Proof is seldom available for actions distantly accessible, and we must weigh evidence as best we can.
As before, we await more information.
4:37 pm
It is quite important that righty bloggers eat crow if it turns out that they were uncritical tools of “Islamofascist” (i.e. Sadrist / MOI) propaganda, which seems quite likely to be the case.
I don’t really understand, how is it that Dems get blamed for their imaginary “coddling” of terrorists, Kerry is called traitor for his visit to Syria where he went to find the ways to help Lebanon get rid of Hezbollah, while the very real coddling of Islamo-extremists like Al-Hakim or Al-Maliki by the Right is OK with everybody.
I won’t say that this is a fact, but this seems to be a likely possibility: Malkin went to bed with Al-Sadr because she hates MSM more than him.
4:38 pm
Do you deny that our emotions were “manipulated” by the Bush administration and the media in the runup to the Iraq invasion?
4:56 pm
And how does that make me different from yourself?
You are missing the point that I was correct and the pro war faction was wrong, dead wrong.
What part of “General Abizaid confirmed General Shinseki’s original estimate to be correct” do you not understand?
When someone makes a correct prediction or a series of correct predictions, their opinion should be worth more than those whose opinions have proven consistently incorrect. This is not the case now, those who were correct from the beginning are still being ignored by the media and the politicians.
I haven’t seen anyone yet at Intel-Dump who would claim that the occupation so far has been well managed. The main arguments over there are about what to do next.
One of the best pieces I have read on Iraq is A Soldier’s Story by an Army Special Forces Major just returned from Iraq. And before you even start about the source of the story, to complain about the source is an ad hominem fallacy.
5:09 pm
As a parent and grandparent this video angered me a great deal. I have absolutely no tolerance for people who deliberately abuse children.
I emailed the link to my daughter (a mother of three) with the title “Winning hearts and minds” and when I asked a few days later if she had seen it I was absolutely flabbergasted and insulted when she told me “Oh yes, we laughed really hard”.
I was insulted because she assumed that I sent it to her because I thought it was funny.
7:13 pm
“You are saying that it doesn’t matter if what we read from AP or any other news outlet is true. Iraq is a bloody mess and that’s the only thing that we should know about it? Are you serious?”
Close. It is impossible to know with any degree of confidence whether any particular story coming out of Iraq is true or not. There is such a vile brew of violence, oppression and fanatical loyalty to one’s own over there at the moment that almost any story may be (and probably is) skewed in favour of one or other group. Every single group is media savvy and trying their hardest to make the narrative their own. And yes, of course, that includes the US. Wuldn’t you be dissapointed in your armed services if they weren’t playing the propeganda game? Since they obviously are, why would embedded journalists be reliable sources? They are as tainted, by association with one of the propeganda players.
The thing is simply a mater of focus and context. Malkin and the others were clearly convinced that they had hold of a Rathergate story. They were using it to paint AP specifically as the enemy. They don’t use falsehoods from, say, FOX news to paint FOX news as the enemy. This is because FOX is, basically, on their side. They perceive AP to be not on their side.
The problem here is that AP is trying, under almost impossibly dangerous circumstances, to get out the news as reported. Undoubtedly some of their reportage isn’t true. I imagine that all sorts of people want to sell them all sorts of stories for their own reasons. They then try to filter out the accurate (or newsworthy) ones and publish them. Sometimes they fail to get it right I am sure.
This, however, is not Malkin’s point. She was accusing them (indirectly, admittedly) of actively taking part in a deception.
The thing to take fromt he burning story isn’t that it is true, or that it is false. The thing to take is that it isn’t surprising. With a hundred drilled bodies being found every day or so, it is obvious that acts on a par with burnings are taking place. The notable thing about the burnings story wasn’t that some people were brutally murdered, it was the originality of the method.
I find it horrifying that we don’t even notice the drillings anymore because they are as mundane as another couple of carbombs.
7:14 pm
Ahhhhrrr..My Eyes, My Eyes…. Brain Bleach Time..
7:18 pm
“By not bringing its sole source out and by not finding other sources to verify the sole source accounts, AP has not acted in a manner consistent with its Code of Ethics nor in a manner requiring reporters to actually adhere to journalistic ethics in reporting.”
If you note from the story, now that he has had his name put out there and has been found, he has been arrested by the thugs in the Iraqi ministry of the Interior (yes, the one with the torture chambers).
Maybe this is why
1) They didn’t ID their source closely
and
2) They are lucky to be able to even single source some of their stories
7:20 pm
Faux Nooz has falsehoods?
Who would have guessed?
I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.
8:12 pm
Does the phrase “Hoist on their own petard” have any meaning for you?
