WISHING THE GAY MARRIAGE ISSUE WOULD JUST GO AWAY
This whole Rick Warren blow-up that has occupied both the left and right recently reminds me of all that I hate about both conservatives and liberals. They aren’t discussing the very smart political move (and wonderful, healing gesture) by Obama to invite a man who equates gay love with incest to give the invocation at this historic inaugural. The issue has been folded into the Prop 8 brouhaha and has been deliberately used to reignite a debate that was settled the only way such thorny issues can be settled; at the ballot box by ordinary Americans making their feelings known in a clear, unambiguous way.
To my conservative freinds, I would ask what possible relevance this minor, irritating issue has when the country’s economy is going to hell in a handbasket? I don’t ask the same question of the left because to them, “the personal is political” and forcing the concept of gay marriage down the American people’s throat seems perfectly reasonable - especially since they believe the rest of us are a bunch of bible thumping, goober chewing yahoos who need to be instructed (by them) as to what is correct thinking and what isn’t - regardless of one’s personal beliefs.
Calling on government to either ban or bless how one chooses to express their love for another human being is the height of idiocy. If individual religious sects (or, through the ballot box, a state) wishes to recognize unions of same sex couples as “marriage” or something similar who are we to say otherwise? It’s not anyone’s business and the idea that it should matter is rapidly becoming ridiculous.
The challenges we face in the next few years are as serious as any faced by a generation of Americans since World War II. We are at war with a fanatical ideology, supported by nation states - one of whom may very well be close to having the ultimate weapon - using terror tactics to achieve their ends while their actions are supported or tolerated by tens of millions of their co-religionists.
Our economic situation is dire - and being made moreso by mortgaging our future so that politicians can be seen to be “doing something about the problem.” Eight trillion dollars later, the economy is arguably no better off and we have postponed the date of recovery. In the meantime, a budget deficit approaching a trillion dollars is staring the liberals and the face and they are not giving an inch. They are going to initate all their pet spending schemes come hell or high water. The trouble is that both those things have come already. We are in hell. High water would be an improvement.
The most inexperienced chief executive in American history will be learning on the job while the rest of the world - especially our enemies - will seek to test the limits of his patience and skill. There are so many landmines strewn in his path that the chances of him stepping on one of them is pretty darn good. Either Russia or Iran is almost certain to challenge Obama somewhere, somehow. That seems to be a growing consensus among our foreign policy wise heads who give the new president less than a year before he faces a genuine, teeth rattling crisis.
And despite all this, the gay community is throwing a tantrum about Rick Warren while seeking to nullify the will of the people in California. Inconvenient? No doubt. Democracy is a messy, ugly process. But working actively to tell the millions of Californians who voted for Prop 8 that their vote, their feelings, and their beliefs matter as much as a pile of crap is not the way things are done in democracies. They are acting as if there will never be another election and that people’s minds cannot be changed. If they keep up with these bully boy, screaming, foot stomping, two year old-like tactics, people will continue voting to deny what they see as their “right” to marry until they grow up and work like responsible adults to bring people around to their point of view.
To the Mormons and rabid gay-haters out there on the right who think they hold a patent on truth, I’ve got news for you; very few people care what you think. In fact, the more you work against gay marriage, the faster you hasten the day when it will become a reality. The only thing keeping a backlash from forming against you now is the backlash that has already formed against the kooks on the left who beat you to it through their childish idiocy of attacking people for their religious beliefs while screaming that everyone should boycott everybody if they even sneezed in favor of Prop 8. I never thought I’d see the day when people would feel sorry for Mormons and others who are in the line of fire of these ignorant boobs in the gay community.
In the end, this is a non-issue being pushed on both sides by ignorant statists who wish to use government to get what they want. Meanwhile, the world melts down around them and the rest of us wonder just what the hell has got this minority of loudmouths so upset. The only thing I know is that the louder they get, the more I wish they’d just shut up and the whole issue just go away.
UPDATE:
Judging by the emails I’ve gotten, my usual detractors are accusing me of dismissing the issue with a “pox on both your houses,” typical Moran BS. In this case, I see no difference between the Mormons, the gay haters, and those in the gay community who are blowing a gasket over the Rick Warren imbroglio and Prop 8 boycotts.. They are all statist boobs as far as I’m concerned, seeking to hijack government in order to impose their views on the rest of us.
