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2/21/2009
THE SANTELLI RANT: A RED BULL RUSH

CNBC’s Rick Santelli hit a raw nerve with his rant against President Obama’s mortgage bailout plan on the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade - a 10,000 volt charge of energy and anger that hit the internet with a force that transcended politics and spilled over into popular culture.

His words fell like a jackhammer on the hearts and souls of conservatives who had been struggling in recent weeks to define what was making them so uneasy about President Obama’s “savior based economy.” At stake; the soul of America - the very essence of what makes us different from other countries. Self reliance, personal responsibility, a belief that individuals count for more than the group, and a well developed sense of justice and fair play are being thrown under the bus. They are being tossed in favor of a bail out culture that spits on self reliance, sneers at personal responsibility, lumps Americans into manageable (and malleable) groups of victims, and penalizes those who play by the rules.

These are not the attributes that have animated the American heart since our founding. Rather, it is those cornerstone ideals mentioned above that make up the crux of what it means to be an American. And these values are under attack by a president who is using the economic crisis as an excuse to fundamentally alter the relationship between the governed and the governors - a change that the president never mentioned during his run for the presidency and is accomplishing by means of executive diktat and legislative fiat.

By destroying “American exceptionalism” - a concept that has come under increasing attack by the left over the years - the president, vigorously backed by his base of democratic socialists, is seeking to elevate the importance of government over the primacy of the individual - as clear a violation of the intent of the Constitution as anything President Bush ever did in the name of protecting us. The President may not be shredding the Constitution but he his tearing asunder the spirit of our founding document. What will be left after he is done will be a lifeless husk, a shadow of the way the Founders saw themselves and how we, the inheritors of their dreams, have betrayed their fundamental beliefs about man’s relationship to government.

President Obama apparently believes it is necessary to destroy who we are to save us. Most conservatives disagree. I don’t doubt the president has the best of intentions. Perhaps he even thinks that what he is proposing is not that radical, not so fundamentally abhorrent to I believe a majority of Americans. It is certain he thinks he is doing it for our own good.

But in his determination to solve our severe economic problems, he appears willing to seek solutions that undermine the fabric that sustained our ancestors through even tougher times than these. He is using a nuclear bomb where a scalpel is called for. And the question of whether there will be much of a patient left after he is done goes unanswered.

Mr. Santelli’s rant - a bracing, emotional explosion that elevated flagging spirits and galvanized the hearts of netwise conservatives - is a fine catalyst but to what end? A “tea party” is being planned for several cities on July 4 but realistically, can you say that this is the beginning of a mass movement to oppose the Obama Dependency? Frankly, I see no evidence that millions of people are moving in that direction. And by the time the 4th rolls around, how many who are so excited today will show up?

I don’t doubt the passion Mr. Santelli has generated among conservatives. I just doubt its staying power. To have any effect at all, millions must stand up and make their voices heard. So far, I don’t hear them. In fact, by large majorities, the American people are extremely uneasy about what Mr. Obama is doing but are either so in thrall to his personae or so frightened of losing their jobs that they are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course, the president stokes this fear at every opportunity - something about which even Bill Clinton is becoming concerned.

But we are seeing only the beginning of massive government intervention and takeover of the economy. What will the majority of people say when Treasury Secretary Geithner finally comes up with details of his plan for TARP II that may cost taxpayers more than a trillion dollars? or Stimulus, The Sequel? Or this mortgage bail out plan that currently stands at $75 billion but that some administration-friendly economists say could run closer to $200 billion? And don’t forget the health insurance plan that will almost certainly have a price tag in the hundreds of billions.

For each, there will be Obama out front, telling us we must have this spending plan or that bail out measure or all is lost. He will slam these bills through Congress in the first 6 months of his presidency because after that, even his own party will balk. By then, it will be way too late - the transformation of America will be complete and it will just be a matter of administering what America will have become; a series of dependent duchies with the federal government dictating the winners and losers in our economy while overseeing a massive transfer of wealth.

It can’t be stopped. Conservatives don’t have the votes. All we can do is rant like Mr. Santelli. But after the feel good rhetoric and the shot in the arm, we are left with a Red Bull rush - a splash of energy and excitement that will eventually fade and leave us feeling groggy and sluggish. Not for all of us, of course. But if conservatives are expecting to build mass opposition to the president using Mr. Santelli’s outburst, that would be wishful thinking indeed. Such a cause needs organization, volunteers, and most of all, money.

Michelle Malkin is trying and if anyone can keep the right at an emotional high, it’s her. But so much more is needed to make an impact that I fear even such noble efforts are a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

When ordinary Americans in their millions become involved, I will be glad to hop aboard the bandwagon and wave the bloody shirt from the battlements. Until then, I think I’m already crashing from my Santelli Energy Drink and feel like taking a nap.

UPDATE

Eeeesh - re-reading this piece, I see that it came out much more negatively than I was actually thinking. Sorry - don’t feel like a massive rewrite but allow me a few points that I should have made above.

1. It is early yet. Much of my negativity is based on the idea that I don’t see the kind of mass groundswell of support beyond the environs of the conservative internet (including social networking sites). I may yet be proved wrong if this is actually the beginnings of a mass movement against dependency.

2. One side benefit is that this will probably serve as a catalyst to organize the right side of the internet in ways that we can only guess at now. I would watch a couple of websites like The Next Right and Rebuild the Party to see how those very smart folks latch on and try and lead this movement.

3. It was not my intent to dampen spirits just as it was not my intent during the campaign when I wrote gloomy analyses of McCain’s chances to discourage anyone from voting. Those who will make the argument that I am trying to spoil the party should really grow up a little. I am a rationalist and am offering my opinion, seeing the situation with gimlet eyed reason and skepticism. I will be overjoyed if I am wrong. But dreaming of a mass movement and creating one out of nothing are two different propositions. We want our dreams to come true but there is a gargantuan amount of work to be done in order to realize that dream. It can’t be done in months. But it very well may bear fruit in 2010.

