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8/8/2009
PALIN’S OUTRAGEOUS DEMAGOGUERY: WHY NOT? EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT.

I wholeheartedly agree that this statement by Sarah Palin on her Facebook page is unconscionable, outrageous, and either a deliberate lie, or proof that she really is an airhead:

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

You’re absolutely right, governor. That kind of a system would indeed be “downright evil.”

Except, there is nothing in any proposal by any Democrat, Republican, Greenie, Communist, New Nazi, or a Flat Earther on health care that even hints about a “death panel.” You’re just making stuff up.

In fact, it’s hard to know just what the hell you’re referring to. Are you talking about the now dead proposal for a Medicare commission to decide treatment options for diseases (not people)?

Most of the White House session focused on slowing the rapid growth in health care costs, lawmakers said afterward. That discussion centered on a White House proposal to empower an outside body, like the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, to make binding recommendations for cost cuts in government-run health care programs. Waxman and others previously opposed the idea, but the chairman made a verbal agreement to work with the seven Blue Dogs on his committee to break through an impasse that has stalled consideration of the enormous bill.

Sorry, but you’re a little out of the loop up there in Mooseland. The proposal was rejected within hours of the agreement.

Other than that, I can’t for the life of me, think of what you are talking about. Now it may be that you’ve seen something in one of the proposals making the rounds in Washington - a proposal that actually does have a “death panel” in it - or something that will do the same thing. If so, please share it with us. I would like to know who wants to turn America into ancient Sparta where the elders would examine all newborns and, if the child was found to be weak or otherwise flawed in their eyes, they would toss the screaming infant over a cliff.

I’m just wondering why you chose to spread this nonsensical information about health care reform. The damn bill is plenty bad enough without lying about it. Jesus Christ! Your loyal subjects, who don’t think you can do any wrong, are smart enough to figure that out without you having to demagogue the issue like a Democrat, for God’s sake!

We have entered a phase in the “debate” over health care where the two sides can’t lie enough about the other’s motives, intentions, and ancestry. One would think that resurrecting Winston Churchill was in order, there are so many Nazis to fight. Both sides have been flinging the “N” word (”Nazi”) around like a monkey in a zoo tossing his feces at the gawkers. Pelosi, the DNC, a few tea partiers, and even a stray GOP lawmaker or two have used the word “Nazi” to describe their political opponents lately.

Just curious, but don’t my friends on the left tire of such out of control exaggeration? Calling protestors against a massive expansion of government - the biggest in American history - “racists” and “Nazis” must get awfully tiring as you try and stretch, and stretch, and stretch your justification for doing so beyond the bounds of reason, of logic, and of reality.

Dan Boaz on the “racist” protestors meme picked up by Paul Krugman and others who believe opposition to statism is a sign of racism:

The classical liberal ideas of individualism, individual rights, property rights, “negative liberties,” and limited government date back hundreds, even thousands, of years. They find their roots in the Greek and Hebrew conceptions of the higher law, the Scholastic thinkers, the Levellers’ ideas of self-ownership and natural rights, the political theory of John Locke, the economic analysis of Adam Smith, and the political institutions of the American Founding. To suggest that the case for freedom and limited government — or the application of that theory to contemporary proposals for the expansion of government — must be attributable to racism is uncharitable, ahistorical, thoughtless, and indeed contemptible.

It cannot be the case that every parody of a president who happens to be black is racist. And it is not good for democracy to try to counter every opposing argument with such a blood libel. The good news for advocates of limited government is that our opponents are displaying a striking lack of confidence in the actual arguments for their proposals. If they thought they could win a debate on nationalizing health care, or running trillion-dollar deficits, they wouldn’t need to reach for such smears.

Sorry, people have tuned that sort of nonsense out or don’t believe it any more. There’s such a thing as going to the well once to often with a political ploy and the Democrats with their “racism” and “Nazi” charges against the GOP and the protestors are discovering that now. This issue is too vital to use cheap political tricks like that.

I might say in a similar fashion, that some conservatives - talk radio, anti-health care lobbyists, and others who should know better - are spreading idiotic bull like Palin’s “death panels” all over the place.

As I said before, this monstrosity of a bill is bad enough. Why exaggerate? Why put out false information? It scares the bejeebies out of me and I’m not even listening to you. Surely we can have a debate on this without calling each other Nazis or racists, or trying to scare the old folks with talks of euthanasia, or “death panels.”

In fact, I would say that this is the primary reason that everyone has gone stark, raving mad over health care reform. There is no debate. There is no back and forth. There have been few hearings, less input from opponents, and absolutely no leadership from Obama on this issue.

And what “leadership” we have seen from this pretend president, has been his refusal to consider the fact that there are indeed, alternatives to what he is proposing, that there are other ideas out there that would accomplish as much or more of what he is proposing, and that telling the opposition to shut up is about the absolute, most incompetent, unthinking, radical, idiotic thing I have ever heard a president say in the midst of a political war.