Gay marriage is not a “conservative” issue. Conservatives don’t care whether someone loves another who is the same sex or not. Love is love and trying to redefine it is like trying to get the sun to rise in the west and set in the east. If you believe the love you hold for your own spouse is legitimate, you cannot deny the same kind of love that exists between two men or two women is equally correct - bible or not.
And there is no “human right” to get married. That may be the biggest bunch of hooey ever advanced by the left. If gay marriage is going to happen in the US, it will happen with acceptance by the majority and not as part of legal trickery that seeks to redefine what a “human right” is suppose to be.
Agreed.
It seems like we have so many cliques of 1-dimensional voters. There’s the gay clique, where gay rights are everything. There’s the NRA clique, where gun rights are everything. There’s the NAACP clique, where minority rights are everything. There’s the unions, where labor rights are everything. I’m not sure what my clique is… maybe the right-wing conservative IT professional agnostic gun-toting clique?
I long for the days when our country’s future was so promising that we could focus on our pet issue. Like you, I wish both sides would just shut the hell up.
Comment by lionheart — 12/23/2008 @ 3:43 pm
Forgive me, Rick, but I’m not exactly seeing a bunch of Mormons frothing at the mouth about Rick Warren giving the invocation at Obama’s coronation ceremony.
I’ve read your stuff for years and value your commentary on most issues. But when you start lumping me (a proud life long Mormon) with the “statist boob” crowd, that my friend is where we part company.
Prop 8 is an attempt to use the power of the state to specifically deny gays the right to marry. The fact that you won is irrelevant to my main point which is most people could care less about the issue in these times of crisis.
ed.
Comment by Cordeiro — 12/23/2008 @ 4:00 pm
Rick,
The problem is the use, by the state, of ‘marriage’. If the state had chosen to use the term ‘civil union’ for all legal joining of people, this would not be a topic of any kind of discussion.
Let the ‘church’ have marriages and let the state have civil unions for the legal definition and contract.
I wholeheartedly agree. If christian sects want to marry gays in their church, none of my business. If states want to give gay couples all the rights attributed to a legal bond of matrimony and call it “civil union” ditto.
Allowing this will not be the end of western civilization. Anyone who thinks it will destroy “marriage” is an hysterical fool.
ed.
Comment by Belad — 12/23/2008 @ 4:50 pm
I’m a strong advocate of extending marriage rights to same-sex couples. But I have to agree with you that we’re facing much more significant problems than that one at the moment. We SSM advocates need to keep on making our case, but at the same time, we need to confront the other issues facing society. Here in California, gay couples can still register as domestic partners and while I don’t think it’s the same thing, I do think that DP’s are useful to demonstrate that gay people can live together with legal recognition to their relationship without causing anyone any harm.
Meanwhile, we’re up over our eyebrows in debt (at the Federal and state levels), our exhausted military is about to be eviscerated by the incoming Administration, taxes appear likely to increase in the near future, three octogenarians are entering their twilight years on the Supreme Court, and as Rick points out, we’re likely to be on the receiving end of a geopolitical power play in the very near future. It’s time to move on to other areas for a while; we will have the ability to revisit same-sex marriage through the democratic process soon enough.
Comment by Transplanted Lawyer — 12/23/2008 @ 5:31 pm
Excellent post!
I find it ironic that when important topics such as the role of government in the economy is covered, few people respond. Once true and tested cultural icons such as gay marriage, Palin 2012 or the ever present treehugging, peacenick hippie is mentioned, the blogs light up. Seems the ’say it louder fraction’ loves to hear their own voice. Right, Left in this instance doesn’t matter. On the other hand I found this post much more important for conservatives to follow than the ever-present beating to death of ‘cultural wedge issues’.
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/jan/12/00006/
Comment by funny man — 12/23/2008 @ 5:54 pm
Rick,
Speaking of Rick Warren you decribed him as “a man who equates gay love with incest”. Normally you are much more informed and balanced. Your obvious passion about this issue not being an issue has clouded your judgement on this. Rick did not equate gay love with incest.
If you look into the original quote in context, he was stating a number of new ways of redefining marraige that he would oppose, not equating them. He was making the point that he is opposed to redifining marraige because he supports the long standing transcultural definition of marraige, regardless of how someone might try to redefine it.
If I say I don’t like brussel sprouts and I don’t like liver (I don’t like either) I am not equating them. I am simply listing multiple foods I dislike. He was simply stating multiple definitions of marraige he would oppose because he believes in the traditional definition of marraige.
