contact
Main
Contact Me

about
About RightWing NutHouse

Site Stats

blog radio

Listen to internet radio with RINO Hour of Power on Blog Talk Radio
Click Here to Pay Learn More

testimonials

"Brilliant"
(Romeo St. Martin of Politics Watch-Canada)

"The epitome of a blogging orgasm"
(Cao of Cao's Blog)

"Rick Moran is one of the finest essayists in the blogosphere. ‘Nuff said. "
(Dave Schuler of The Glittering Eye)

archives
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004

search



blogroll

A CERTAIN SLANT OF LIGHT
A Conservative Lesbian
ABBAGAV
ACE OF SPADES
ALPHA PATRIOT
AM I A PUNDIT NOW
AMERICAN FUTURE
AMERICAN THINKER
ANCHORESS
AND RIGHTLY SO
ANDREW OLMSTED
ANKLEBITING PUNDITS
AREOPAGITICA
ATLAS SHRUGS
BACKCOUNTRY CONSERVATIVE
BASIL’S BLOG
BEAUTIFUL ATROCITIES
BELGRAVIA DISPATCH
BELMONT CLUB
BETSY’S PAGE
Blacksmiths of Lebanon
Blogs of War
BLUEY BLOG
BRAINSTERS BLOG
BUZZ MACHINE
CANINE PUNDIT
CAO’S BLOG
CAPTAINS QUARTERS
CATHOUSE CHAT
CHRENKOFF
CINDY SHEEHAN WATCH
Classical Values
Cold Fury
COMPOSITE DRAWLINGS
CONSERVATHINK
CONSERVATIVE THINK
CONTENTIONS
DAVE’S NOT HERE
DEANS WORLD
DICK McMICHAEL
Diggers Realm
DR. SANITY
E-CLAIRE
EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!
ELECTRIC VENOM
ERIC’S GRUMBLES BEFORE THE GRAVE
ESOTERICALLY.NET
FAUSTA’S BLOG
FLIGHT PUNDIT
FOURTH RAIL
FRED FRY INTERNATIONAL
GALLEY SLAVES
GATES OF VIENNA
HEALING IRAQ
http://blogcritics.org/
HUGH HEWITT
IMAO
INDEPUNDIT
INSTAPUNDIT
IOWAHAWK
IRAQ THE MODEL
JACKSON’S JUNCTION
JO’S CAFE
JOUST THE FACTS
KING OF FOOLS
LASHAWN BARBER’S CORNER
LASSOO OF TRUTH
LIBERTARIAN LEANINGS
LITTLE GREEN FOOTBALLS
LITTLE MISS ATTILA
LIVE BREATHE AND DIE
LUCIANNE.COM
MAGGIE’S FARM
MEMENTO MORON
MESOPOTAMIAN
MICHELLE MALKIN
MIDWEST PROGNOSTICATOR
MODERATELY THINKING
MOTOWN BLOG
MY VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY
mypetjawa
NaderNow
Neocon News
NEW SISYPHUS
NEW WORLD MAN
North Star National
Northerncrown
OUTSIDE THE BELTWAY
PATRIOTIC MOM
PATTERICO’S PONTIFICATIONS
POLIPUNDIT
Political Byline
POLITICAL MUSINGS
POLITICAL TEEN
POWERLINE
PRO CYNIC
PUBLIUS FORUM
QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS
RACE42008
RADICAL CENTRIST
Ravenwood’s Universe
RELEASE THE HOUNDS
RIGHT FROM LEFT
RIGHT VOICES
RIGHT WING NEWS
RIGHTFAITH
RIGHTWINGSPARKLE
ROGER L. SIMON
SHRINKRAPPED
Six Meat Buffet
Slowplay.com
SOCAL PUNDIT
SOCRATIC RYTHM METHOD
STOUT REPUBLICAN
TERRORISM UNVEILED
TFS MAGNUM
THE ART OF THE BLOG
THE BELMONT CLUB
The Conservative Cat
THE DONEGAL EXPRESS
THE LIBERAL WRONG-WING
THE LLAMA BUTCHERS
THE MAD PIGEON
THE MODERATE VOICE
THE PATRIETTE
THE POLITBURO DIKTAT
THE PRYHILLS
THE RED AMERICA
THE RESPLENDENT MANGO
THE RICK MORAN SHOW
THE SMARTER COP
THE SOAPBOX
THE STRATA-SPHERE
THE STRONG CONSERVATIVE
THE SUNNYE SIDE
THE VIVID AIR
THOUGHTS ONLINE
TIM BLAIR
TRANSATLANTIC INTELLIGENCER
TRANSTERRESTRIAL MUSINGS
TYGRRRR EXPRESS
VARIFRANK
VIKING PUNDIT
VINCE AUT MORIRE
VODKAPUNDIT
WALLO WORLD
WIDE AWAKES
WIZBANG
WUZZADEM
ZERO POINT BLOG


recentposts


RINO Hour of Power: Baltimore Riots: Are we in for a long, hot summer?