Just a little comparison:

“I think the president welcomes the fact that we are a democracy and people in the United States, unlike Iraq, are free to protest and to make their case known.” (White House statement on anti-war protestors, 2002).

“I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.” (Obama on health care protestors, yesterday).

My views on Bush are known to any who have read this site for a while, but I ask you; who’s the statesman and who’s the political putz?

Demagogues to the left, demagogues to the right, demagogues in the White House, The Hill, and all the way out in Alaska.

The republic appears to gone off the deep end. Pity we have the wrong man in the White House to fix it.

By: Rick Moran at 9:58 am
119 Responses to “PALIN’S OUTRAGEOUS DEMAGOGUERY: WHY NOT? EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT.”
  1. 1
    Anon Said:
    10:57 am 

    I like a lot that you write. I really do. I appreciate your reasoned approach to most issues, and I agree that demagoguery like Palin’s does nothing to move the ball down the field. But you haven’t gone far enough in noting that we are saddled with an amateurish president who cannot right this ship. The fact is that these town hall meetings and various Congressional talk-fests started out with concerned, ordinary people just showing up to ask questions. It was the sneering, vicious contempt for those citizens displayed by their elected officials that ratcheted up the rhetoric. The democrats in Washington are not listening. They will not listen. They refuse to listen. They have absolutely no intention of listening. As you said, the President of the United States has directly told everyone who disagrees with him to just shut up. Morevoer, the only violence at these meetings has been committed by Obama supporters sent to those meetings by the president himself. To the extent that laying blame is instructive, the failure of the democrats — who are controlling ALL of Washington — to represent the people they are being paid to represent has forced those citizens to raise their voices, to yell, to DEMAND that they listen. What else would you have them do? The President and the democrats have said that they will not listen to any opposition to their plan for nationalized health care, yet the majority of Americans oppose it. What is a citizen to do? How is a citizen to be heard? I can’t help but notice that as these meetings have become more contentious and loud, those very citizens are now being heard. I have seen more media interviews of those opposed to this monstrosity of a bill in the past week than in the four or five weeks preceding. The media is largely an echo chamber for democrat party interests. With the volume of opposition turned up as it has been, that chamber has been pierced by opposing voices. I think that’s well worth a few loud town hall meetings.

  2. 2
    Moltenorb Said:
    11:58 am 

    Rick says:

    “Both sides have been flinging the “N” word (”Nazi”) around like a monkey in a zoo tossing his feces at the gawkers. Pelosi, the DNC, a few tea partiers, and even a stray GOP lawmaker or two have used the word “Nazi” to describe their political opponents lately.”

    Ok…I can’t find the Pelosi quote where she uses the word “Nazi” to describe her political opponents…Could you please supply that quote for your readers..

    Thank you.

  3. 3
    Moltenorb Said:
    12:52 pm 

    I’m having trouble finding the DNC “Nazi” quote also..

    Are you talking about DNC and Pelosi quotes that describe the Nazi symbolism on signs that some conservatives are carrying at recent protests??

    Because those signs in question suggest that Obama, his policies, or his administration are comparable to Nazis…So, logically, that would mean that the sign carriers themselves DO NOT support Nazi ideas since they are protesting against what they see as a Nazi administration.

    The only quotes I can find from the DNC and Pelosi are simply pointing out that protesters are carrying those images in an attempt to equate Obama with Nazis somehow.

    I think you’re mistaken if you believe that either the DNC or Pelosi are “describing their political opponents” as Nazis..

    Check out Rush Limbaughs latest for a shining example of that.

    They’re just disgusted by the fact that their political opponents are describing Obama, his policies, or his administration as such.

  4. 4
    retire05 Said:
    1:35 pm 

    Rick seems to be soiling his Hanes with his ability to slam Sarah Palin, once again.

    Can his complaints on Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Newt Gingrich and other conservative pundits be far behind?

    Sometimes it is hard to tell just who Rick thinks is the enemy as he slams shut the door to his fabled “big tent”.

  5. 5
    busboy33 Said:
    2:00 pm 

    “’I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.’ (Obama on health care protestors, yesterday).”

    You’re saying this quote is about the protesters? That they are the ones that “created this mess” that needs to be cleaned up? You SURE he’s not talking about the ecconomic crisis? Republican pols and pundits that in his opinion blew the economy out?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07/obama-tells-economic-critics-way/

    C’mon Rick . . . now you’re just being sloppy.

  6. 6
    Anon43 Said:
    3:56 pm 

    I can’t find a quote where Pelosi used the word “Nazi”, but she did use the word “swastika” when asked a question about the health care protesters at the townhall meetings. You can watch it for yourself:

    It is hard to hear and the fonts are small. This is what was said, “Interviewer: Do you think there’s legitimate grassroot opposition going on here?

    Pelosi: “I think they’re Astroturf… You be the judge. “They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare.”