By: Rick Moran at 8:38 am
70 Responses to “THE SANTELLI RANT: A RED BULL RUSH”
  1. 1
    sara in va Said:
    9:38 am 

    Glad you added the Update. After spending much of my morning signing up for Twitter Projects, DontGo, the Tea Party at the National Mall - I was feeling kinda energized. You almost brought me back to earth.

    People have been saying that the administration is overwhelming us with bad news and fixes. It makes us feel like we are powerless. We want to take a nap, as you say, in the poppy fields. “I’m tired. I’m just going to sleep right now.” Then we never wake up.

    Refuse to let it all overwhelm you. Recognize it for what it is: A real attempt to make you feel like you need someone else to be in control.

    Hey, I’m talking to myself here. I need to get off the computer and out and about. I am constantly reminded of the scene in Waiting for Godot.

    Let’s Go.
    Yes, let’s go.
    (They do not move)

    That’s what we all are doing…talking about doing something but not really doing anything.

    The tea parties, the little street protests, may not add to much right now, but at least we aren’t dead men walking, yet.

  2. 2
    michael reynolds Said:
    9:43 am 

    And a little anchorman shall lead them . . .

    This is totally going to work for you guys. The new Republican Holy Trinity of Rush Limbaugh, Joe the Plumber and Rick the Ranter will conquer the Dread President Obama.

    And soon neighborhoods will be filled with boarded up, repo’d homes and all will be Right with the world.

  3. 3
    Neo Said:
    9:53 am 

    The “New Era of Responsibility” has been reduced to this.

  4. 4
    flmom Said:
    9:54 am 

    This is how the Progressive movement has manged to slink it’s way into our culture. Too many people thinking that it’s of no use. We shrug our shoulders and think “Oh well, what can you do”. By silently sitting by and letting the Left take away and remake our national identity, we are as much to blame as them. So, I’m glad you updated your rather pessimistic outlook on the growing dissent that is starting to snowball, but if we stay silent we are giving the Left tacit approval to forge ahead with the “remaking of America”. By the way, the words in quotation are Obama’s own from his inaugural address. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

  5. 5
    sara in va Said:
    9:56 am 

    michael

    No, they will be filled up with ACORN activists who claimed the foreclosed homes as theirs. No payments needed. Obama will provide cover.

  6. 6
    bear1909 Said:
    10:03 am 

    Fortunes are made at the bottom. And we are nearing it. Smart Americans are not simply interested in Congressional or Presidential election victories— we are focused on the basis of the Founding Fathers dream– the capacity of each citizen to create wealth. Despite what the pinheaded BHo tries to do legislatively, the devil will be in the enforcement of the “laws” passed and trying to find money to pay for everything he wants to buy. The map BHo is showing us is not the territory.

    Protest is great. But it is just protest. The Boston Tea Party destroyed property. It wasn’t a bunch of bunnies marching with signs who do the gotcha style rendition of CodePink in reverse.

    Smart Americans are planning a revenge on the slime in Congress and the ooze occupying the WHite House. And it DOES NOT involve destruction of property or bunny walking in circles with signs or bloviating on a blog.

    It involves creating wealth. The needs of our Nation right now are so great and technology so advanced as to create a perfect storm for generating new profits and remaking the financial fabric of a country that sorely needs an entrepreneurial solution to fiat currency banks. Social networking, new electronic banking models, and more than enough cash rich capital investors who dont need middle men like Hank Paulson—- are just a few of the necessary ingredients to smash both Congress and BHo’s latest ruse to lockdown Democratic votes.

    BagMen narcissists like BHo and megalomaniacal congressional leaders like Pelosi Galore and Bending Reid evaporate overnight as the sharks they attempt to lead eat their feet while they stand mired in their own delusions to power and control.

    In the meantime, to you, the average smart American— will you be wasting your time with symbolic gotcha politics in reverse of the Left’s past 8 years worth? Or will you be out there putting together the counter-solution to the bailout culture: micro-financed prosperity based on raw capitalist principles for creating real wealth.

    All the seeds are there. The choice is ours.

  7. 7
    Lily Said:
    10:07 am 

    “And soon neighborhoods will be filled with boarded up, repo’d homes and all will be Right with the world.”

    Good grief - yes, we are going through a very rough time - it will get worse before it gets better. However, the real estate market will stabilized at some point. The question is, what will have left when it does? If we give away our freedom and our liberty in hopes of preventing the (inevitable) economic pain, what have we gained?

    People, stand firm to your principals. Let us not go gently into ruinous socialism.

    We are going to have to change the way we approach government. Calling and writing your representatives is just not working anymore. We need to turn our attention to this problem. I know we are busy people, but it is important to make time for this - our country’s future depends on it.

  8. 8
    dennis o day Said:
    10:17 am 

    the real leadership will come when the day the average american stands up, gets rid of the Nasty Nancy Pelosis and Leper Hairy Greeds of the world, ad gets educated enough not to be fooled by charlatans like Bill Clinton, Obama, or even someone like ex-illinios governor Blago. Until character again matters, these failures will conntinue.

  9. 9
    libocrat Said:
    10:17 am 

    Hey Michael Reynolds, are you a Community Organizer?
    Seriously dimbulb, what Government entity pays for you to slobber like a lap dog.
    Tell you spineless mindless moron!! Teacher is my guess.

  10. 10
    bear1909 Said:
    10:21 am 

    Regarding my previous post about wealth creation versus symbolic protests: we haven’t reached the stage where the colonists found themselves with the British crown in the pre-Revolutionary days.

    For example, the end of the French and Indian War meant tough economic times for colonial businesses that were providing timber, food, munitions, metalworking etc to the British Army fighting the French. The end of the war was also followed by massive tax increases by a non-sympathetic British Treasury trying to pay for extended wars of that century.

    An although those two circumstances APPEAR to be in effect now, circumstances are different in kind because the United States is on the verge of a full-scale war in Asia and the “Middle East” which will put the economy on the same war footing that will dwarf WW2’s. BHo’s stimulus plan will be scrapped. Spending for stimulus isn’t scheduled to begin until some time 2010 at the earliest. In the meantime, Clintonian-style profiteering and bungling will set the stage for war with Russia and China in order to settle the imbalance of accounts that drives the current crisis.