RINO Hour of Power: Is the GOP doing a better job of running Congress than the Democrats?

RINO Hour of Power: Hillary Announces: Should we bother to count the votes?

RINO Hour of Power: A Preview of the 2015 Major League Baseball Season

RINO Hour of Power: Indiana religious freedom law: Bigotry or defending the 1st Amendment?

RINO Hour of Power: A Conversation with David P. Goldman, AKA ‘Spengler’

RINO Hour of Power: Eight Year Anniversary of Broadcasting on Blog Talk Radio

RINO Hour of Power: Political Potpourrie

RINO Hour of Power: Mr. Netanyahu Goes to Washington

Boycott CPAC

RINO Hour of Power: GOP playing chicken with Homeland Security funding

RINO Hour of Power: What does the Brian Williams fiasco tell us about modern journalism?

RINO Hour of Power: The Vaccine Controversy and the Anti-Science Right

RINO Hour of Power: The State of the Union - The State of Obama’s Presidency

RINO Hour of Power: A Tour d’Horizon of Global Terrorism

RINO Hour of Power: How will Republican factionalism in the House affect Congress?

RINO Hour of Power: The Opening to Cuba

RINO Hour of Power: The Death of The New Republic

RINO Hour of Power: Political Potpourri

Ten Reasons Why Thanksgiving is My Favorite Holiday

RINO Hour of Power: The Fallout from Ferguson

RINO Hour of Power: Gruber Fallout and the Lame Duck Session of Congress

RINO Hour of Power: Election Night Extravaganza

RINO Hour of Power: GOP eyes Senate majority status one week from mid terms

RINO Hour of Power: War Drums Beating in Washington


categories

"24" (117)
ABLE DANGER (10)
American Issues Project (11)
Arizona Massacre (5)
Bailout (32)
Bird Flu (5)
Birthers (16)
Blackhawks (2)
Blagojevich (9)
Blogging (404)
Books (10)
CARNIVAL OF THE CLUELESS (68)
Caucasus (1)
CHICAGO BEARS (40)
Chicago Bulls (3)
Chicago East (3)
CIA VS. THE WHITE HOUSE (29)
Cindy Sheehan (13)
Climate Change (3)
Climate Chnage (11)
conservative reform (96)
cotton candy conservatives (20)
CPAC Conference (13)
Culture (11)
Debt ceiling (2)
Decision '08 (402)
Decision 2010 (13)
Decision 2012 (34)
Deficit reduction (5)
Election '06 (9)
Entitlement Crisis (4)
Environment (15)
Ethics (290)
Fairness Doctrine (1)
Financial Crisis (53)
FRED! (28)
FrontPage.Com (79)
Frum Forum (2)
Gaza incident (1)
General (431)
GOP Reform (61)
Government (295)
health care reform (66)
History (298)
Homeland Security (18)
IMMIGRATION REFORM (28)
IMPEACHMENT (3)
Iran (114)
IRAQI RECONCILIATION (13)
Israel vs. Hamas (6)
KATRINA (29)
Katrina Timeline (5)
Lebanon (18)
Liberal Congress (12)
Manzine (1)
Marvin Moonbat (14)
Media (262)
Middle East (183)
Moonbats (81)
National Health Insurance (4)
NET NEUTRALITY (2)
Newsreal Blog (1)
Obama inauguration (2)
Obama-Rezko (15)
OBAMANIA! (80)
Oil Spill (2)
Olympics (6)
Open House (1)
Palin (23)
Pirates (1)
PJ Media (119)
PJ Tatler (5)
Politics (1271)
Presidential Debates (7)
Presidential Transition (9)
RINO Hour of Power (140)
RNC (2)
S-CHIP (3)
Sarah Palin (5)
Science (70)
Space (33)
Sports (18)
Star Trek (1)
SUPER BOWL (7)
Supreme Court (28)
Swine Flu (4)
Tea Parties (15)
Technology (5)
Tenth Amendment (3)
The Caucasus (1)
The Law (19)
The Long War (11)
The Rick Moran Show (306)
Too Big To Fail (8)
Torture (2)
UNITED NATIONS (22)
Walpin Scandal (2)
War on Terror (402)
WATCHER'S COUNCIL (117)
WHITE SOX (7)
Who is Mr. Hsu? (7)
Wide Awakes Radio (9)
WORLD CUP (11)
WORLD POLITICS (127)
WORLD SERIES (16)


meta

Admin Login
Register
Valid XHTML
XFN







credits


Design by:


Hosted by:


Powered by:
5/15/2009
CAGE MATCH: CRIST vs. RUBIO

They might want to call it “Death Wish 2010,” or perhaps, “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Embrace Disaster.”

Just don’t call it “The Way Back.”

The Florida senate race, featuring moderate conservative Governor Charlie Crist being challenged in the GOP primary by former Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio, is shaping up to be a cage match between the party pragmatists and the litmus test conservatives. The contest will be played out before the entire nation and with the media gleefully watching as their newest made for television spectator sport — a real time broadcast of the Republican party’s destruction — comes to an HD flat screen near you.

Rubio, an attractive, dynamic, true blue conservative is the kind of candidate for which the right has been praying. John McCormick of The Weekly Standard got a little carried away in this panegyeric to Rubio, comparing the 37 year old to Barack Obama:

In some respects, Rubio is a little like another state legislator who ran for the U.S. Senate, Barack Obama. Like the president, Rubio points to his biography as a testament to the American dream. The son of Cuban immigrants who fled Castro’s regime, Rubio grew up in a working-class home–his father was a bartender and his mother a factory worker, casino maid, and Kmart stock clerk. He spent a year at Tarkio College in Missouri on a football scholarship before transferring to earn his bachelor’s degree at the University of Florida and his law degree at the University of Miami. He married his longtime girlfriend Jeannette, once a Miami Dolphins cheerleader and now the mother of their four young children. Raised and confirmed a Catholic, Rubio worships with his family at an evangelical church.

A compelling history indeed. Moderate Reihan Salam describes Rubio as something of a Republican Atlas with his “square-jawed all-American looks,” and a “deep belief in the healing power of tax cuts.”

Meanwhile, Crist had been the target of an intense lobbying effort by several top level GOP pols who believed that the governor would have the best chance of holding the seat being vacated by Mel Martinez. They convinced Crist to drop his re-election effort and enter the senate race thereby assuring the enmity of many conservatives in Florida and around the country.

To make matters worse, National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee Chairman, Senator John Cornyn, flip flopped on his promise to remain neutral in the senate race and 15 minutes after Crist’s announcement, he threw the resources of the NRSCC behind the governor. No doubt the endorsement was part of the deal to get Crist to run for the senate but it still makes the NRSCC look weak and untrustworthy.

Already, calls for Cornyn’s head are making the rounds in the conservative blogosphere and Eric Erikson of RedState started a Facebook Page “Not One Penny to the NRSCC.”

Rubio himself has already drawn blood by releasing an ad showing Crist with President Obama and a voice over of doom accusing him of being in favor of spending trillions of dollars and piling up debt for our children and grandchildren. It is very effective and gets to the nub of why conservatives are angry with Crist, who participated in a dog and pony show with President Obama, appearing with him at a town hall meeting supporting the stimulus bill.

But that’s not the only problem the base has with Crist. The guy is a political chameleon who a decade ago found it advantageous to portray himself as a Reagan conservative when it was kewl to be a man of the right. He even earned the nickname “Chain Gang Charlie” for his tough law and order personae during his stint as Attorney General.

Now, the political winds are blowing left and Crist is blowing with them. Salam has some choice words for Crist in his Daily Beast article:

One of the key conservative charges against Crist is that his decision to back President Obama’s stimulus package was utterly bankrupt. Crist seemed more interested in currying favor with the state’s army of public-sector workers than keeping the faith with conservative principles. And honestly, that’s exactly right. Crist is not a conservative. With his permanent tan and slick white mane, he’s more like a kinder, gentler Latin American caudillo, who wants nothing more than to be cheered on by adoring throngs. Crist would be right at home with Juan and Eva Peron, dancing the night away and promising free T-bone steaks to the impoverished masses. As governor, Crist has enjoyed tremendous popularity—he has Obama-like job-approval numbers—and he’s done it by hardly ever making tough calls.