    The only thing I could find was a photo of one woman with a sign that had a swastika with a circle around it, and a slash through it. It’s obvious to me it meant, “No nazis,” as in the tactics the obamanites are using. There is absolutely no proof any of the protestors support anything attached to naziism. One can see the photo at: http://vocalminority.typepad.com/blog/2009/08/stop-the-presses-ive-found-nancy-pelosis-swastika-pictures.html

    If there was any proof otherwise the dem/lib nutroots would have produced it by now.

    On to the bashing of Palin in the article. You are known by the company (advisers) you keep. One such adviser is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm. The good doctor wrote this:

    “This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just alloca- tion of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future genera- tions, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. ***An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.”***

    So, according to Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, health care advisor to President Obama, the elderly with dementia and the young who have neurological disorders should be sacrificed for the common good. If I was Sarah Palin I would have made the same comments that Rick allluded to as “DEMAGOGUERY”. There is much truth in her statement. Read the full article here: http://www.wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/26/ezekiel-emanuel-deny-coverage-to-elderly-and-disabled-for-the-greater-good.php It’s quite enlightening.

    “Emmanuel recently authored an article in the Lancet describing the various models of non-market health care rationing. Titled “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, it is co-authored with Govind Persad and Alan Wertheimer. In it the authors simply review the pros and cons of the various ways of deciding who gets treated and who doesn’t.” THIS ISN’T RATIONING PER AGE AS ONE FACTOR???

    It gets better. Have you heard of the “the complete lives system”? It is complete with a graph depicting the optimum age group worthy of care. Emanuel and cohorts write, “When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” Read it here:
    http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/health-care-as-social-justice-rahmbos-brother-and-rationing-health-care/

    How about that “science czar(?)” obama appointed, John Holdren. He’s advocated for “a global police force to keep population down.” Read it here: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=104514

    Yep, we ARE known by the company (advisers) we keep. IF any semblance of the many health care bills are passed rest assured it will only be the camel’s nose under the proverbial tent. When the rest of the camel makes its way into the tent it will leave a big pile of ****.

    Palin has/had it more right than the hit job of an article represents.

  7. 7
    glasnost Said:
    3:57 pm 

    Sarah Palin has magically turned a smart and bipartisan portion of the health care bill - incentivizing doctors to talk to senior citizens about setting up living wills every five years or so - into a panel of government bureaucrats starving her special-needs child.

    Until such time as a bill is proposed to outlaw private health insurance and private payment for medical treatment in this country - and I as a partisan liberal don’t support either of those ideas, and neither does anyone I know - even if this fictional panel existed, Sarah Palin could pay for her kid’s needs out of her own da*n pocket, instead of using taxpayer money.

    Conservative arguments against Barack Obama bill are as literally incoherent as the refrain “get your government hands of my Medicare!” They shout about how this bill could introduce rationing of health-care, when in reality such rationing could only possibly include rationing of ***government-paid-for-health-care*** - something which right now hardly exists at all for people under 65.
    They’re afraid they might someday get less of something for free, and this leads them to fight a bill giving them more of it. These are people who lack the basic skills to understand the difference between truth and lies, logic and incoherency.

  8. 8
    Anon43 Said:
    4:07 pm 

    You can see the Pelosi, swastika commentary here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/05/pelosi_town_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html

    Open your eyes, glasnost. He’s surrounded by people who advocate rationing, and have for a long time. Their theories are alive and well. Seek and ye shall find it written in their own words. Perhaps they lied to themselves with their on words.

  9. 9
    Anon43 Said:
    4:08 pm 

    Open your eyes, glasnost. He’s surrounded by people who advocate rationing, and have for a long time. Their theories are alive and well. Seek and ye shall find it written in their own words. Perhaps they lied to themselves with their on words.

  10. 10
    glasnost Said:
    4:13 pm 

    While there are limits to your attempts to understand the world around you, you do at least make an attempt. That’s why you’re one of my favorite conservative bloggers. You may fall for the fantasism that takes a certain degree of careful study to blow up, but you sometimes catch the obvious ones. I’d love to see just one argument against health insurance reform made using evidence and logic, instead of hysteria, misinformation, and bogus slippery slope arguments. You’d be a good candidate for making it. I’d believe that you could avoid some of the obvious idiocies - analogies to a British system utterly unlike current proposals; fantasies about income tax credits that are hopelessly inadequate to pay for severe care needs that hit five figures in days and six in weeks; yapping about deficits for a bill designed to be deficit-neutral over 10 years (long-term cost of GWB’s prescription drug bill: 32 trillion dollars, not a typo); hysteria about government “takeovers” when discussing a public plan that is not in any way subsidized beyond its setup costs (the low income subsidies can be used on any type of insurance, including private insurance) and for which ordinary people on employer insurance won’t even be eligible…

    But I don’t know what you’d have left.

  11. 11
    glasnost Said:
    4:19 pm 

    Anon 43:

    You live in a world of health-care rationing. When your insurance company hands you a list of treatments it will and will not pay for, that’s called “Rationing”. When your insurance companies hands you a list of “in-network” doctors which you are allowed to visit, that’s called “rationing”. When you try and get a treatment that’s actually on the “approved” list, and find that the insurance company refuses to pay for it anyway, that’s called, “being screwed so an insurance exec can report a slightly lower “losses” to Wall Street”.

