DEMOCRATS SAY THE DARNDEST THINGS (PART 5,197)
Most people don’t put much stock in opinion polls - unless you’re a liberal and the majority supports your position. Then the poll takes on all the characteristics of holy writ. Moses and his commandments have less truthiness than a liberal clutching the results of an opinion poll that agrees with one of his positions. Then, waving the piece of paper aloft a la Chamberlain home from Munich, we lesser beings are informed that Vox populi, vox dei, (”The voice of the people is the voice of God”) and that unless the government alters their policies to conform with the latest skewed data from such unbiased sources as AP, USA Today, and the New York Times, liberals will get mad and throw a tantrum while accusing their political opponents of setting up a dictatorship.
It’s all well and good for a lefty to chortle and point to a poll showing 70% of the American people believing that George Bush is an incompetent fruitcake with the brains of a marmoset and the integrity of a tree sloth. And any old poll on the Iraq War showing the massive discontent in the country with this botched adventure is enough to send the left into paroxysms of joy, seeing vindication of their position as proof positive that while there may not be a God, there is schadenfreud to be celebrated.
Every once and a while, however, some dumb ass pollster will ask a really stupid question that reveals a teensy bit more about the nature of the left than they intend. And in doing so, a shocking truth is revealed that would give the rest of the country pause - if there was a ghost of a chance in hell that the information would be as widely disseminated as say, the number of people who think George Bush has the brains of a marmoset and the integrity of a tree sloth:
A sizable minority is optimistic that the president’s plan will work. About one in four think it is either very (10 percent) or somewhat (29 percent) likely the plan will succeed, 27 percent think it is not very likely to succeed and another 25 percent say not at all likely.
Even though a majority opposes Bush’s new plan and many are doubtful it can succeed, that does not mean they want it to fail: 63 percent of Americans say they want the plan to succeed, including 79 percent of Republicans, 63 percent of independents and 51 percent of Democrats.
On the larger political front, more people think “most Democrats” want the Bush plan to fail and for him to have to withdraw troops in defeat (48 percent), than think Democrats want the plan to succeed and lead to a stable Iraq (32 percent).
There are three separate issues here. First, while most Americans are doubtful that the surge will succeed, a sizable minority - certainly enough to prevent Congress from scuttling the plan - believe it will work. No wonder Pelosi is going to give Bush his head and allow funding for the plan to go forward.
But the real shocker here is the number of Democrats who want the plan to succeed. A bare majority of Democrats (51%) want the United States military to prevail on the field of battle. Now if I were to posit a logical fallacy, I could say that since 49% of Democrats want the military to fail, then it follows that they wish large numbers of American soldiers to die to make their wish come true. But I would never accuse Democrats of any such thing, would I?
What I am accusing them of is that they would rather see the President, and by extension, the United States of America suffer a humiliating defeat than see their cherished ideas of defeatism dribble away like so much frozen custard on a hot summer’s day. They would rather the US lose than be proved wrong.
An exaggeration? The last number quoted above is even more telling. Here’s the breakdown of people who think the Democrats want the surge plan to fail:
Democrats 42% 38 7 12
Republicans 21% 67 7 5
Independents 30% 42 11
The first number refers to respondents who think the Democrats want the plan to succeed. The second number are those who believe Democrats want the plan to fail. The third number reflects those who believe some want one thing, some another. The last number represents those Americans in perpetual obliviousness; they don’t know.
What I find extraordinary is that 38% of Democrats believe that their own party is made up of…what? Traitors? Too harsh. How about a bunch of brainless twits whose myopia is so profound that they would wish for disaster to befall American arms. The fact that this could only mean that a lot of American soldiers would be killed for nothing makes their disconnect from reality complete.
You can be sure that this aspect of the poll will never, ever see the light of day on any other network save Fox News. Nor will it be reported in any major media outlet. And to the extent that lefty blogs pay any attention the poll at all, it will be to highlight the American people’s opposition to the surge.
But there it is in black and white. And no amount of spin or whining about the source or savaging the pollster for even asking the question will change what those numbers represent: That a sizable portion of the Democratic party has a vested emotional interest in the defeat of American arms.
One can argue (and I’m sure the left will) that Iraq is already “lost” and that therefore the poll is meaningless. But the question was specifically about the President’s plan and whether or not the respondent hoped that it would succeed. Even allowing for respondent stupidity (as Ace does here) that still leaves a sizable portion of the Democrats devoutly wishing for failure of the United States military on the field of battle.
Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels. But cowardice is where the scoundrel goes first.
UPDATE
Dean Barnett calls it “The Most Depressing Poll Ever.” I have to agree. Despite my rather cavalier tone above, I find it incomprehensible that people would allow their opposition to the President or even the war itself to overcome their innate sense of patriotism that the overwhelming majority of Americans feel when it comes to our military.