    The pre-requisite ingredient is FEAR, now that GREED no longer drives private investment in markets (although it certainly has driven pigs to the government trough for bailout cash).

    People in the US are afraid. And the impotent BHo and his Clintonian stooges will continue to lead the country to a war path that will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like bake sales.

    In short, the distraction of stimulus and bank bailouts and all of that are simply just that- distraction.

    More war is imminent. Will smart Americans be on the net loss side of that equation hoping the government will come to its senses? Or will they be on the net gain side of it building businesses that create wealth and self-reliance?

    That choice is ours. Wealth first. Prosperity second. Trying to control the idiocy of government? Not even in the top ten.

    Wealth first—- then own your government. Ya cant be in debt and own the government. The Founding Fathers owned - and therefore- controlled their government.

    The choice is ours.

  11. 11
    sara in va Said:
    10:32 am 

    bear1909

    What the hell are you talking about? I assume you are convinced that our socialist President won’t resort to seizing privately owned assets to fund his war machine?

    Also, I think you meant “omnipotent”, not impotent when describing our dear leader. Ah, if only he were impotent, I would be gratified knowing for sure what Michelle was really in it for.

  12. 12
    mary Said:
    10:52 am 

    I think you are a closet democrat. Mary

  13. 13
    Bill Said:
    10:53 am 

    It all boils down to this,

    Families were outbidding each other on homes like the ponzi scheme it truly was.
    They ramped up home prices well over 200% with the intention of moving out every 2 years with another 50% profit.

    Now that their scheme has backfired due to the banks realizing these people never really had an income, the government wants to deduct money out of our earnings so we can pay for their outrageously overpriced home mortgages.

    The younger generation will not be able to acquire these homes at the current price levels unless they too receive a government bailout.

    Incomes simply do not support current housing prices.

    Why can’t the government call a spade a spade?

  14. 14
    Lamontyoubigdummy Said:
    10:57 am 

    Drew M. over at AOSHQ put it perfectly.

    To Obama and the Democrats on the Hill, Americans fall into two categories.
    1.) Wards of the State
    2.) Revenue streams.

  15. 15
    rsg Said:
    11:02 am 

    Why would anyone think politicians, who are basically lawyers, know what’s best for them in their own life?

    We DON’T want to be like the rest of the world - a collective of dependent plebes who reliably vote for more and more government programs. That’s the road of a dull, “safe”, undynamic nation.

    Barry Hussein Obama and his cabal need to unleash the productive capital of this country. He won’t of course, he’s too steeped in Marxist dogma of class and race warfare. His mission in life is “social justice”, aka, “gettin whitey”.

    BHO is just a smoother talking version of Jackson or Sharpton, not much more.

  16. 16
    bear1909 Said:
    11:08 am 

    I just cringe when i read or hear people saying BHo is “smooth”. He never sounds the same. His diction, accent, something is always changed to suit his narcisstic opportunism. Overrated because Bush was such an absurd rendition of a public speaker.

  17. 17
    michael reynolds Said:
    11:09 am 

    Bill:

    Let’s not pretend the banks just suddenly figured out that income won’t cover payments. They’ve known this all along. The Ponzi scheme was theirs. They made paper billions off this scam and they were aided and abetted by everyone from the Fed to the White House to Congress, all in the thrall of an ideology of “marketplace magic.”

    Most of the people underwater weren’t speculators. They were just dumb asses trying to get a nice home in a nice neighborhood so their kids could go to good schools. The problem is that these dumb asses and the really big time, criminal idiots running the banks have made a mess so big that it bleeds all over the rest of us regardless of whether we were smart and pure of heart.

    So, as we frequently do, we are bailing out the dumb asses so their dumb assery won’t end up further destroying the economy as a whole. And we’re bailing out the criminals at the top for the same reason. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want six boarded up houses on my street. I have to think that might not help my property value or my quality of life.

  18. 18
    the Fly-Man Said:
    11:12 am 

    So ask yourselves this: If you had to pick someone to lead the GOP right now who would it be folks?

  19. 19
    MishMashZone » CNBC Santelli Emotional Rant Fuels “Tea-Parties” Across Nation Pinged With:
    11:31 am 

    [...] Rick Santellisaid it best on the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade, ask us if we want to pay for someone elses mortgage. [...]

  20. 20
    aoibhneas Said:
    12:35 pm 

    I wish you people would stop picking on Chimpy O’Dumbo. Afterall he is the reincarnation of Abe Lincoln, Gandhi and Jesus Christ combined. Chug that kool-aid and get with the program like michael reynolds, oberdouche, chrissie ‘I squat to pee’ matthews and the rest of the cultists.

    Up is down, right is left. Otherwise why aren’t the likes of Barney Franks, Dodd, algore, san fran nan and dirty harry reid hanging upside down from lamp posts? Oh yeah, that assclown senator from vermont wants to investigate the bush administration? Of course no time or desire to investigate the Chicago Way. Gotta love how the banks blew through Tarp I and now need more moolah even though they don’t want to lend. Ain’t Amerikkka great? When will there be a call for a 100% black man with all-american roots? Why the tainted white blood?

  21. 21
    michael reynolds Said:
    12:47 pm 

    Aoibhneas:

    I nominate you as the new spokesman of the GOP.

  22. 22
    retire05 Said:
    12:55 pm 

    Rick, if all Americans feel the way you do, waiting until millions of others are on the bandwagon before you jump on, the bandwagon will stay empty. That is the problem, the wait and see attitude.

    Be brave. Be one of the first to jump on that bandwagon and ask like-minded Americans to follow you. Or do you have to be lead?

  23. 23
    ChusseinC Said:
    1:04 pm 

    It is unfortunate some of your readers have to resort to name-calling instead of using a good factual argument to make their point. There are a number of places blame can be laid for this crisis. Let’s start with some of the mortgage companies that promoted subprime NINJA loans. Do you remember Countrywide folks? The only reason they went under is because they kept this bad debt on their books and didn’t pass it along packaged as CDO’s. Firms like Goldman Sachs pushed this junk onto gullible investors while at the same time they were dumping their holdings. Because of actions like these sophisticated money managers lost a lot of money. If they can be taken so can average people with a lot less knowledge who trusted their mortgage company. By the way when was the last time any of your readers had their home appraised? If you haven’t done it lately you are in for a big shock. Everyone should read Bad Money by Kevin Phillips to get a better perspective on the workings of financial markets and the root causes of this crisis.