    Under a government plan, we can at least have reasonable hopes of avoiding the last of these. If you don’t want to deal with government “rationing”, then please feel free to continue going with your private insurance company’s form of rationing. But be so kind as to get out of the way of others who would gladly except government “rationing” - meaning a limited amount of something - as better than what they currently get - which is nothing.

    Bonus question: why do senior citizens love their Medicare rationing so darn much?

  12. 12
    glasnost Said:
    4:23 pm 

    PS: your link re Nancy Pelosi involves her complaining about teabaggers wearing swastikas to rallies because teabaggers were wearing swastikas to rallies.

    She’s the exact equivalent of you people complaining about whoever it was that came up with “BusHitler”.

    Perhaps you should have been tipped off by the title of the video “town_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas”.

    If you can’t tell the difference between complaining about conservatives’ use of Nazi imagery when they use Nazi imagery, and actually calling someone a Nazi for non-nazi reasons, then I can’t help you.

  13. 13
    busboy33 Said:
    5:03 pm 

    @Anon 43:

    So Pelosi said some protesters are carrying swastikas . . . which is true. They have. Here’s an example:
    http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/97283/thumbs/s-FTCOLLINS-large.jpg

    Here’s another pic. It’s at 4:30 of the video:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32337676

    I especially like the fact that it’s a toddler the sign with the swastika is propped up on. Classy.

    What she DIDN’T say in that link is that “people on the other side are Nazis”, which is what Rick claimed, and Moltenorb pointed out nobody can seem to find proof of. Republicans comparing and/or calling Democrats Nazis? examples are a dime a dozen.

    If Reds calls Blues “Nazis” and the Blues say “you’re calling us Nazis”, that’s not quite the same thing as “[b]oth sides have been flinging the ‘N’ word (’Nazi’) around like a monkey in a zoo tossing his feces at the gawkers”, is it?

    Maybe she has called the protesters Nazis . . . she has certainly said some stupid things in the past. But I haven’t heard it. And something tells me with how every statement and action by Dems is being distorted by the Right, if she did it would be on every whack-a-doodle web site across the country.

  14. 14
    grognard Said:
    5:03 pm 

    One spark and the whole thing gets set off. What Osama Bin Laden could not do with a terrorist attack we will do to ourselves, complete self annihilation. You folks have fun at the barricades, it’s getting to look like the 1930s all over again.

  15. 15
    Anon43 Said:
    5:09 pm 

    “You live in a world of health-care rationing.”

    Not yet.

    This is what happens in a REAL state run healthcare:
    system:http://physiciansforreform.org/index.php?id=30

    You become a “negative economic unit.”

    Can the system be improved? Yes, but not by the state. What program is it that the state at any level runs effieiently? Answer: NONE. Medicare costs over 600% of what the original projection was. That’s ‘guv-ment’ for ya’. Where we getting the funds to prop up this boondoggle? We’re headed to bankruptcy as a country now.

    Besides, president zero predicated his “change” in healthcare with the FACT(?) that everyone would be covered more cheaply. Two lies in one sentence. Everybody won’t be covered, and it won’t be cheaper. Covering 50 million more people with the same amount of doctors, how? Of course the 50 million figure is a lie too, but it’s the one zero et al like to throw around. HOKUS POKUS keep your focus.

    I take it his advisers DID lie to themselves.

    Which country is it that has the best health care on planet earth? It can be improved through competition of companies, not this shell game bandied about now. FOLLOW THE PEA UNDER THE SHELL, or perhaps you’re under the spell of–>the self=professed ONE.

    Personally speaking, I want not one bureaucrat from that cesspool that is called D.C. standing between my doctor and me.

    If this proposed system is so great why is it that all congressmen, their staff and both of their families, as well as all federal employess will be exempted? They’ll keep their big, bad, terrible, private insurance. I’d call that “Game, set, match!” You can’t explain that away.

  16. 16
    busboy33 Said:
    5:17 pm 

    welcome back Retire!

    So . . . are you defending the veracity of Palin’s comment, or does the fact that she’s The Red Messiah mean it’s wrong to criticize her regardless of how blindingly moronic her comment may be?