There’s no question that Florida is trending Democratic, and it doesn’t help that the state’s economy is sinking into the marshy deep from whence it came. Crist is keenly aware of this, and he’s moved accordingly. In flush times, a decent number of Florida’s must-win Latinos, notably Miami’s highly influential Cuban-American community, were open to small-government Republicans. A punishing wave of foreclosures—which hit Latino families particularly hard—has changed all that. Earlier in his political career, when hard-edged conservatism was on the rise, Crist was known as “Chain Gang Charlie” for backing extreme punishments for convicted felons. Now he’s better known for his efforts to fight climate change and save the Everglades. There’s little doubt that Crist looks himself in the mirror every morning and sees a future president. So why not run for reelection as governor?

Why not, indeed, Salam points out that the next Florida governor will have to make some very tough calls as the tax base shrinks and needs grow. Crist decided to get while the going’s good in order to remain “the most popular political figure in Florida.”

Of course, his wooing by the NRSCC and establishment Republicans did not take into account that his run for the senate would leave a huge vacuum in Talahassee that a Democrat is very likely to fill come election time. Crist was a near sure thing for re-election and his playing musical chairs with GOP politics in Florida could very well cost the Republicans a governorship in a crucial swing state.

So instead of re-election, Crist will rain on conservative’s parade by elbowing Rubio aside. This is sure to anger Rubio’s mentor and cheerleader Jeb Bush who, despite being out of office, still maintains a great network of fundraisers and political operatives across the state. Will Jeb join in the civil war and choose sides, backing Rubio by steering money and political know how his way? I think it will depend on whether Jeb Bush wants to run for president himself some day. Going against establishment Republicans and openly supporting Rubio would anger the very people he would depend on for a presidential run down the road. Prior to Crist’s entrance in the race, it seemed a foregone conclusion that he would give a boost to his disciple. Already he had steered some fund raisers his way, resulting in a haul of about $360,000 in a couple of weeks. But the smart money says that Jeb will play a behind the scenes role while urging his supporters to do all they can to help Rubio.

What kind of a chance does he have? Better than you’d expect. A recent poll showed Crist far ahead with 54% to Rubio’s 8%. But that same poll showed only 23% of Republicans in the state who would “definitely” vote for him in the primary. And more than 65% of the state’s Republicans don’t know enough about Rubio to make a judgment.

With a solid base of support among Cuban Americans, Rubio may surprise - if he can raise the millions of dollars to compete with Crist’s proven fund raising acumen. Florida is a very expensive state to run a race and Rubio’s challenge will be to raise enough money - not as much as Crist but enough to be competitive - and hope that the anti-establishment attitudes that some pollsters are already seeing in the electorate will translate into victory for him in the August, 2010 primary.

The new conservatives have the race they say they’ve always wanted; one of their own versus a “moderate.” If the evangelical, family values, small government, low tax Rubio pulls it out it will shake the party establishment to the core. Not a bad thing necessarily although if Rubio gets slaughtered in the general election, where will the new conservatives be then?

Maybe they’ll say that Rubio wasn’t “conservative enough” and try again. One thing’s for sure, if the new conservatives can’t win in Florida, the question will be asked how they can possibly pull off a victory anywhere else?

By: Rick Moran at 10:48 am
27 Responses to “CAGE MATCH: CRIST vs. RUBIO”
  1. 1
    funny man Said:
    11:29 am 

    Yep, it’s on. We’ll see.

  2. 2
    Mark J. Goluskin Said:
    1:19 pm 

    One point is that it is a classic battle between an old, white moderate and an up-and-coming Hispanic conservative. I wonder how nasty it will get and that if Gov. Christ should pull off the primary, will he do it so ugly to turn off the Hispanic voters of Florida? I am pulling for Mr. Rubio as he is a fresh face, Hispanic and solidly conservative. Mr. Rubio is the future and Gov. Christ is the past.

  3. 3
    steveegg Said:
    1:34 pm 

    Florida is not a left-of-center state. Essentially the only way either Rubio or Crist loses is if the supporters of the other stay home (or actively supports the Democrat).

    That makes the NRSCC move maddening. They have openly declared that conservatives need not apply to become Senators.

