NOTHING MUCH TO SAY ABOUT TILLER’S DEATH
I’ll let the usual suspects rant on in the comments - on both sides (although I don’t think there are too many rabid right to lifers who visit this site anymore). But frankly, I have absolutely nothing original to add to the discussion.
I agree with everybody. Tiller was a moral cretin. His death was uncalled for. We are a nation of laws and this is not the way to go about settling a political dispute. The Randall Terry’s of the world should be arrested as accomplices. Excessive ideological rhetoric enabled the guy who killed him. And left wing liberals who seek to make political hay out of Tiller’s death have the same moral sense as the guy who pulled the trigger.
Did I miss anybody? Whatever your point of view, you’re right so arguing is a waste of time and bandwidth.
I will say that this is why I hate abortion as an issue and why the single issue fanatics who drive this issue in both parties should be locked up in a box together and the key thrown away. The fact is, Tiller would be alive if abortion were not pushed to the forefront of American politics and used by both sides as a wedge issue to raise money, recruit activists, and garner votes.
That’s the bottom line. Hope you’re all proud of yourselves today - both sides.
Both sides? You’re going to have to explain that little assertion, because there is exactly one side that uses abortion as a wedge issue, and it isn’t the pro-choice crowd. Additionally, this does say something about the rampant irresponsibility of the conservative movement and its media arm specifically, and it would be foolish for liberals to not make those points. Demonizing liberals with over-the-top rhetoric is the lifeblood of the Republican party, and it isn’t going to be surprising to find out that it contributed in this case to a man’s death. Recently we found out that the guy that shot up a separate church did it because of Bernard Goldberg’s book. A couple of months ago someone lured police officers to their house to kill them because he became convinced by *someone* that Obama was going to take his guns away. Tiller’s death is no isolated incident. This has been going on for some time, and it’s likely to continue.
But you’d rather we not point fingers? Well, it wasn’t that long ago that the conservative movement repeatedly invoked Bill Ayers during a Presidential election because it “said something” about Barack Obama. Turnabout is still fair play, isn’t it?
Comment by FLIPPYDIPPITY — 6/1/2009 @ 8:17 am
The right always says “now is not the time to point fingers”….. if not now…..then when??? When, not if, some dittohead or beckhead or liddyhead or hannityhead trys to kill Obama? You know they’re planning the attempt right now. Somewhere in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee…maybe Indiana (the original KKK state) or another “heartland state with good traditional family values”…..there must be some “good American” who listens to Rush/Beck/Hannity thats going to believe 100% of their rhetoric and try to “save America” from the n*ggers, sp*cs, m*slims, socialists, fascists, communists….. oh yeah, and some doctors!!!
When the crazy right does something, its an isolated incident…..when a crazy from the left does something its a sympton of their moral depravity and non-existent values…
Lets hope the Colters, Malkins, Becks, etc drown in their tears of joy.
Yes, Rick, I’m a partisan hack but I don’t kill people I disagree with.
Comment by Nick — 6/1/2009 @ 9:13 am
FLIPPYDIPPITY said,
Psh. No way. Clearly the murder of this abortion doctor is everyone’s fault. Everyone should probably just stop talking about it, on the chance that everyone causes another doctor to be murdered. The last thing everyone needs is more blood on everyone’s hands.
Comment by Chuck Tucson — 6/1/2009 @ 9:51 am
Randall Terry is a creep. But his speech, however objectionable, is protected. Tiller’s actions are not protected.
If Operation Rescue knew in advance, or lent assistance or financial support then those actions may violate laws. But there’s no law against inflammatory rhetoric or stupidity.
Comment by michael reynolds — 6/1/2009 @ 9:54 am
“Recently we found out that the guy that shot up a separate church did it because of Bernard Goldberg’s book.”
No, he did it because he was a mentally unbalanced idiot.
Comment by Russell Miller — 6/1/2009 @ 9:57 am
Sorry, I mistyped. Tiller’s actions were protected, the killer’s actions were not.
Need more coffee.
Comment by michael reynolds — 6/1/2009 @ 10:15 am
I have to praise Mr. Moran for encapsulating his POV so succinctly. He usually takes about a thousand words to deliver the same old message: someone on the right did a very bad thing but only because the libs screwed up.
Wrong, dimwit. If you can prove I blame liberals for this guy’s murder by what I”ve written above, you have powers far beyond those of mortal men. I blame the single issue fanatics on both sides for making this an wedge issue in the first place. That would appear to most logical, reasoned people to exclude most liberals and conservatives.
But then you’re a walking talking point so what’s the use?
And actually, it’s more like two thousand words to make my point but who’s counting? Ignoramuses who have the attention span of an amoeba and the brains of a marmoset. After all, what on God’s green earth are you doing visiting this site if you complain about the length of my posts? I’m serious. The logic escapes me. You have to be a total, unmitigated idiot to read something that bores you. And if you don’t read it but insist on commenting, holy shit! That really is brainless. Commenting on something you haven’t bothered to read might be the height of idiocy. And if you did read it and was as bored as you claim to be, you are cow-like in your stupidity if you insist on coming back for more!
Might I suggest you visit Atrios who never blogs anything more than a couple of sentences for each post. That would seem to be a good match for your attention span.
ed.