  17. 17
    Mike Said:
    6:14 pm 

    Sarah Palin’s comments may be hyperbolic, but I wonder what kind of health care awaits Palin’s child in say twenty years, assuming President Obama gets his way. Of course, no one actually knows, but I suspect the healthcare landscape will be more favorable without the single-payer health system. President Obama has described how a government insurance option would have driven all private insurance out of existence by this time and evolved into a single-payer system. And President Obama’s advisors have already explained how lives would be valued and resources would be allocated. Palin’s fears may be well founded. You appear upset with how she has freaked out, so to speak, at the first stage of the plan, which of itself does not warrant this outrage. Maybe her so-called over-reaction is not imprudent at all.
    Even now people with special needs are not treated favorably by the health care system. Long-term care — not just medical care — is a problem. Thousands of special needs children are being cared for at home by ageing parents and relatives. I am one of those ageing parents. We live in fear of getting sick, needing hospitalization or even dying. We dare not die. Yes, we do get worked up when a bleaker health care prospect for our children looms on the horizon. Maybe you see a rosier future, but I would cut Sarah Palin some slack.
    One other thing. I would rather see Sarah Palin as President than Barack Obama. She loves the Constitution and she loves America. You have to wonder about Barack Obama. The populace is not persuaded nor are elections won based upon reason. Rhetoric and passion wins over reason every time. Ask President Obama. I believe Sarah Palin knows this too. She electrified John McCain’s campaign. Pay no heed to those who maintain that she hurt his campaign. It is only a shield by those who realize the threat she poses.

  18. 18
    The Conservative Comeback Said:
    6:28 pm 

    So you’re saying a government run health care plan wont involve a bureaucracy which rations care?? Interesting. Delusional, but interesting.

  19. 19
    allen Said:
    6:28 pm 

    Rick, the democrat party is the party of death. Abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, eugenics. That’s not demagoguery, that’s fact.

  20. 20
    K. Allen Said:
    6:31 pm 

    It’s not that far-fetched. Have you seen who The One has in charge as the Science Czar? Ruth Bader Ginsburg has even ascribed to thinking of abortion as getting rid of the “undesireables.” Wake up before it’s too late
    http://zombietime.com/john_holdren_and_harrison_brown/

  21. 21
    tom Said:
    6:31 pm 

    Mr. Rick,

    You sir, obviously haven’t done much reading of some of these proposals floating around or seen the backgrounds of those warped individuals helping to write the “plan”.

    Many people in Germany were told they were going to the shower, remember.

    Don’t worry about Ms. Palin. I think what she said is right on the mark and I believe she’ll be able to stand on her own much better without someone else proving her direction.

    Check out her latest post and maybe it’ll clear things up for you just a bit.

  22. 22
    ThomasD Said:
    6:35 pm 

    Are you talking about the now dead proposal for a Medicare commission to decide treatment options for diseases (not people)?

    Who is the demagogue now?

    Why would medicare be concerning itself with treating diseases unless they affect actual people? But then that would be equivalent to deciding treatment options for people now wouldn’t it? And that approach could lead to government denial of care.

    Which everyone knows could never happen, statist being known for always doing everything that is well and good for everyone who needs anything.

    And just how do you know the issue is officially dead? It has been proposed once and can easily return again, just like every other aspect of the road to single payer. Do you have some special knowledge of exactly what will come to a vote and exactly what will be contained within the mountains of bureaucrat created regulations following enactment of any legislation?

    Didn’t think so.

    So, are you really prepared to argue that fears over nationalized healthcare are unfounded and should not be used for the express political purpose of preventing those fears from ever coming to pass?

    When you trash people who agree with you that the bill is bad you only look like an idiot.

    ed.

  23. 23
    lchp Said:
    6:37 pm 

    Many believe that Down’s baby’s should be aborted and it
    has been suggested that that is why many pro-choice persons do not like Palin. Well, in 20 years the “death panel” might not give you a choice to keep such a child. I understand her reasoning.

  24. 24
    rabair82 Said:
    6:39 pm 

    I’m guessing Palin is referring to SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. Also, how much worse would this be after Obamacare fully destroys private insurance?

  25. 25
    Alaric Said:
    6:41 pm 

    Maybe you should read up on key Whitehouse advisors Ezekiel Emmanuel and John Holdren. It’s not a stretch to see where this administrations beliefs lead.A eugenicist and someone who has his own ideas of how to allocate scarce health care resources in a “Complete Lives System” are either helping shape or maybe even reflecting this Presidents opinion and policy.

  26. 26
    Gloria Steinberg Said:
    6:42 pm 

    You think that “death panels” are ridiculous, eh. Well how about taking a look at these pictures:

    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/

    Babies squashed, crushed and pulled out of their mother’s wombs. That’s death decided by a panel of judges who think that if a baby hasn’t passed through the birth canal it doesn’t exist.

    How far fetched is it to go from the very young to the very old? Sarah in 2012!

  27. 27
    robtr Said:
    6:42 pm 

    Like Moran said, it’s fashionable to bash Sarah Palin. Moran should maybe read the bill first. This is from the far right Washington Post today.

    Ann Althouse also has a reasonable non-Palin Bashing unfashionable take on the same subject that is worth reading. Unless of course being in fashion is more important to you.

    Undue Influence
    The House Bill Skews End-of-Life Counsel
    By Charles Lane
    Saturday, August 8, 2009

    Section 1233, however, addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones. Supporters protest that they’re just trying to facilitate choice — even if patients opt for expensive life-prolonging care. I think they protest too much: If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?

    Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive — money — to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

    Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

  28. 28
    miConservative Said:
    6:47 pm 

    It’s not what’s on the surface, my friend, to which she’s referring. She is smart enough to read between the lines and connect Obama’s statements (slips of the tongue when the truth comes out), his past philosophy, and the stated preference of people he’s chosen as advisors (with a plethora of czars who can do everything behind closed doors with no accountability to the US citizens. This being the case, we can only go by their past statements, which in many cases are quite specific and right along the lines of what Palin suggests). When we all know the public option is a foot-in-the-door for a single-payer system, and when we know Obama has surrounded himself with those who believe they can come up with a value to put on your life to determine your level of care - a value THAT THEY DECIDE. Then yes, with this eye-catching phrase, she has taken the reforms to their logical conclusion. Just because it is not explicitly stated in the legislation proposed now by no means garuntee things in this health care bill to lead quite naturally to her scenario. It’s the old familiar analogy of 2 trains leaving the same station on different tracks. At first, their path may seem barely different, but a hundred miles down the track, they are in 2 totally different places. This health care bill may not be so ’scary’ right now, but it very much has the potential to put us on the wrong track. That is the wisdom in her words - she’s looking ahead.

    On another note, WHY ALL THIS BASHING OF RIGHT ON RIGHT?!? I see it all over the place. The left has no need to pick us apart, because we do it enough ourselves. Sure, we may not be 100% unanimous on all issues…but why waste time attacking our own when there are others out there to focus on with foundational differences in political philosophy. Instead, why not work to put forth what a conservative health care overhall would look like. Articles bashing Palin - from both sides of the aisle - are a dime a dozen. Why waste time adding to the mountains of this and focus instead on ways to present our side…because honestly folks, right now I think very few know what alternative the right is presenting.

  29. 29
    smitty Said:
    6:49 pm 

    Rick,
    Your attention is drawn to Legal Insurrection, which renders your post more than a little sorry.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  30. 30
    Dan Said:
    6:50 pm 

    If you think “death panel” is overboard. YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.
    In every country where national healthcare exists, there is inevitably a government panel that decides based on cost etc whether someone will get care or not. They make life and death decisions by putting people on waiting lists or denying care, hence the DEATH PANEL!
    You flat out lie when you say no one has proposed this.
    Health panels that decide care ARE IN THE BILL!
    Obama is on video saying he is in favor of a single payer system.
    Obama’s czars which he appointed are in favor of govt panels deciding who lives and who dies. IT IS IN THEIR WRITINGS!

    WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

  31. 31
    gopmom Said:
    6:52 pm 

    So, let me ask this. Take the “end of life counseling” to just one logical conclusion. Grammy comes in to her 3rd counseling session in her wheelchair, complaining of constant debilitating pain due to arthritis, which will never go away but simply progress to the point where she is bedridden. She is a widow who lives alone and is afraid of getting hurt or dying and no one finds her. Her doctor explains her options - nursing home or home alone or die sooner. She asks for a way to die. Nothing in HR 3200 and it’s directives about the counseling offer what to do when a patient asks to die. It is not illegal for the doctor to prescribe the pills, though. Have we or have we not just legalized euthanasia the easy way?

    In the same way that you would ask us (and Palin) not to project the future under Obamacare - although he didn’t write HR 3200, some guys in Congress did, right;) - I would ask you to not do the same. If they’re offering the counseling, who decides what they can and can’t say, what they can and can’t advise, what they can and can’t prescribe, etc. These “Boards” and “Committees” HR 3200 creates sound a lot like a death panels to me. Someone has to set the “regulations”.

  32. 32
    George Mikos Said:
    6:52 pm 

    You have no idea what a “Death Panel” is? Then you haven’t been following the debate. Or, using your brain.

    The Dems are vilifying private health insurers in their current ads. Why? Their goal — now almost overtly obvious — is a single payer option which can only be actualized if the private option (ie, private health insurers) disappear.

    Under the single payer health care systems in Canada and UK, health care is rationed. Who loses in such a system? Grandma and Grandpa. “Sorry. We can save your Grandma/pa’s life but it would exceed our budget. My deep regrets in advance”.

    A single payer system by its very nature has a “Death Panel” integral to its innards. To “bend the cost curve”, thousands, or tens of thousands. or hundreds of thousands, or millions of individuals who would have received life-saving care when we had private insurers will not receive such care when we don’t.

    If you disagree with this extrapolative logic, you’re a dismissable ideologue.

  33. 33
    cedarhill Said:
    6:54 pm 

    Lost in the details and nuance again. Congress will pass health care before Thanksgiving. Discussing whether rationed care is controlled by “death panels” or “death squads” or the what the Brits call them in their NHSor even some other term is, well, just real cool punditry. But so what?

    The final bill enacted will be what the House-Senate conference insert, all 1400 pages. Don’t be surprised if there is a provision for “End-Life Determination Assistance Agency, hereinafter refered to as Death Care Panels”.

    But do have fun batting around a ball that isn’t in the game.