I always enjoy reading your opinions, keep them coming. This one will no doubt have people screaming from both sides.
Comment by VanisleScotty — 12/23/2008 @ 7:11 pm
Good point. Obama made a good political move. Most people are blind to this.
Comment by chuck — 12/23/2008 @ 9:08 pm
The fact that we are in a deep financial crisis is not and should not be linked with what is a moral or Biblical issue to many people.
While you may have better resources for counting noses regarding gay marriage pro and con today, it has been on the average a 70%/30% con issue in the many states that have addressed the issue in the past few years. For them, the issue is settled in law, and they can turn their attention to more important things. That is decidedly not the same thing as no longer caring about the issue, as you imply.
Comment by mannning — 12/23/2008 @ 9:46 pm
Homosexual marriage seems to be an issue for white people in Western cultures that are well on their way to becoming statically insignificant because of their passionate embrace of contraception and abortion. A more interesting question is how long will postmodern western “values” survive without postmodern Westerners. In the meantime, feel free to rearrange the deck chairs and ignore that list towards the bow.
Comment by Brad — 12/23/2008 @ 9:56 pm
This liberal agrees with you completely, Rick. Your blogs aways make me think and sometime change my position, even if only slightly but this time you are saying clearly what I feel. My son is gay and both he and his long time partner feel that the whole marriage bit has been blown out of proportion. They’re worried about what most of the rest of us are worried about; jobs, taxes, the economy, Irag, how the new government will perform. They also wish that some of their fellow gays would “shut the hell up”.
These next few months, I think, are going to be among the most important this ocuntry has ever gone thorough. The wedge issue folks need to go back into their holes and stew if they can’t see the necessity of our new government succeding.
Thank you for your blog and Merry Christmas.
Comment by Gaia's Child — 12/23/2008 @ 11:28 pm
Every time the “gay community” seems to be making some progress, they get themselves in a tizzy over some mundane crap like Rick Warren, which makes them look like a bunch of reactionary crazies.
Comment by Neo — 12/24/2008 @ 1:00 am
So Obama’s decision to invite Pastor Warren has both the left and right foaming at the mouth? (When something pisses off both varieties of kooks, you know it must be a good thing!) Barack is starting to turn out to be quite the moderate after all, no?
The only comment to add to this fine post is that the day of federal intervention is coming sooner rather than later. As more and more state pass civil union laws or grant gays full marriage rights, more conflicts will come into play between other states and federal employee rules that don’t grant or recognize gay marriages. With both sides itching for a fight, we can expect the courts to hand down a decision that will become as famous as Loving v. Virginia.
Comment by Surabaya Stew — 12/24/2008 @ 3:12 am
Rick,
You don’t get it. As soon as homosexual fascists get marriage legalized, they want to stop religious speech. Furthermore, the entire left wing movement has been invigorated to overthrow all civil liberties in the marching forward of leftist political correctness outweighing all your rights and liberties that your founding fathers gave you.
You don’t get it. This IS a key battle in determining whether fascism or the bill of rights rules in the USA. They won’t stop with legalized marriage. They will demand the right that your children be taught that it is moral and right… and if you speak out against it - you’re going to jail. That’s where this is headed. This is extreme fascism.
It’s the same as Islamo-fascism. It isn’t a situation of 2 different views… it’s homo-fascism that will insist on it’s own version of pro-homo Sharia law.
I think, Rick, if you and others saw the homo-fascism as coming to rule you by homo sharia law… you’d see why I want the whole thing recriminalized and all rights stripped from this behavior.
It breeds fascism - and will bring the utter destruction of our nation as people who believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, DOI and the principles thereof.
You might as well be telling me that I shouldn’t oppose the Islamicists imposing Sharia law and battling to make Sharia law the law of my nation - let it go… focus on the economy. No. Once Islam gets a foothold in Sharia law - there is no more freedom.
Comment by anon — 12/24/2008 @ 12:23 pm
You said, “If individual religious sects (or, through the ballot box, a state) wishes to recognize unions of same sex couples as “marriage” or something similar who are we to say otherwise? It’s not anyone’s business and the idea that it should matter is rapidly becoming ridiculous.”
Civil marriage confers rights, privileges, and responsibilities, and in a just society, all citizens should have the same right to marriage. The “states rights” argument doesn’t cut it when basic freedoms are at stake.