Comment by HyperIon — 6/1/2009 @ 10:27 am
Rick;
Not sure I agree with that. This is not to condone inflammatory rhetoric but some feel very strongly about abortion regardless of the public “discussion”.
Also, no one was making a big political deal with “technology” and yet Ted Kaczinski felt it was a “political” issue worthy of mayhem.
And in case it isn’t assumed, IMHO the murder of Dr. Tiller was a despicable act.
Comment by c3 — 6/1/2009 @ 12:18 pm
Wow. That may be the best ass-reaming I’ve ever read (your response to comment #6). Treacher posts about a sentence a week too, in case Atrios is too long-winded.
I’ve got to disagree with you that politics is the culprit. The politics are a symptom- the issue itself resonates very strongly with people that don’t even vote. Whether one agrees that the living contents of a womb is a life or not does not negate the fact that there are millions of people that believe that it is a life, and is therefore a murder of a defenseless person. On the other side, are the people that believe so strongly that a woman has the right to choose what procedures are performed on her own body that they don’t really give a shit whether it is a life or not. There is definitely some middle ground between those two positions, but most of the people I know are represented by one of these two poles. No proof could change either one’s position, so the issue is a lightning bolt of conflict, whether one votes or not.
But a lot of those people do vote… which, of course, forces politicians to address the issue. They could no more ignore it than they could ignore a tax policy, or foreign policy or . Symptom, not cause.
Comment by lionheart — 6/1/2009 @ 12:47 pm
Murder is never a solution to anything! Tiller was wrong and the idiot who assassinated him was wrong! Creating another martyr is indefensibly stupid.
Comment by Gayle Miller — 6/1/2009 @ 2:06 pm
Depending on what you consider rabidly pro-life, I might qualify…. The origin of that is biology to philosophy, though, so I don’t know.
*shrug* Either way, violent nutcase with over 15 years of being a violent nutcase killed someone who made a living killing unwanted children who could survive outside of the womb, folks who support that are going to use it, and more kids older than my nephew was when he was born will be killed.
Ugh.
Comment by Foxfier — 6/1/2009 @ 3:47 pm
Its has been proven to us once again that “Pro-life” is a misnomer. These right wing jihadists are rabid anti-abortionists. Like it or not abortion is legal.
These un-American radical groups should be viewed for what they truly are; domestic terrorists. They should not be allowed to spew their brand of hatred and disorder.
To the Gulag with them! All of them!
Gee…ya think they can use those Haliburton built concentration camps out in Utah we built to hold all the liberals?
ed.
Comment by Bill — 6/2/2009 @ 7:25 am
There are many Americans like me that are so tired of decades of this screwy religious right wing psycho speak.
These folks call abortion murder, but it’s not, it’s legal, not murder.
They then advocate murder of people they don’t agree with and call it justice. They have abandoned our countries legal system in preference to their own self-defined legal system where they speak for God and strike down in his name any one they choose.
This is no different than the radical Muslims we are engaged with overseas.
We are spending billions to protect us from Muslims who is protecting us from radical Christians?
Comment by Bill — 6/2/2009 @ 8:01 am
Bill,
Do you realize how stupid you sound? Grow up.
First of all, this is not a “screwy religious right wing” issue. I’m as big an atheist as Moran and pro-life, so don’t group me in with the religious right. This is a moral issue, not religious.
Second, your statement
is sophomoric. Just because something is legal doesn’t stop it from being murder. You say a fetus isn’t a human being, I say it is. If it is, its murder. If its not, its not murder. Your logic would justify slavery prior to 1864- it was legal.
Third, you say “they advocate murder”. Who does? Name a single mainstream pro-life organization that has ever advocated vigilantism or murder. This guy was a loon, and you have plenty of those on your side too (probably more). I’m sure one of your loons will attempt a retribution killing soon enough.
You’re a fucking idiot, spouting talking points you read on Kos.
Comment by lionheart — 6/2/2009 @ 8:44 am
Bill-
What about what radical Muslims are engaged in here? Oh, wait, dead soldiers just out of basic don’t count, I guess….
Dang, I never knew how horribly inefficient my side is! We advocate the murder of those with the slightest doctrinal difference, yet disavow the once-a-decade killings…. Gee, we really must all be nuts, as well as horribly ineffective.
Guess we need to take lessons from those wonderful women-loving folks in the abortion business, who kill a minimum of ten adult women a year.
Comment by Foxfier — 6/2/2009 @ 10:46 am
@lionheart:
“Whether one agrees that the living contents of a womb is a life or not”
??? If its the “living” contents, then its alive . . . isn’t it? You say you’re open to the disparity of views on the topic, but the way you define the topic makes it seem like there’s only one answer.
Comment by busboy33 — 6/2/2009 @ 5:13 pm
We should all weep for a man who made a million dollars a year by protecting the right of women to have late term abortions. The nation needs such successful capitalists. Such icons of greed will establish a new standard for success and self sacrifice.
A nation that tolerates evil will never be able to remedy the diseases that will destroy it because it can never bring itself to confront the causes of those diseases much less accept the remedies. So observed the Romans while the barbarians were beating down the gates. They were right then, and as we observe correct today.
A nation without virtue is doomed.
Comment by Thomas Jackson — 6/2/2009 @ 11:48 pm