  34. 34
    yarrrrr Said:
    6:55 pm 

    NHS failure on Down’s screening kills healthy babies

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/16/health-nhs

  35. 35
    Ray,Calif Said:
    6:58 pm 

    Come on this whole article is demagoguery ? If you don’t like peoples opinions you call them a Neocon or demagoguery? Death panel..nice try…a board would decide who gets the most health care etc…if it looks like a chicken and talks like a chicken ?? Does it have to say I’m a chicken before you believe it? May I suggest you spend some time in England etc..where health care is rationed??

  36. 36
    Anonymous Said:
    6:59 pm 

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html

  37. 37
    cynic4u Said:
    7:02 pm 

    Your title is more valid than your article. Do you think anyone cares about a logical reason why we shouldn’t support Obamacare? If people, including lawmakes, don’t even read the bills, why refer to the contents of the bill in a logical argument? I personally believe everyone should get so outrageous that they will get noticed and talked about by everyone including the leftist media. Do you think that anyone who sits glued to CNN day after day would every take the time to read one of your “logically written blogs”?

  38. 38
    Brad Said:
    7:02 pm 

    Nice post Rick. You have the HA denizens jumping off the cliff. LOL

  39. 39
    Chesley Perlmutter Said:
    7:04 pm 

    It seems that you’ve made a leap by assuming that her statement about the death panel was referring to “end of life counseling”. She made no such connection. She was referring to the panel that would be appointed to decide who would get what benefits and/or treatments (HB 3200, Pg 30, Sect 123)

    Considering the published beliefs of Obama’s own medical advisor, Dr. Ezekial Emanuel, her term “death panel”, is an accurate description. When they make decisions to withhold treatment, death could certainly be the result.

    It looks like to me that in your zest to leap at criticizing what she said, you landed on your face.

  40. 40
    DanK Said:
    7:06 pm 

    Hey now…I thought NOBODY was supposed to talk about her kids?!?!? If Queen Quitter twitters about her downs-boy, when can we expect her and Ziegler to launch into another assault on the MSM for reporting this? Quitter who Twitters…please go to bed.

  41. 41
    Robert Morris Said:
    7:07 pm 

    Sarah Palin should be taken at face value. She extrapolates the Democrat affinity for end of life counseling and sees “death panels”. There is lack of trust in elitist government exhibited here that borders on paranoia.

    Sort of like the country’s founders. Sort of like so many of her fans and anti-big government voters in general.

  42. 42
    smitty Said:
    7:11 pm 

    Rick,
    I hadn’t seen previously your comment over on Legal Insurrection, or I would not have redundantly called your attention to it.
    As for your response, as usual, I fell you’re arguing stylistic trees while missing the substantial forest.
    Possibly you’re correct, and Sarah will fall on her sword.
    Do allow for the possibility, though, that she has a clear grasp of what she’s about, and that her approach, while subject to your vehement attacks, might well carry the day.
    Despite you.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  43. 43
    algebra77 Said:
    7:15 pm 

    As the mother of a special needs child, Sarah Palin is concerned what kind of future her child has. She expressed her opinion on her personal Facebook page. Some people like to hear from her, some people don’t. Her post on Facebook does not make her a demagogue. For me, she sounds more like any mother I know.

    After reading the bill and many articles about the HC changes, I understand that it will be a panel that will decide between the life and the cost.

  44. 44
    ThomasD Said:
    7:18 pm 

    When you trash people who agree with you that the bill is bad you only look like an idiot.

    Where did you ever get the impression I agree with you?

    Why exaggerate? Why put out false information? Is what you accused Palin of doing. Yet the concerns are real. You are the one who has mis-characterized and exaggerated for the express purpose of trashing Palin. No surprise there.

    But nice ad hominem finish. Bravo.

  45. 45
    larry contessa Said:
    7:22 pm 

    Good God man, she is trying to wake up the living dead, which are the voters and are being led to the gas chambers - somebody has to shake them out of the coma that there in - got a better idea ?

  46. 46
    Brian Epps Said:
    7:43 pm 

    Take a pain pill, Rick. You won’t get the lif-saving treatment because you’re too old/disabled/stupid/(insert race here)

    THAT is what will happen. Project ANY single-payer system forward enough and that is what HAS to happen.

  47. 47
    Anon43 Said:
    7:43 pm 

    glasnost Said:
    3:57 pm

    “Until such time as a bill is proposed - and I as a partisan liberal don’t support either of those ideas, and neither does anyone I know - even if this fictional panel existed, Sarah Palin could pay for her kid’s needs out of her own da*n pocket, instead of using taxpayer money.”

    You miss the point, glasnost.

    Of course no bill will be “proposed to outlaw private health insurance and private payment for medical treatment in this country…”

    However, you tell me how a private insurer can compete with a government run plan that never will have to make a profit? IT’S IMPOSSIBLE, is the answer.

    The bill does make for provisions how and if you ever change jobs, or your insurer does go out of business(and they will), etc. that YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO JOIN THE PUBLIC PLAN.

    I could produce more than a couple of quotes where politicos of the Dem/lib variety, including president zero, who say that a single payer system is the goal. The bill you say has not been produced has by fiat been produced. You know it. Sounds like some trolling going on to me. You’ve just about used up the Dem/libs daily talking points.