  24. 24
    funny man Said:
    1:10 pm 

    Michael Reynolds:
    What is Aoibhneas trying to tell us? I read reread and still don’t have a clue. Maybe I’m not elitist enough to understand. You are right: Aoibhneas/Palin 2012

  25. 25
    Joe Said:
    1:14 pm 

    Obama realizes that capitalism has morphed into a cancer. Wages for middle class workers has stagnated since 1970, while the top 1% has accumulated more of the wealth since 1929! Thats whats happened to this country. Obama is trying to change that, thats supposed to be socialism? Don’t think so.

  26. 26
    matt foley Said:
    1:15 pm 

    everyone seems pretty vindictive when it comes to bank bosses. the truth is that they were never even close to being the biggest problem, and they didn’t know enough about the problem to have actually caused it. this is the infamous class envy, populist bs that has become so much a part of this administration. independent unscrupulous mortgage brokers were the problem, the community reinvestment act was the problem, the senate finance committee looking the other way was the problem, government regulator lawyers instead of industry experts were the problem, rating agencies were the problem, and fannie and freddie were the problem. fannie and freddie were buying up mortgage securities like there was no tomorrow, and their only defense was that if wall street was offering it then it must be worth buying. and nary a word about any of this will one hear from the media that isn’t cnbc. you want to talk about criminal? the government more derelict in its duty than the banks ever were, and the interesting thing of it is, the bank bosses and financial derivatives quants who caused part of the problem will actually suffer for their hubris while the government will only expand its power via regulatory authority. we put sarbanes-oxley in place, ostensibly to prevent this kind of stuff. it was more government regulation, but it didn’t prevent a meltdown from happening. the regulations were in place so who is to blame for them not being enforced. the previous administration? well, maybe, but most of this crap started in the mid nineties when housing prices became unhinged from the rate of inflation. and remember; the bush administration was warning us every couple of years from 2001 about the housing bubble.

  27. 27
    bsjones Said:
    1:22 pm 

    Rick,

    I agree with you that America is no longer a country of personal responsibility, self reliance, justice and fair play. This is not happening now as I write. It has already happened. The soul of America you refer to disappeared long ago. It was thrown under the bus decades ago.

    The soul as you describe it is largely a fiction.

    We already bail out banks.
    We already have social security
    we already have unemployment insurance
    we already have the FDIC
    we already make sure Wall Street won’t pay for its mistakes
    we already see to it the big three auto companies won’t fail
    the family farm is already a thing of the past
    the federal reserve already ’smooths’ out the business cycle
    we already have medicare
    we already have medicaid
    we already have massive agro business subsidies.

    We lost the last election and President Bush left the economy in a huge downward spiral. (Yes, he did have help from Democrats.) This is reality.

    Again, this is reality. A whole lot more went into this than besides Comrade Obama.

    The only Republican candidate for president who was remotely interested in the American soul as you describe it was Ron Paul. Fox News threw Paul under the bus for America’s (cross-dressing) Mayor”; we ended up with John “grumpy pants” McCain. An old man who dumped his first wife for a supply of fresh beer, and was right at the heart of the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980’s.

    The primacy of government over the individual and individual responsibility has been with us a long time. We had a chance to do something about all of this in the last election. Instead we nominated McCain as the Republican candidate for president.

  28. 28
    bsjones Said:
    1:37 pm 

    Now here’s a guy willing to put his Republican money where his mouth is.

    “Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal announced Friday that he will decline stimulus money specifically targeted at expanding state unemployment insurance coverage, becoming the first state executive to officially refuse any part of the federal government’s payout to states.

    In a statement, Jindal, who is slated to give the Republican response to President Barack Obama’s message to Congress on Tuesday, expressed concern that expanding unemployment insurance coverage would lead to increased unemployment insurance taxes later on.

    Now that’s principle!!

  29. 29
    Just Plain Bill Said:
    1:55 pm 

    And if everyone takes your attitude, then you will be correct that we will not attract the millions you are wanting to see.

  30. 30
    bsjones Said:
    2:06 pm 

    Rick,
    I think my main response to your post about the “American Soul” was lost in the ether.
    What happened?

    bs

  31. 31
    Ed Mabry Said:
    2:17 pm 

    Must one be a “conservative” to critique the inane problem solving of Washington democrats? How about us demoralized libertarians? The fact that nearly sixty percent of the US electorate thought they were getting the second coming of Lincoln and ended up with Spanky and Our Gang running the White House leaves a lot of constituents in the criticism pool.

  32. 32
    Stuck Said:
    2:23 pm 

    Typical Rick Moran

    Member of a party that has nearly destroyed the economy and backing a president leaving likely the biggest mess since Hoover to FDR, and now is yammering about “democratic socialists: and “soul” of AMerica. Pretending the past 8 to 30 years of republican dominance in American politics didn’t happen won’t make it go away. In other words, take responsibility for the RW failures, or just STFU and let us clean up your mess/

    And if in the process of “cleaning up” our mess you fundamentally alter the country? That’s just fine, I suppose. Things that don’t need changing are being changed. Sorry you can’t see it.

    ed.

  33. 33
    Stuck Said:
    2:42 pm 

    Things that don’t need changing are being changed. Sorry you can’t see it.

    That’s a subjective viewpoint I don’t agree with. If you believe it’s true then I suggest you stop whining and win an election. That is how to honor the real American Soul.

  34. 34
    Lily Said:
    2:45 pm 

    ChusseinC :

    I think we should open the discussion with congress and a few of our past presidents who used their oversight and regulatory power over lending institutions to force lenders to make loans to subprime borrowers (and don’t forget the activist groups like ACORN, supported by lawyers like B. Obama, who used the court system to do the same).

    Yes, the lenders discovered ways to pass the risk onto others, and then moved their new ideas into the prime mortgage markets as well.