Michelle Malkin contrasts the poll numbers with some steps foward in Iraq.
Got that? 59% of Democrats say they would vote against funding the current level of US troops in Iraq in order to try and force a troop withdrawal and 8% “don’t know†(uh huh).
Bbbbut they support the troops.
I’ve been saying this for so long my fingers cramp from all the typing. Liberals want nothing more then the United Stated to run from Iraq with our tails between our legs, knowing that would make the sacrificies of our troops to have been in vain, all so they could say “See! Bush was wrong!”.
How friggin disgusting.
[...] Original post by Rick Moran and software by Elliott Back [...]
Pingback by DEMOCRATS SAY THE DARNDEST THINGS (PART 5,197) at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source. — 1/19/2007 @ 8:40 am
Not sure if everyone has seen these videos of the US military in Iraq or not, but they are pretty amazing: Hopefully our ’surge’ will not include too many of these types…
http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2006/12/winning-hearts-and-minds-part-three.html
Comment by MinorRipper — 1/19/2007 @ 8:49 am
Setting aside the dismal performance of the last Congress led by Republicans, no one can vote for a Democrat in a time of war and still claim to be a responsible citizen.
Comment by Sirius Familiaris — 1/19/2007 @ 8:51 am
Minor:
This is at least the third time you have left the same link on this site.
I will allow the link to stand but please, in the future, try something original. Looking at the same leftist propaganda gets boring after a while.
Comment by Rick Moran — 1/19/2007 @ 8:51 am
Rick, I didn’t see who conducted this poll. What’s the source?
Comment by gregdn — 1/19/2007 @ 9:16 am
Opinion Dynamics and Fox News. Here’s a link to the raw numbers (PDF):
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/011807_foxnewspoll.pdf
Comment by Rick Moran — 1/19/2007 @ 9:18 am
Lets put this in perspective slightly more than 3000 americans killed in Iraq since the Iraq wars enception, Approximately 40000 people killed in auto accidents each year! I by no means wish to imply being in the miltary isn’t very dangerous during a war; but I don’t think the auto accidents are volotering to die either. I pray we don’t Cut & Run in Iraq.
Comment by Linbar California — 1/19/2007 @ 10:05 am
Trackbacked at The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 01/19/2007
Comment by David M — 1/19/2007 @ 10:58 am
Brian was unable to leave this comment due to some of the site issues I’ve had recently.
I’ve been trying to post a comment on the poll results you mentioned recently,
but get an error page. Not sure why.
Here’s the response I was trying to post:
“Before everyone gets all hepped up claiming this proves libs and Dems want
America to lose, anyone stop to consider the respondents may have simply meant
they want the plan to fail TO BE IMPLEMENTED, not fail in action?
’cause if it’s option #1, bear in mind the poll results show 10% of Republicans
also feel this way, with 11% not sure, for a total of 21% of Republicans not
sure they want to US to win. Independents are 19 and 17, for 36%. Are these
people really claiming 21% of Republicans and 36% of independents want the US
to lose, or just aren’t sure they want the US to win?
Methinks people are seeing this poll through the ugly tilted lenses of
confirmation bias.”
Comment by Rick Moran — 1/19/2007 @ 12:00 pm
“Now if I were to posit a logical fallacy, I could say that since 49% of Democrats want the military to fail, then it follows that they wish large numbers of American soldiers to die to make their wish come true. But I would never accuse Democrats of any such thing, would I?”
Aaarrgghhh! This is exactly the cheap shot mentality that keeps me from being a conservative. Rick, you are far too intelligent to stoop to using these types of snotty, condescending rhetorical devices. You are quick to point out the smugness and meanspiritedness of the far Left, so why emulate them? Your points are made in a very strong manner without this type of childish language.
Child teasing another: “Your are a fat stupid idiot!”
Same child after getting caught teasing: “I was just kidding!”
This is exactly parallel to your literary device quoted above. You’re better than that.
Comment by ed — 1/19/2007 @ 1:22 pm
The Support The Troops… If They Lose
Nearly half of the democrats polled either want the US to lose in Iraq or don’t know whether they want the US to succeed.
And yet they claim they support the troops.
Trackback by Sensible Mom — 1/19/2007 @ 3:26 pm
I will allow the link to stand but please, in the future, try something original. Looking at the same leftist propaganda gets boring after a while.
Comment by Moran
And I get bored reading all the right wing propoganda. MinorRipper is a good blogger. You may want to listen to what he has to say.
Comment by Tom — 1/19/2007 @ 4:13 pm
I don’t think Bush has any chance of pulling off what he is trying to do, so the sooner he admits defeat, the fewer American troops will die pursuing the unattainable and the faster we can get our military focused and prepared to focus on doing things that protect Americans rather than Iraqis.
so does this mean I’m rooting for him to fail?