I have been called some of the most vile names imaginable, had my honor and patriotism questioned and been threatened with bodily harm (according to the rules, I posted under my full name which is unique in the US and probably the world), simply because I had the sheer effrontery to question the advisability of invading Iraq. And this was on an astronomy board, I can just imagine if I had posted at Frei Republik or Little Green Footsmellers.
We on the left are tired of being on the recieving end of such treatment, we’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it any more.
As I learned in the Crotch, payback is a motherf**ker.
Yea though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil because I’m the meanest motherf**ker in the Valley. -Marine Corps Saying
Something else I learned in the Crotch, the best defense is an overwhelming offense.
Rush Limbaugh
Denver Post, 12/29/1995
9:08 pm
Got snark?
Here’s a a few examples of rhetoric from the right, the kind of rhetoric that liberals are finally starting to respond to:
John Derbyshire
National Review, 2/15/2001
And another gem:
Ann Coulter
New York Observer, 8/26/2002
And yet another:
Ann Coulter
2/26/2002
Here’s more:
Bill O’Reilly
6/20/2005
These quotes are from supposedly respectable and responsible journalists and commentators, not random, unknown internet bloggers.
And the right wants to call the left “over the top”!
11:04 pm
It’s not just about Jamil Hussein.
Flopping Aces: As many of us have said from the beginning, finding Jamil Hussein will not make this story go away. Actually it makes it better since we can now question him on how he has been able to report on stories all across Baghdad. On why no other witnesses can be found other then three who will not go on record, everyone else says it didn’t happen. On why there is no record of any bodies going to a morgue or hospital as the AP reported. On why no family of the victims can be found nor can the vicims be identified.
Lots of questions to be answered.
This doesn’t for one second absolve the AP from anything. In fact, it would provide incontrovertible evidence that AP sees no need in verifying and validating its sources. If Jamil Hussein were to escape – provided that he even exists – none of these would have pinned the AP down for good.
11:17 pm
I’ve been online since the days of 300 baud modems and local BBSes and I figured out a long time ago that the better my posts are and the harder I hit my mark the fewer replies I get.
By ignoring my posts you are only admitting your own defeat.
Silence is the tacit nod of acquiescence.
11:40 pm
-From the Iraq Study Group Report
As you can see from above, the violence in Iraq is greatly under reported not exaggerated. If AP got some stories wrong due to relying on a single source then they made a mistake. I wonder if you could do any better given the conditions that exist on the ground in Iraq?
-To err is human, to forgive divine
1:25 am
The thing to take fromt he burning story isn’t that it is true, or that it is false. The thing to take is that it isn’t surprising. With a hundred drilled bodies being found every day or so, it is obvious that acts on a par with burnings are taking place. The notable thing about the burnings story wasn’t that some people were brutally murdered, it was the originality of the method.
What a horribly nihilistic and cynical attitude to take. There is quite a bit of violence in Iraq, however to reduce such stories to din and believe whatever story you hear because ‘it doesn’t surprise you’ makes you a spineless dolt. To regurgitate cocktail party bile as ‘hundred drilled bodies being found every day or so’ doesn’t make you sound informed. It makes you sound like a bigot. You are no different than a person who assumes all black people have a predilection to commit crime because you read about many crimes committed by black people in the newspaper.
1:27 am
Jonathan,
You seem bored. You are posting a lot of items irrelevant to the topic at hand. I would recommend that you get your own blog and post them there at your leisure.
1:30 am
They are lucky to be able to even single source some of their stories
If they can’t corroborate, they shouldn’t print. It’s that simple.
5:25 am
“What a horribly nihilistic and cynical attitude to take. There is quite a bit of violence in Iraq, however to reduce such stories to din and believe whatever story you hear because ‘it doesn’t surprise you’ makes you a spineless dolt.”
I didn’t say whether I believed it. In fact, in such a cloudy situation, I think that belief is the wrong attitude to take.
“To regurgitate cocktail party bile as ‘hundred drilled bodies being found every day or so’ doesn’t make you sound informed. It makes you sound like a bigot.”
What? Are you honestly unaware that there are a hundred or so bodies found in Bagdhad every couple of days? Are you unaware that they routinely show signs of torture?
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=166434&Sn=WORL&IssueID=29291
I don’t claim this as absoulte accuracy either, but it is consistent with UN and BBC sources on total civilian casualties.
Were you honestly unaware of this going on?
“You are no different than a person who assumes all black people have a predilection to commit crime because you read about many crimes committed by black people in the newspaper.”
What on Earth are you talking about? The bodies in Bagdhad aren’t exactly new or controversial, they are factual and obvious. The standard marks of the sectarian killings are drilled knees and burns. Only someone who was paying very little attention could miss them, surely?