    And the people - don’t for get the self-indulgent people who borrowed more money than they reasonably should.

    Plenty of blame to go around - but it does start with the government and their socially correct initiatives.

  35. 35
    michael reynolds Said:
    3:12 pm 

    Germany had a depression the 30’s, too, just like us. We had the New Deal, they had Nazis.

    It’s short-sighted to put adherence to ideology ahead of survival. All things considered, I think we did better with FDR than the Germans did following their path. And FDR was in time followed by Reagan, and the pendulum swung back. The job of intelligent government is to soften the blows so we can moderate the wild swings and stay in the sweet spot somewhere between Crazy Right and Crazy Left.

    I’ll echo what some others have said: if your party hadn’t been so staggeringly incompetent we wouldn’t now have to dedicate our party to cleaning up the mess. Next time try not screwing the pooch quite so spectacularly.

  36. 36
    bsjones Said:
    3:26 pm 

    Rick,

    Re: post #32

    Fundamentally altering the country is not the problem per se. We have fundamentally changed America so many times.

    In no particular order:
    Articles of Confederation
    rejecting the colonial master
    giving property owners the vote
    giving All White men the vote
    giving All Men the vote
    giving all Americans (men and women) the vote
    electing the Senate by majority vote
    prohibition
    repeal of prohibition
    presidential term limits
    transformation from an agrarian to an industrial to a service economy
    leaving the gold standard
    creation of a federal reserve bank
    isolationism to world policeman
    Republic to empire

    America is not static. Neither is the wider world. Politics is the work of deciding how to change America for the better in an ever changing world. Politics is navigating between bad change, no change, and effective change. I thought that was the point of your post IS THE RIGHT READY TO RETURN TO POWER?.

    I say all this with respect but wonder what I am missing.

  37. 37
    sara in va Said:
    3:28 pm 

    Stuck

    I see. “We” had our chance, now you have yours, and we need to STFU (ah, a college grad).

    I take it you are in favor of slavery reparations? Because this is what is happening, just nobody will call it that. This administration is obviously targeting assets of the “haves” to give to black people in urban areas. The haves got it by abusing black people, right? They shouldn’t have so much in the first place, right? Well, Obama will fix it.

    As the Obama administration takes a whip to our backs, “using the full force of the office” to force us into submitting to the massive transfer (stealing) of our wealth, when will be allowed to speak up again?

    After everything has been taken from us?

  38. 38
    bryan Said:
    3:32 pm 

    ITS TIME TO REVOLT!!!
    NOW THERE IS AN AMERICAN TRADITION!! GO INTO WORK ON MONDAY AND TELL YOUR EMPLOYER YOU WANT TO CLAIM “EXEMPT” STATUS ON YOUR W-4 FORM AND DON’T PAY ANY MORE TAXES!! WHAT WILL THEY DO IF WE ALL STOP PAYING OR PAY SUBSTANTIALLY LESS TAXES? REMEMBER, WE HAVE ALL OF THE CONTROL HERE. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS USE THE POWER WE HAVE!!!

  39. 39
    Lily Said:
    3:53 pm 

    “Germany had a depression the 30’s, too, just like us. We had the New Deal, they had Nazis.”

    This is just silly. The rise of the Nazi’s / Fascism in Germany has been directly attributed to the Treaty of Versailles, which were onerous for Germany and led to harsh economic conditions and general resentment by Germans toward the victors of WWI.

    You’re entitled to your own opinions - but not to you’re own facts

  40. 40
    JWS Said:
    4:09 pm 

    Sara came real close, but can’t say it, can’t actually say what it is that is dragging this country into socialism and reparations, in the name of fairness of course…

  41. 41
    Stuck Said:
    4:13 pm 

    sara in va

    and we need to STFU

    Solid advice for whiners, or come up with some new ideas other than the ones that have failed miserably for the country.

    I take it you are in favor of slavery reparations? Because this is what is happening, just nobody will call it that.

    More canards and strawmen. Is that all you have to offer.

    As the Obama administration takes a whip to our backs, “using the full force of the office” to force us into submitting to the massive transfer (stealing) of our wealth, when will be allowed to speak up again? After everything has been taken from us?

    LOL, what drama you whip yourselves into on the right. If you were right, and your not, why didn’t you speak up when GWB was shoveling billions down the rabbit hole in Iraq. At least the wealth Obama is allegedly stealing will remain in this country and not in Chalabi et al’s bank account.

  42. 42
    sara in va Said:
    4:19 pm 

    Stuck

    Your answer was priceless. Thanks for that, really.

  43. 43
    Joe Said:
    4:21 pm 

    Why do the far right people have to use names when talking about Obama or Reid or Pelosi? Its no wonder you people are out of power, name calling, thats your best argument? Keep listening to Rush and Hanitty, their good at name calling too. Intellectually it shows where you are at.

  44. 44
    funny man Said:
    4:22 pm 

    Lily,
    it is not accurate to say that the crash of 29 had nothing to do with the rise of the Nazis. Look at the votes in elections before and after. Sure, Germans also felt bitter about Versailles but apparently economic anxiety does a thing to the human psyche. In the mid-twenties the NSDAP was irrelevant.

  45. 45
    bsjones Said:
    4:32 pm 

    Lily,
    I think you and m. reynolds are saying the same thing with different words regarding Germany. The “harsh economic conditions” you speak of and the “depression” m. reynolds speak of were caused by the reparations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. The “harsh economic conditions” or “depression” were solved by Hitler’s Democratic Socialist Party in at least three ways: war, territorial expansion, and government/business partnerships.

    I don’t want to speak for m. reynolds, but I think his point is that the deficit spending on “The New Deal” is a better solution to a government facing “harsh economic conditions” than the deficit spending on war and territorial expansion that the Third Reich used to solve a similar problem (harsh economic conditions).

    This does not mean that Germans were not also looking for pay back and asserting a desire for their “rightful place” in world history.

  46. 46
    cedarhill Said:
    4:40 pm 

    The problem with Obama and Marxism in general is the “from each according to his ability” and forgetting folks usually would prefer to keep what they make and give to those they consider in need. It’s the lack of fairness. It is a groundswell but only for the half that actually pay income taxes.