  4. 4
    Michael S. Said:
    1:34 pm 

    Rick -

    Although you touch on it somewhat, you are missing another very important angle on this story. The FL GOP committee has already thrown their support hat into Crist’s ring as has, for the most part, the National committee. There has been a storm already brewing here in the state of Florida regarding the state’s GOP leader’s (Jim Greer) heavy-handed handling over the presidential and other elections. There is a very strong backlash building as the state GOP committee seems to be committed to a course of ‘we will dictate to you’ (the county and local GOP committees) regarding your committee membership as well as your endorsement choices in elections. There have even been calls to simply support Crist from the get-go completely and just skip the whole primary process because they (FL GOP) know better who we should vote for. At least two county GOP party committees so far have drafted letters of condemnation over these actions basically demanding that the FL GOP back the f!*^ off and save their endorsements until the primary process is completed. More than a few folks simply want to have a fair opportunity to vote for and select our own choice of candidate through an unbiased as possible primary process. We (the Florida voters) screwed the pooch and were more than helpful in getting McCain selected in presidential primary and many see Crist as being of the same mold. Things are going to get very hot and steamy down here in FL and it’s not just going to be the weather.

  5. 5
    michael reynolds Said:
    2:32 pm 

    This is going to be so good. Must remember to stock up on popcorn and beer.

  6. 6
    HyperIon Said:
    2:48 pm 

    Will “the base” go for Crist?
    Did “the base” go for Mitt?

  7. 7
    rjc Said:
    3:17 pm 

    I am constantly amazed at how someone can be considered conservative when he is rabidly pro-illegal immigration. Two years ago, when Mel Martinez carried water for Bush and sponsored the amnesty bill, there were “Dump Martinez” movements all around Florida, and I do believe it was over the amnesty issue.

    Last year Rubio, as Speaker of the Florida House, bottled up illegal immigration enforcement bills, carefully prepared by Florida citizen organizations (about 75% to 80% want illegal immigration controlled in this state, whose costs for illegal aliens are through the roof). Rubio even told those people he would allow the bills to be heard. In the end, he and his fellow Miami area Hispanic henchmen would not allow the bills to come up for a vote.

    He did a similar thing this year, although not as Speaker, to a bill concerned only with violent illegal alien criminals, nothing more. The only difference between him and Martinez is that Martinez said he was against amnesty in the beginning then later changed his mind, whereas Rubio lies about how his stand on illegal immigration at the very same time he is stabbing Floridians in the back over it.

    To me Rubio is no conservative, and I would not vote for him. Just because Crist is a RINO, and unacceptable to conservatives, does not mean they should accept just anyone. And from what I read in blogs and comments, most people are ignorant of Rubio’s actions. It’s amazing in these days of the internet and public disclosure of everything, how people can get still away with lying.

  8. 8
    michael reynolds Said:
    3:54 pm 

    RJC:

    Do you happen to have the complete list of litmus tests?

    I think it would be really helpful to have the complete, detailed list of things a person must agree with in order to be acceptable to folks like you.

    But in this case, I think you’re right to push hard on this issue. As a Democrat I’d love to see you folks alienate the dwindling portion of the Cuban community who might still be considering voting Republican. I think you should keep at it until there’s not a single Hispanic left in the GOP.

    No half measures! Extremism in the defense of electoral suicide is no vice!

  9. 9
    Freedoms Truth Said:
    4:13 pm 

    “Will “the base” go for Crist?
    Did “the base” go for Mitt?”

    Well…. Mitt lost the Florida primary to McCain by a not too large margin, and one factor in that margin was a last-minute call by Crist to endorse … McCain.

    Here’s how the base will see it: Rubio=Reagan-for-the-21st-century and Crist=McCain … which direction do you want the party to go in?

    I agree with Rick Moran that the NRSC move was maddening. I hadnt realized they *recruited* Crist, knowing Rubio was there already. Rubio and Crist could have been a great combo ticket for Florida in 2010 now we just have a mess.

    Meanwhile in Texas we have a Clash of the Titans between Perry and Kay Bailey Hutchison. Perry is edging KBH on account of stronger conservative support.

    At least the RINOs will have Castle and Delaware. (I predict Castle wins that race.)

  10. 10
    busboy33 Said:
    4:49 pm 

    Isn’t Crist . . . well, very well-liked and respected in Florida? This isn’t just a “moderate vs. hard-liner” contest taking place in an objective vacuum. Even if theoretically Rubio is “stronger” philosophically speaking, he’s gonna have a hell of an uphill battle against Crist.

  11. 11
    funny man Said:
    5:20 pm 

    busboy,
    of course he is and that might turn out to be no win-no win situation. However, this HAS to play out before we get back somewhat of unity. Think about Dems after 68.