5:26 am
“If they can’t corroborate, they shouldn’t print. It’s that simple.”
Ahh, would that such a respectable attitude was taken by our governments in their intelligence reports to the public. Then we might not be in the godawful mess.
6:22 am
In other words, you have no replies for the points I’m making and you wish that I would go away so that you don’t have to have your cohort’s inability to adequately respond to me exposed for all to see.
Note that other than my first post on this thread I’ve been responding to statements made by others.
As I’ve already written on the bleg thread, I’m physically disabled. I’m insomniac due to the pain I’m in, I don’t like the side effects of medications and I use my conversations and research on the internet to help distract me. I can push the pain away by hyperfocusing, but it requires me to have something that interests me in order to do that. I have no interest in posting in an echo chamber and on most righty (and lefty) blogs someone of the opposite persuasion just gets attacked.
Anyhoo.. Thanks for your interest in my condition.
6:39 am
From wikipedia:
On the basis of these documents and other indicators, the governments of the United States and the United Kingdom asserted that Iraq had attempted to procure nuclear material for the purpose of creating what they called weapons of mass destruction, refered to as WMD, in defiance of United Nations sanctions.
This claim was one of the political justifications for the 2003 invasion of Iraq and led to considerable embarrassment when discredited.
Google is your friend.
Now, what was it you were saying about “If they can’t corroborate, they shouldn’t print. It’s that simple.”?
Do you hold AP to a higher standard than your own government?
6:51 am
Personal attacks do not enhance your argument and make you appear crass. I rather expect that our host, Mr Moran, would take a dim view of such also.
Perhaps you would like to respond to my previous post wherein I make the point that, according to the Iraq Study Group, violence in Iraq is being under reported by a factor of greater than ten.
7:00 am
Or perhaps someone whose ideology requires that they minimize the violence in Iraq for political purposes.
7:21 am
Oops, mea maxima culpa, upon review I see that I actually have three posts here that were not in response to someone else’s statements.
Sorry.
8:20 am
AP Staffer Killed in Iraq
I think this makes it clear that AP employees in Iraq face considerable risks.
1:17 pm
Is there ever gonna be responses to these types of folks without tu quoque?
Saying “well, the righties were snarky so we can be, too” isn’t a defense – it’s an illogical shield. Same goes the other way – their actions have to be judge irregardless of what the “other side” did. The tu quoque logical fallacy is saying “so what? They did the same thing (or worse)!” Not only is it childish, but you lose the argument by losing it.
But as I’ve stated before it seems logic and politics don’t jive well. If they did we’d mostly be some sort of libertarian.
1:18 pm
lose the argument by using it*
4:38 pm
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5:12 pm
I’m not using it as a defense, I’m using it as an offense.
You apparently want the left to play nice while the right continues to abuse us. Sorry, the left is not going to play that game any more. You wish for us to be like an abused spouse, who when the abuser promises never to do it again, believes and returns for yet more abuse.
This is one rape victim that doesn’t intend to “relax and enjoy it” any more. Instead I intend to kick the rapist right in the balls just as hard as I can and continue doing so for as long as I have strength. Oh, I’ll do so in a gentlemanly manner, but remember, a true gentleman is also a cast iron son of a bitch when offended.
The right has been engaging in war for quite some time now, the left remembers that every dog has his day.
6:13 pm
Invisible Pink Unicorn on a pogo stick, the hubris of this statement just boggles the mind:
10:27 am
“You apparently want the left to play nice while the right continues to abuse us. Sorry, the left is not going to play that game any more. You wish for us to be like an abused spouse, who when the abuser promises never to do it again, believes and returns for yet more abuse.”
Oh, so now you’re switching to strawmen, Jonathan?
I said nothing of the sort, NOR did I insinuate anything of the sort. The righties shouldn’t be able to abuse the left either, and saying “oh I’m using it as an offense” is childish, it’s still an illogical shield. You just prove my point yet again – I explained that it was tu quoque and you just said “well, they did it, too”. That is logically fallacious. I guess people aren’t for the moral (or logical) high ground anymore, it’s just who can snipe better.
And just for the sake of full disclosure, I dislike both left and right, but I dislike the left more (because leftist political ideas are more illogical).
2:00 pm
You are absolutely right to demand the cleanest and most intricately documented news reporting from the war zone.
Now that the rule is established, can we finally find all the MIA-POW’s from Vietnam? Really its just about doing your footwork and checking the truthiness of your sources.
Maybe CENTCOM has some Vietnam MIA stuff in their Pat Tillman/Jessica Lynch file, underneath the WMD’s.