    Obama is dead set on getting to a population that is 51 percent dependent. We’ll see if he makes it.

    If Obama does get to the tipping point one wonders if he’ll go the Chavez route and spend his next term in office trying to make his Presidency a simple dictatorship versus the complex one he’s now building.

  47. 47
    retire05 Said:
    4:48 pm 

    I love how Obama tells us we must all have some “skin” in the game and share the pain. If that is true, why are seven of the ten richest Congress critters Democrats? Why doesn’t Kerry or Jay Rockefeller share their wealth, bringing them down to the wealth level of the average American?

    Equality among the proletarian but not the politburo?

  48. 48
    bear1909 Said:
    4:54 pm 

    As a businessman and entrepreneurial refugee from academia now in my 14th year paying my own way while paying taxes, I say all of this RIGHT/LEFT, DHIMMICRAT/REPUBLICAN dialectic is fruitless, albeit entertaining, grist for the public chatteries.

    Until it is impossible for an American to take an idea for meeting a need, materialize it with a buck and an operating plan, take it to market and make a profit— until this simple step by step approach to economic survival is all but impossible, no one has an excuse for going without.

    There are poor and illiterate Americans here in my town that are making a profitable— and tax free—- living recycling cans and bottles. They live according to how hard they want to work everyday. Hmmm. What a “life plan”. Suze Ormann anybody? I know 2 single mothers that are splitting receipts of $250,000.00 after taxes by managing a “stable” of housecleaners. They started with buckets, mops and a bus pass. Yes, their taxes have gone up over the past 5 years….guess what they wrote that into their plan and passed the expense on to their clients in a sensible long term way. Their competitors didnt and now they are leading the pack.

    Common sense. Control the stuff you can control. And stay abreast of the trends—- not reactionary crap from DC either. Stay abreast of opportunities to build a real retirement system.

    Are we using the technology we have to be profitable? Or just clever. My computer is a cash machine. Our retirement system is non-existent as long as we look to government to provide what 800 a month?

    I am just livid BHo got elected. He is a tinpot Banana Republic wanabe dictator, and a national disgrace— as have we collectively become, a feminized, co-dependent, emasculated electorate that can’t screen this kind of virus out of its political immune system.

    Time to eat.

    Bear1909out.

  49. 49
    George Sorros: Current Financial Crisis Showing Signs Worse Than Great Depression And Resembles The Downfall Of The Soviet Union | THE GUN TOTING LIBERAL™ Pinged With:
    6:37 pm 

    [...] as THE Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit, Rick Moran of Right Wing Nuthouse and Dan Riehl of Riehl World View. WOW. I’m so confused now. These same pundits who helped [...]

  50. 50
    michael reynolds Said:
    6:57 pm 

    Lily:

    The point — which I thought was obvious — was that one of the reasons to soften the blow of economic hard times is to dampen political extremism.

    Pushing a “screw the losers!” ideology in a country where the losers are perfectly capable of voting themselves an ever larger portion of my income in taxes seems like a stupid idea to me.

    A practical person — as opposed to a half-bright ideologue — might think it better to keep the house next door occupied as opposed to boarded up with a repo sign on the lawn. A practical person might think it’s better to have a struggling working class family feeling a sense of identity with the middle class rather than feeling themselves a member of an impoverished class.

    See, I don’t really give a rat’s ass about ideology or purity or some ill-formed mythology, what I care about is s stable society where I can go merrily on making a nice living. And since the odds are pretty good that I’ll be paying a hell of a lot more of the bill than most of you, I’m kind of wondering why you’re so determined to punish some dumb ass who got into an underwater mortgage because he wanted to get his kids into a decent school system.

  51. 51
    sara in va Said:
    8:04 pm 

    Michael,

    Whew, aren’t you a snob? What gives you the impression you will “pay a hell of a lot more of the bill than most of” us? Our writing style? Because we disagree with you, we are therefore stunted mentally and financially? Gee, wonder where the term “elitist” comes from.

    Most of us don’t want to “punch some dumb ass”, we just don’t want to pay his bills. And it is pretty disgusting that you think you have the right to tell us that we should want to.

    Ideology, purity, ill-formed mythologies. What do you believe in Michael, besides your own intellectual superiority?

  52. 52
    bsjones Said:
    8:10 pm 

    Here’s my story.

    I bought by first home in 2003 for $165,000, using $40,000 as a down payment. I got a 15 year mortgage which would save me on interest because I could well afford the higher payments. I knew housing prices were inflating but my expectations were modest and realistic (or so I thought).

    If my home fetched $165,000 when I sold it in 15 years I would be doing alright. The house would be paid off and I would have $165,000 in my pocket when I sold it. No appreciation. No speculation. No flipping. Just the equity I earned each year (minus inflation) and a roof over my head to call home. The American Dream. Heaps better than renting. Right?

    In March of 2006 my wife lost her job due to a slowing local economy. She didn’t miss a beat. Without passing go to file for unemployment benefits she took three part time jobs. No health insurance; these were part time jobs. No big deal, we both were covered under my plan. She had always rejected health benefits from her previous employer anyway.

    She was looking for permanent full time work but couldn’t find it. My wife started looking for work outside the state. We put our house on the market. We were ready to pull up stakes. Follow the jobs.

    The house was on the market for a year when my wife finally found her job in a new state. She went out ahead of me to start work. I stayed behind (still working) to sell the house. Then, I lost my job.

    Since we were not getting any offers on the house, I rented it and joined my wife.

    New jobs in a new state for both of us. We are renting. The mortgage payment on our house seems a lot larger than before, so I contacted my bank and asked for a modification.

    All I asked was for them to extend the loan term from 15 to 30 years. It would have cut my payments in half and the bank would have made more money on the deal in the long run. I thought it was a no brainer. Win Win.

    They told me to call them back after I had missed three payments. What I heard was, “Go screw yourself!”

    I called another bank to get a traditional refinance. After asking a few questions, they said they could not help because I was “underwater”. Homes in my area had lost 40% of their value.

    I had put 20% down and now 60% of each mortgage payment goes to principle but I’m “underwater”.