  12. 12
    Juan Paxety Said:
    4:52 am 

    The problem that I have, and that folks I talk with have, is the state party dictating who is going to be allowed to run for what office. Republican officials have told Rubio to drop out and to run instead for Attorney General. Current AG Bill McCollum is the anointed Republican candidate for Governor. It’s the Bob Dole/John McCain - it’s their turn - syndrome all over again. The party leadership seems to think it can control who is going to hold office.

    I say let Rubio and Crist slug it out.

  13. 13
    rjc Said:
    5:58 am 

    Michael:

    “Litmus test” is not an issue with me. I am a church-going Catholic and would be willing to give even on a number of issues considered “Catholic” issues because I don’t believe they are dangerous to the country. Yes, I am a one-issue person: because I deeply believe that illegal immigration will ruin this country in a few decades if not reined in. I need not go into it. There are no good reasons - none - for the kind of immigration we have had in the past few decades, and the only arguments people use in favor of it are to call people rationally opposed to it names.

    It boggles my mind why the Republican party, or any party, would want to go out of its way to create a huge voting bloc just so it could pander to this voting bloc, and continue to grow it and pander to it. It’s like creating a situation of your own making where you can be practiced extortion on, so you can go on and on continually being extorted, until you have nothing left.

    I am not concerned any more with the Republican Party in Florida. With Rubio’s rise in popularity, the Party has shown they are nothing but Democrat wannabe’s. Doesn’t it bother anyone anymore that our “leaders” and those in control of party politics are no longer responsive to the people’s wishes? Are you saying, Michael, that we should go out and vote for people who are going to make us into another California? Great. Just what we need.

    I would rather go down not voting for these snakes. And hope against hope that something will happen (and do what I can to make it happen) to turn the tide. It wouldn’t be the first time a party was considered dead and rose again a few years later. I seem to remember not too long ago it was considered the Democratic Party was also considered dead. Time will tell.

    Oh, I have also contributed over a period of years to a “migrant worker” reach-out program, and would visit with them. This was under the guise of helping the poor. I of course learned that I definitely was not helping the poor, but was aiding a favored group of people illegally here take jobs away from Americans. I am not saying these are bad people; most are not. But just wanting a better life is not enough to support the kind of law breaking and general chaos that illegal immigration brings. Not to mention that at the bottom, it is a political power grab by La Raza. If you think it is just an unimportant side issue, I feel sorry for you.

  14. 14
    rjc Said:
    7:17 am 

    One more thought. Your implication, Michael, that by not supporting illegal immigration the Republican Party loses the Cubans in Miami is a case in point of how completely lost people in this country are: to assume that Republicans should be in favor of something so wrong just to keep those votes. Pardon me while I gag. (And, anyway, not all Cubans are in favor of illegal immigration.)

    I realize that sites like this, and almost all politically-oriented sites are not about the issues, but about how they affect political races, kind of like discussing a chess game. And there is nothing wrong with that. So let me say, in that light, that there are also many Democrats, and I am guessing quite a large number, who are against illegal immigration. And I believe it is only a matter of time before they become more vocal over it. There’s no telling how that would affect the “chess game”.

  15. 15
    michael reynolds Said:
    11:05 am 

    RJC:

    Since you identify yourself as “single issue” I think you concede that this is a litmus test for you. However, I take your broader denial of litmus-testing at face value.

    I am all for controlling the borders. (Cubans of course are not: they have a special exemption that allows them something very close to free entry into the US.) We have a basic right as a country to decide who comes in. Period.

    I agree it’s an important issue.

    It’s also an issue where the methods Republicans have proposed, and the rhetoric they have used, have turned off the entire Hispanic population. Inevitably when you build a wall to keep people out you end up insulting the friends and relatives of the people thus excluded.

    I personally have no objection to a wall, but I also enjoy a the occasional laugh at the expense of Republicans who have managed to use this issue to alienate the one growing voter bloc they should have been able to corral.

    If you want to be able to come at issues like this and not suffer the electoral consequences you need to learn to stifle your radio loudmouths who turn a reasonable desire for control of the borders into xenophobia. Yet another issue where genuine conservatives would do themselves a favor by severing partisan relations with the wingnuts.

  16. 16
    BD57 Said:
    2:11 pm 

    It’s annoying to see self-proclaimed Republicans employ the same labeling games in intra-party contests that the Dems use in inter-party elections.

    What in Hades is a “moderate conservative”?

    And - because we’re talking about litmus tests, how about we drop the conceit that only conservatives have them.