For example, the last anti-miscegenation laws were struck down in 1967 by the Supreme Court ruling in Loving v. Virginia. Should the court have held that interracial marriage is up to each state? If you are intellectually honest, I suppose you would say “yes” to this one, and maybe you will.
A ruling ending laws against same-sex marriage may not come soon, but the Courts are the final defenders of the Constitution and that includes the equal protection clause. Give it time. If we start giving and taking rights at the ballot box, God help us all.
Comment by Roger Bell — 12/24/2008 @ 2:25 pm
Rick, as one of your conservative friends (I hope!)I have to say that considering marriage a trivial issue is not a good thing. There are a lot of stats out there as to the good and bad of marriage. But, it is the ideal way for TWO people of the opposite sex to cohabitate. It is, for me, much more than a contractual obligation. It is what I believe that God wants for humanity. Now, having written that, I endorse civil unions for same-sex couples. But I do believe that there are radical activists that do not want to have so-called full acceptance. That is the real issue here. And, Pastor Rick did NOT equate same-sex relationships to incest. The problem is that once this starts, there are aspects of relationships that have an “anything goes” mentality and despite what the proponents of same-sex “marriage” argue, there are those that will advocate relationships that would never have been thought of as bad. Ever heard of the National Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)? Most people, and most gays, find it repulsive. But, do you not realize that at some point, these people would argue for “their” rights. It is an uncomfortable topic, but not trivial. It is but one of the many reasons we are fighting Islamofacsist terrorists and their allies.
Comment by Mark J. Goluskin — 12/24/2008 @ 2:57 pm
My thoughts, exactly.
As an aside, if the Left and gay community want to place blame where it squarely belongs, that would be with the California Supreme Court’s ham-handed ruling. Just as the USSC’s asinine Roe decision made abortion an even more unsettled issue years later, the California high court prompted blacks, Hispanic Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, reactionaires, and people who simply dislike judicial activism to condemn the ruling via the ballot box. Hearts and minds are not won by judicial fiat. Just ask those of us who support choice but hate Roe. We told you so, way back when. My guess is gay marriage is about to become the Third Rail of American politics because the courts chose not to wait on the good senses of the voters.
Comment by obamathered — 12/24/2008 @ 4:20 pm
I’m disappointed that you use “the economy” as an excuse to disparage an unrelated issue. Hey, we’re still at war! Why is the economy an issue at all? We just elected the most liberal President in history! Why is the economy an issue at all? Sure, those issues affect the economy, and the economy IS a big issue, but are we to put *everything* on hold until things return to normalcy? And what of people who aren’t as worried about the economy as you are, or aren’t worried about it at all? Should everyone sit on their hands until you’re satisfied with your economic issues?
I happen to disagree with you that same sex marriage should be left up to the states, but your points on that subject are valid *enough* that I have little to add to that debate.
Comment by DoorHold — 12/24/2008 @ 4:53 pm
Rick,
My only objection is your view of settling things at the ballot box. Our country was formed as a republic, not a democracy. While I detest the idea of gay marriage, ’settling it at the ballot box’ was a bad idea. There IS a set of transcendant truths whether you or I like them or not. We were created male and female, period. This issue should be outside of any vote to validate it.
Comment by Mark Borzillo — 12/24/2008 @ 7:04 pm
I’m also opposed to gay marriage versus civil unions which I think are the way to go. However, I do believe that concentrating on these issues is counterproductive in the long run. The danger really is there to become a regional (southern) party and not be competitive on the East and West Coast.
Comment by funny man — 12/25/2008 @ 4:37 pm
Well said, Rick.
Comment by Chuck Tucson — 12/25/2008 @ 10:20 pm
Mark said:
“But, it is the ideal way for TWO people of the opposite sex to cohabitate. It is, for me, much more than a contractual obligation. It is what I believe that God wants for humanity.”
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with injecting God into politics. It does not matter a whit in a free society what you or I think God wants. We the people decide what is right for our nation. There are so many competing versions of what God wants, they all simply cannot be correct. I may think my version is the “correct” version, but in point of fact my opinion of God’s will is just that. An opinion. And so is yours.
As soon as politics moves to “that’s the way God wants it” then there is no room for discussion or compromise, the hallmarks of a democratic society. Then it is a short coast to punishing people for not doing things “God’s way.” We are all free to be influenced by our relationship with deity, and free to vote with that influence as the predominant influence. But “doing God’s will” as social policy is antidemocratic and just plain wrong in a pluralistic society.
Comment by still liberal — 12/27/2008 @ 12:57 pm