    I’m not perfect. My assumptions weren’t perfect. Buying a house, just like everything else in life, is a risk. I might lose on this one.

    I played by the rules. I was a conservative risk taker.
    Right now my gut is telling me the system is set up for everyone but ordinary people like me.

    So if the new mortgage plan allows me to refinance my underwater house, I’ll do it.

    I hope nobody around here feels like I’m cheating them.

  53. 53
    sara in va Said:
    8:20 pm 

    Oh, duh.

    I forgot, Michael. You believe in Obama. But isn’t he kind of an ill-formed mythology?
    :
    :
    As a “practical person”, I punish my child when he does something wrong. I don’t give him an increase in his allowance. I have no idea what you think rewarding bad choices will get you in the long run. Hmmm. Maybe more bad choices? Did you learn it some other way?

  54. 54
    Asc Said:
    9:24 pm 

    Michael– you think it is wanting to punish someone to ask him to bear the consequences of his own bad decisions, rather than having all of us (who have troubles of our own) pay to bail him out?

    It’s not about punishing anyone for taking a mortgage they could not pay. It’s about not wanting us to be punished for his misdeeds. If the government pays to bail out these deadbeats, then it’s all taxpayers who are being punished.

    It’s not punishment for jumping off of your house’s roof if you are hurt when you hit the ground. It is just a natural result of the foolish decision you made. And if you do make such a foolish decision, don’t demand that strangers run in and hurt ourselves trying to catch you to break your self-imposed fall.

    And to Stuck: A lot of us HAVE complained about the money that GWB was spending. Loudly. However, wars always cost a lot– you can argue that going into Iraq was a bad idea (I agree), but once we were in, it was going to cost money.

    Anyone who supports this “stimulus” ought not raise the issue of Bush’s spending. Remember, deficit spending stimulates the economy! Obama told us that no, really, spending is the point, so we should not complain about the spending in this stimulus bill. So that being the case, why did the economy tank even though Bush has been “stimulating” the economy for years?

    For years the Keynesians told us that it was FDR’s deficit spending that ended the Depression… which is obviously false, given that the Depression continued unabated until WWII. So then the Keynesians told us that WWII, funded by deficit spending as it was, was the stimulus that “jump started” the economy.

    So if foreign wars are economic stimulators, and social spending is an economic stimulator as supporters of this stimulus tell us… what is wrong with Bush’s spending? He grew the government, formed a new cabinet level bureaucracy, increased Medicare benefits with the drug benefit, increased education spending with No Child Left Behind… these are the same kinds of things that are in this stimulus bill. (And yet the people who support this “stimulus” blame Bush for the economy tanking, without paying any attention to the Community Reinvestment Act and Fannie/Freddie, which got the real estate bubble going.)

    So which is it? Is it bad that Bush spent a ton of money, or is it good that Obama’s spending in his first month of office makes Bush look like a miser? You can’t have both; either spending is a waste of taxpayer money or it is not.

    My vote is that Bush wasted money, but at least he thought he was fighting America’s enemy in the process. As for Bush’s other spending, especially his spending in the last few months of his term like TARP, it’s unconscionable.

    Obama is wasting even more money, and his goal appears to be to get as many people dependent as possible so he can count on their votes. He who robs Peter to pay Paul can count on the support of Paul… and Obama/Pelosi/Reid are making darn sure that there are more Pauls than Peters.

    If Obama wanted the economy to recover, he could start by not talking it down all the time. Consumer confidence is needed if people are going to spend money, if employers are going to hire rather than lay off, if people are going to borrow rather than sock away what they can in case it is as bad as Obama says.

    It seems more like Obama wants this crisis to keep providing him and Rahm Emmanuel with the “opportunity” to force his hard-left agenda on an unsuspecting country (like thousand-page spending bills that NOT ONE of the people voting on has read because we have to hurry hurry hurry, no time to actually read what they’re imposing on their constituents!

  55. 55
    Chris Hebert Said:
    9:33 pm 

    In his NPR interview (see on Youtube), Obama said he wanted to redistribute wealth. His huge spending will take money from those who pay tax & have wealth, for decades to come. The only winners are people on the dole & govt. bureaucrats- the only ones who deserve it, per Obama (from what I can tell).

    Santelli for President!

  56. 56
    michael reynolds Said:
    10:17 pm 

    What gives you the impression you will “pay a hell of a lot more of the bill than most of” us?

    Statistics. I know how my year looks, I know the average household income, and I know tax rates. It’s not snobbery, it’s odds.

    Of course I have the right to tell you what I think you should do. It’s a free country, I have the gift of free speech, this is a political blog. What do you think all these people including Rick are doing here? They’re telling each other what they think they ought to do.

    As for what I believe in, it’s this: follow the constitution and beyond that get the job done, make things work. The economy is in serious danger. I think we need to get it out of serious danger. I ask myself, “Which is worse for me? Paying a few thousand bucks extra to bail out nitwits who fell for easy mortgage come-ons, or having a boarded-up house next door to me?”

    In simple economic and security terms the answer is obvious. I want and need my dumb ass neighbors to stay in their homes. And don’t give the “I punish my kids” line. I’m a parent, I know better. We apply gentle and non-damaging punishments, just enough pain to teach a lesson. We don’t throw our kids out of the house.

  57. 57
    Michelle Malkin: Tea Party U.S.A.: The movement grows Time To Unite America Legal Citizens Voters : Illegal Illegals Report Call ICE 1-866-DHS-2ICE Report Employers Call ICE 1-866-347-2423 “No Amnesty” English National Language Pinged With:
    11:30 pm 

    [...] Right Wing Nut House » THE SANTELLI RANT: A RED BULL RUSH [...]

  58. 58
    Jim Said:
    11:39 pm 

    If Rick Santelli had any shred of courage he would rant about the illegal seizure of WAMU, but why should he upset his boys at JP Morgan.

  59. 59
    bsjones Said:
    11:46 pm 

    No comedians.

    The 80 year old man that put an end to stagflation in America can be heard here:

    http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009/02/paul-volcker-feb20.html

    He is showing his age, but he speaks honestly and makes a few good points about our current financial calamity.