    There are most assuredly “litmus tests” which disqualify one from having the “moderate” qualifier - how about being honest about it? Even better, how about fessing up to what they are?

    Tell us what you “moderates” are for, not just what (and who) you are against.

  17. 17
    Chuck Tucson Said:
    5:29 pm 

    Tell us what you “moderates” are for, not just what (and who) you are against.

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say, moderation?

  18. 18
    BD57 Said:
    7:52 pm 

    Chuck:

    You’re right…

    Problem is, that’s just an affectation -

    “We’re fair and reasonable, we try to see both sides, we’re not dogmatic, we think we all should just be able to get along ….”

    Are we to be moderate in our love of freedom? In our defense of country? In our desire to leave our kids a better nation than we inherited?

    What are “moderates” - beyond people who seem to think they’re somehow superior to people who aren’t as enlightened as they are?

  19. 19
    busboy33 Said:
    10:31 pm 

    @BD57:

    “What are ‘moderates’ - beyond people who seem to think they’re somehow superior to people who aren’t as enlightened as they are?”

    Dunno — why are hard conservatives convincenced they are morally and intellectually superior to people who aren’t as enlightened as they are?

  20. 20
    funny man Said:
    11:23 pm 

    I think moderate/conservative is a smokescreen hiding a (normal) power struggle after a lost election. Some think we have to become more ‘pure’ other more ‘centrist’ to win. That’s all.

    Depending on what you regard as conservative I’m more conservative than Ann Coulter. However, there is one big difference. I just think liberals have a different idea about government, that’s it, end of story. Not so those folks, they just love to indulge in their liberal hate fest. Here is a new low:
    http://anncoulter.com/cgi-local/printer_friendly.cgi?article=312
    Now I know there are the same type-A-personalities on the other side. However, that only has to do with a personality disorder not conservative or liberal.

    So for me moderate/conservative is not the big issue. What is practical and doable is. Most of all, I’m TIRED to hear the claims of the ’shout-louder’ faction to be the honest true conservatives. Maybe they are but so are many others who might have different views on a number of topics (e.g. Iraq war) and who don’t have a pathological hatred of liberals. Just a thought: am I elitist if I’d rather listen to what David Brooks has to say (even if I don’t agree) then about musings of Joe the plumber?

  21. 21
    Commie Stooge Said:
    7:11 am 

    As a Democrat; I’d like to see the “Club for Growth” run candidates in every race in the nation.
    Heck; I’ll even contribute $25!
    The new mascot for the GOP should be Wiley E Coyote.
    And Boss Limbaugh makes a great spokesman.

  22. 22
    BD57 Said:
    12:46 pm 

    busboy:

    Now this is fun ….

    so called ‘hard conservatives’ have policy views. Stronger military; missile defense; lower taxes, fewer regulations; respect for religion in American life; support for marriage (and so on).

    If you think they’re claiming moral superiority, it may just be that you don’t like them being sure of what they believe - a lot of people think refusing to back down when challenged is somehow ‘arrogant.’

    I have noted a pattern - - - - even in the face of direct requests to state the ‘moderate’ platform, it doesn’t happen …

    C’mon guys - it ought not be this hard to answer the question.

  23. 23
    Thomas Jackson Said:
    9:29 pm 

    Describing Crist as a conservative is like calling Specter a rightwing stalwart.

    Obviously you’re using the NY Times frame of reference here. Try and be objective.

  24. 24
    Maggie's Farm Trackbacked With:
    3:49 am 

    Monday morning links…

    Invasion of the Lionfish (photo). Sheesh. But they are highly edible.
    The Alinsky explanation for the O and the Dem agenda. Dino
    The humiliations of the modern Dad. Dr. Helen. Lucky Glenn.
    Moslems call for Jihad in NYC. No wonder they have a lo…

  25. 25
    Larry Bernard Said:
    8:24 pm 

    Rubio is no far right nutjob
    He is tot he right of Charlie Crist but thats not particularly hard (and Mel Martinez)

    He has a Centrist record in Tallahassee where he worked with Crist.

    Crist and the National GOP are tagging this Moderates Vs Conservatives

    they want to make this a war

  26. 26
    Chuck Tucson Said:
    9:20 am 

    BD57 said:

    I have noted a pattern - - - - even in the face of direct requests to state the ‘moderate’ platform, it doesn’t happen … C’mon guys - it ought not be this hard to answer the question.