Comment by steve sturm — 1/19/2007 @ 4:16 pm
steve sturm Said:
4:16 pm
I don’t think Bush has any chance of pulling off what he is trying to do, so the sooner he admits defeat, the fewer American troops will die pursuing the unattainable and the faster we can get our military focused and prepared to focus on doing things that protect Americans rather than Iraqis.
so does this mean I’m rooting for him to fail?
Steve is wise. Consider what he has to say, and know that he sums it up for about 70% of Americans.
Comment by Tom — 1/19/2007 @ 4:34 pm
Its okay for Bush to leave troops in that meatgrinder? But its wrong for Democrats to exit a failed policy? It seems to me the Dems want to save American lives, and Bush wants to keep slaughtering them in a unwinnable mess.Now America, who supports the troops? Keep digging a hole neo-cons, your too stupid to face reality.
Comment by Joe Helgerson — 1/19/2007 @ 9:05 pm
I want to make cleaer that while the Democrats and I both want the troops out of Iraq now, we do so for very different reasons.
I want them out because I think we accomplished what we set out to do (get rid of Hussein and whatever WMDs there were), because I don’t want American military lives lost because the Iraqis don’t like one another, because I don’t think Bush has any chance of ever changing that dynamic, and because I view the proper role of our military as protecting America and not babysitting crazies halfway around the world.
The Democrats, on the other hand, could care less about our military. They don’t like those who serve, they don’t mourn the loss of those who serve. Given their druthers, they’d gut the military budget to free up money for their social programs. They object to what Bush is doing because (1) it is Bush and (2) it is Bush.
Comment by steve sturm — 1/19/2007 @ 9:42 pm
I want them out because I think we accomplished what we set out to do (get rid of Hussein and whatever WMDs there were), because I don’t want American military lives lost because the Iraqis don’t like one another, because I don’t think Bush has any chance of ever changing that dynamic, and because I view the proper role of our military as protecting America and not babysitting crazies halfway around the world.
Betcha there are 10s of millions of Democrats who agree with this paragraph. I do, mostly, though I didn’t agree that the original goal was a correct one. (My judgement at the time was that Saddam had no WMDs except maybe some leftover chemical weapons, and perhaps a biological weapons research program, that he didn’t get along with militant jihadists and was unlikely to share weapons with them due to probable blowback, and that a forced regime removal would result in a Shia/Sunni civil war, with Kurds in the north causing trouble with Turkey. At least the later hasn’t happened.)
The Democrats, on the other hand, could care less about our military. They don’t like those who serve, they don’t mourn the loss of those who serve.
This sort of statement is one reason why I distrust the political judgement of people on the right. The percentage of military haters and generally of pacifists is certainly higher among Democrats than among Republicans - Republicans reject both military hating and pacifism. As a blanket statement, it’s just incorrect IMO. (Do you have numerical evidence otherwise?)
Comment by Bill Arnold — 1/20/2007 @ 12:18 am
A bare majority of Democrats (51%) want the United States military to prevail on the field of battle. Now if I were to posit a logical fallacy, I could say that since 49% of Democrats want the military to fail,
The raw numbers on this one are 51/34/15, not 51/49. And not-success does not mean failure - our president, you’ll recall, said in an interview “We’re not winning, we’re not losing,…” Regardless, as a Democrat I’m disturbed by these numbers.
Comment by Bill Arnold — 1/20/2007 @ 12:37 am
The poll doesn’t say such thing. It says that 34, not 49, of Democrats don’t want the Bush plan to succeed. And, BTW, this is the case of a poll not to be taken very seriously, with all the dozens of questions. And what does it mean, “success”? A Shia theocracy, “80 percent solution”, Sunni genocide and a big “Mission Accomplishment” banner? Or a war with Iran? Given Bush’s record this is kind of success that is not unreasonable to expect — and a kind of success not to feel happy about.
Comment by Nikolay — 1/20/2007 @ 10:20 am
This country is in serious danger when you get poll results like these. It is sickening and tragic. The Left has taken over this country enough to poison the entire political process and conversation. I hope there is an effective antidote somewhere…but I am not holding my breath. Thank God for the blogosphere.
Comment by MIchael Babbitt — 1/20/2007 @ 11:12 pm
Rick, why wouldn’t you use the term traitors? If the shoe fits….
And Michael, there is an effective antidote…. and we’ll get around to it sooner or later. The Revolutionary War was not backed by a majority.
Comment by SDN — 1/21/2007 @ 12:42 am
“Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels. But cowardice is where the scoundrel goes first.”
Easy on the Scoundrel there…
http://lastrefugeofascoundrel.blogspot.com
Comment by Larry — 1/21/2007 @ 2:16 am