    Rick, Where’s my refi story?

  60. 60
    scott Said:
    1:18 am 

    Now here’s a guy willing to put his Republican money where his mouth is.

    “Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal announced Friday that he will decline stimulus money specifically targeted at expanding state unemployment insurance coverage, becoming the first state executive to officially refuse any part of the federal government’s payout to states.

    In a statement, Jindal, who is slated to give the Republican response to President Barack Obama’s message to Congress on Tuesday, expressed concern that expanding unemployment insurance coverage would lead to increased unemployment insurance taxes later on.

    Now that’s principle!!

    Now thats a guy we need in the whitehouse..not this current boob..

  61. 61
    bsjones Said:
    2:49 am 

    Rick,

    I’m always checking the responses in your blog to see what’s new. I posted a response about dealing with the banks as I try to secure a refinance for my home. I posted it at about 8:10. The weird thing is, sometimes I see it in with the other responses and other times it’s not there.

    What do you think is happening?

    I removed comment moderation but some comments still get caught as spam. Don’t know why. Just relax - I’ll get them up eventually.

    ed.

  62. 62
    sara in va Said:
    6:55 am 

    Michael,

    We apply gentle and non-damaging punishments, just enough pain to teach a lesson.

    So, using your parenting principles, when your son Michael Jr. does something wrong, you increase his allowance, and you penalize his sister Mary instead. That will teach Susie a lesson!

  63. 63
    sara in va Said:
    7:02 am 

    bsjones,

    From what I understand, you need to be living in the home to qualify for help. The goal is to keep people in shelter, not to mitigate financial pressure. Is that what the issue is with your refi?

  64. 64
    sara in va Said:
    7:04 am 

    Asc 54

    Fantastic post

  65. 65
    Drewsmom Said:
    9:37 am 

    With all this money flying outta here, think I could do better if I just quit my full and part time jobs and stayed at home claiming I COULD NOT FIND A JOB ANYWHERE …. what a sweet deal these people are going to CONTINUE TO GET, all on my dime I might add.

  66. 66
    bsjones Said:
    12:58 pm 

    Sara in Va,

    Yeah, it’s about financial pressure. Our standard of living has declined as a result of taking new jobs in a new town. As I read more about the proposed mortgage program it looks like I would not qualify without first committing fraud (i.e. lying) about where my primary residence is.

    The part that frustrates me is my own bank. “Sorry not interested right now. Miss three payments and we will talk.”, they say.

    My proposed mortgage modification would have increased their monthly revenue stream, made them more money over the life of the loan, and cut my payment in half. My bank was not interested.

    To paraphrase what Greenspan said recently: Capitalism only works when managers of financial institutions operate their businesses with enlightened self interest. Managers must actively monitor their firms capital and risk positions to maintain bank solvency.

    From what I can tell the bank that holds my loan would rather see me default than modify the term (the length of repayment) of the loan in a way that would make them more money.

    The real question is “Why?”

    Maybe they have securitized my loan so they don’t take the loss when I default.
    Maybe they have found a way to profit by my default with billions in giveaways and trillions in guarantees from the “nanny state”.
    Maybe the insolvency of the bank IS IN THE ENLIGHTENED SELF INTEREST OF ITS FINANCIAL MANAGERS. After all, none of them have lost their jobs or lost their “performance” bonuses.

    Sara, I do not want to turn this into a rant, but like you worry about the poor leaches bleeding our society dry with welfare fraud, I am worried about the masters of the universe that run it from commanding heights. I think they messed up and are continuing to do so. With no consequences for them.

    As for Santelli, I think he is a magician. He wants us to look at the shiny ball so he can help his friends complete their tricks.

    As for me, Ive already thought about my worst case scenario. The worst thing that can happen is I lose my house, my $40,000 down payment, and about $30,000 in equity. It’s not pretty, but I have accepted it as a worst case scenario. One more thing, Wells Fargo will own another house it can’t sell.

  67. 67
    sara in va Said:
    5:13 pm 

    bsjones,

    I think you found the answer. The bank securitized your loan, and cannot modify the terms without resecuritizing it and maybe there are no programs that you will fit into.

    How many other firms did you call? I assume as many as you could find, I probably would. We had a mortgage thru Wells Fargo a few years back. I don’t remember them being flexible, I think they hold their own paper. Many times you will find that when your original bank turns you down others are very interested because they have more flexibility. I think you ought to go thru a broker. Call around.

  68. 68
    funny man Said:
    6:23 pm 

    bsjones,
    good luck with your situation. I learned that people working for a bank are not necessarily the people with the best knowledge and advice. Perhaps advocacy groups can give you some hints. However, I don’t want to sound as a smartass, hopefully something will work out.

  69. 69
    bsjones Said:
    10:32 pm 

    funny man,
    Thanks for the support.

  70. 70
    Dale in NJ Said:
    1:44 pm 

    Michael Reynolds said:
    “Most of the people underwater weren’t speculators. They were just dumb asses trying to get a nice home in a nice neighborhood so their kids could go to good schools. The problem is that these dumb asses and the really big time, criminal idiots running the banks have made a mess so big that it bleeds all over the rest of us regardless of whether we were smart and pure of heart.

    So, as we frequently do, we are bailing out the dumb asses so their dumb assery won’t end up further destroying the economy as a whole. And we’re bailing out the criminals at the top for the same reason. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want six boarded up houses on my street. I have to think that might not help my property value or my quality of life.”

    These dumb-ass buyers we in on the scam as deep as the brokers, the bankers, WS and the government regulators. The rating agencies were also in on the scam, I haven’t heard anyone wanting to prosecute Standard and Poor’s or Moodys, like what happened to Arthur Andersen. These dumb-ass buyers knew they were on the edge or over the edge when they bought in, they were trying to stretch the envelope in order to look and play like they were in a wealthier class than they were in.

    As far as the boarded up houses and your property value or quality of life, you might find that the neighbors aren’t the kind of neighbors you want anyway. They could be the kind that never clean up the yard, or try to turn the back yard into an auto reclamation yard, or they like to entertain rather seedy people that like to party hard all night long. Your quality of life and property value are still in jeopardy.

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