    You’re not going to get an answer, because your question is bunk and makes zero sense. But, you already know that. Which is why you’re standing on our soap box thumping your chest so hard. You think you’re right. You think you’ve got the ignorant rubes beat. But, the rest of us are actually laughing at you.

    “Moderate” isn’t a political party. There is no platform. It’s a philosophy applied to certain aspects of life where absolutism is detrimental for more people than a less rigid position. Your grand standing on the issue is laughable, and either you’re a troll, or you simply don’t get it.

  27. 27
    busboy33 Said:
    1:30 pm 

    @BD57:

    Chuck got it, but I’ll play along.

    “so called ‘hard conservatives’ have policy views. Stronger military; missile defense; lower taxes, fewer regulations; respect for religion in American life; support for marriage (and so on).”

    Those aren’t policy views . . . those are preferences.
    “Lower taxes” — how low? 10%? 5%? 1% Zero? How is that Stronger military and missle defence getting paid for?
    “Stronger military” — Same problem, other way. Mandatory 20-year compulsory service? An M-1 Abrams in every driveway?
    “Respect for Religion in life” — this is like being for infants and puppies. It’s a lovely sentiment that means nothing. What does being “for” religion mean? The government will hand out Bibles (that would certainly be “for” Religion)? If so, what version? If I’m a doctor, would you support my Religious view that I shouldn’t have to treat a Jew because they killed the Christ? You respect religion in life, right?

    and so on . . .

    I hesitate to speak for Moderates, but for me a moderate considers the issues for a specific, particular problem. How they come down will change as the facts change. Idealogues (Right and Left) don’t care what the facts are, they have an answer before they even hear the question.

    Let me use your “lower taxes” policy position again as an example. Do you honestly think Democrats and/or liberals think “higher taxes” is a positive policy position? That they sit around thinking “gee, things are going swell, but we just aren’t taxing people enough!” I hope you realize that’s nonsense. Or bigger government — Dems want to create government agencies because they are bored? If all the percieved needs of their constituencies were met, and the budget was in surplus, do you think that Dems would vote to raise taxes? Create more unnecessary agencies? After all, they’re “for” higher taxes and big government, right? That’s their goal, right?

    The funny thing is . . . I was always tought that this was the conservative viewpoint, rather than the liberal viewpoint. The old “roadblock” parable:

    A Conservative and a Liberal are walking down the road, when they come across a roadblock running across the road. The Liberal became enraged. “This roadblock hampers travel on the road!” he thundered. “Let’s drag it to the side immediately and improve how this road works for everybody!”
    The Conservative put his hand on the Liberal’s shoulder, holding him back for a moment while he spoke in a calming voice. “You are right, the roadblock does hamper travel”, he said. “Perhaps moving it will be the best solution.”
    The Liberal became excited at that afirmation and surged forward to immediately dismantle the roadblock, but again the gentle hand of the Conservative gave him pause.
    “Before we do proceed,” The Conservative calmly said, “Perhaps you would clarify one small detail for me.”
    “Anything!” the Liberal said, eager to beging making the road a better one.
    The Conservative leaned closer.
    “Why is this roadblock here in the first place?” he whispered, as with a crash a giant boulder burst threw the woods on the side and rolled across the road, just on the other side of the roadblock.

    Sometimes roadblocks are a useless impediment and should be removed. Sometimes they serve a purpose. To go forward with the blanket position “all roadblocks must be torn down” or “All roads must be made as fast and useful as possible” is foolish.

    Guess what? Every policy belief you listed for hard conservatives is one I hold. I am for the best military, protection from missle attack, paying fewer taxes, less regulatory hassle, respect for religion and marriage. However, I’m not for wasting Trillions of dollars on useless weapons platforms simply because a contractor wants to get paid, budgeting the government into debt, letting people and industries act with Anarchistic freedom, or government control of personal matters of conscience. What’s the difference? well, after removing out the jingo-istic buzzwords . . . the difference is dependent on the situation and facts.

    Those policy positions are the mantra of the far right because they (a) sound good and (b) imply the far left are opposed to them. I’m for good things, you aren’t in my “for good things club”, so you must be against good things. If I say that the far left is for: helping your fellow man as Jesus tought, protecting citizens from being abused, guarding against oppressive government and protecting the environment for our children, does that mean the far right are for letting people be killed, oppression, and dumping toxic waste on maternity wards? Of course not.

    What you identify as “what hard conservatives” are for is what EVERYBODY is for. Moderates balance those ideals against practical realities in particular situations. I guess hard conservatives never do (snark).

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.