    Palin’s child’s insurance is paid by taxpayers? What’s the proof? I seriously doubt that, and you can’t prove it. Don’t let facts get in the way of an honest debate, eh? We’ve gone full circle now–>right back to “DEMAGOGUERY”.

  48. 48
    Kate Said:
    7:54 pm 

    Gee, the Wash Post is spewing outrageous demogoguery too, Rick-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

  49. 49
    chicagotrauma Said:
    7:55 pm 

    John “sterilants in the water” Holdren

    Ezekiel Emanuel
    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ends-Of-Human-Life/Ezekiel-J-Emanuel/e/9780674253261

    Cass Sunstein
    http://www.nudges.org/

    Now I wonder why she would be concerned about a “Death Panel”?

  50. 50
    Huntingmoose Said:
    8:04 pm 

    Palin is right on.

    The only thing that she omitted to mention is that this scenario won’t happen immediately

    But this whole bill will lay the groundwork for this evil. It will come in small incremental steps.

    Mandatory Death Counseling for over 65?. This is something that comes straight out of evil nightmare SciFi movies.

    Future alzheimer patients beware. Your quality of life is so low. Would you not want to be terminated?

  51. 51
    Doug Bruce Said:
    8:11 pm 

    PULEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZe

    Moran do not lie.. oh wait that just comes naturally to you.. The left lie as easioly as they draw breath.

    Sarah may have made an error vis -a-vis “a panel”. We all know Obama is supportive of killing babies that survive abortion.. It’s no great leap to see that he’d be ok with offing your parents or grandparents, based on the cost of keeping them alive..

    I’m sure you can rationalize Obama’s way out of that, but it just wont wash.

    It’s interesting how the left calls Palin stupid etc, just like you did, BUT are so afraid of her they, and you are obsessed with her. You are so scared she will run for President… hmmm wonder why?

  52. 52
    tsj017 Said:
    8:26 pm 

    Based on all evidence available right now, Sarah Palin might be the best hope we have for saving this country from the jug-eared Marxist in the White House.

    Maybe there are others, but no one’s jumping out at me. And it looks like Palin wants the job.

    Why does Sarah Palin scare some alleged Republicans? Possibly because she’s a threat to the entrenched interests of both parties (AKA our “ruling class”, AKA 2 Parties 1 Cup)?

    Pawlenty and Romney aren’t going to save anyone.

    Get on board or just sign up with the other side.

  53. 53
    Dennis D Said:
    8:26 pm 

    Dick Durbin also used the Nazi reference claiming the protesters were using ” Brown Shirt Tactics”.

  54. 54
    busboy33 Said:
    8:32 pm 

    I am honestly at a loss at these comments.

    All of the most hyperbolic, rediculous statements made against healthcare reform are. absolutely true. Well, no . . . but they could be. Granted, nothing in the bills or Democratic plans is remotely close to anything claimed here . . . but they could be. Someone could in the future impose death camps, which is the exact same thing as specifically mandating horrible things nobody even implied. That means the plan clearly imposes abominations, right?

    Do any of you realize how utterly insane you sound?

    It’s like the Birthers, part 2. No concern for even the slightest shred of facts or reality. Make a wild false statement. When clear, unambiguous facts are presented completely invalidating it . . . just make another one. Continue three or four times, then go back to the first. For all the pomposity, you all sound like two year olds.

    Actually, I take that back. My two year old nephew is more grounded in reality.

    The Republican Party will not recover from this for a long, long time. If you all honestly thought the Democratic Party was the spawn of Satan, you wouldn’t be giving them the next 10 elections gift wrapped like this.

    Pathetic.

  55. 55
    The Anchoress — A First Things Blog Pinged With:
    8:33 pm 

    [...] Brooks. Springtime for Hitler. Swastikas. JWF: Democrats hold “stealth” meetings Moran: “Who is the statesman and who is the political putz”? Brutally Honest: Constitution…Bill of Rights…Whaa? Gay Patriot: Obama the Unifier It [...]

  56. 56
    Dennis D Said:
    8:34 pm 

    I believe Sarah’s concern lies in the following article authored by Rahm Emanuels brother Dr Ezekiel J. Emanuel as posted in Department of Ethics

    Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions
    Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off, maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext

  57. 57
    Willa C Said:
    8:36 pm 

    I think Palin went way over the top with her “death panel” remark, but on the other hand, we’re ALREADY being told that rationing is a foregone conclusion, and Obama has NOT been reassuring on that score, partly because he is increasingly difficult to believe about anything, and partly because he seems a bit unsure about it all, himself. “You may have to take the pill instead of having the surgery” is not reassuring. People don’t want to hear they can’t get their knees replaced if they’re 59 years old and chubby. So, in this case, I’m going to say the fish stinks from the head down, and Obama is the head. If he could have managed to discuss his programs like a real leader instead of a Caesar with Goon Squad, perhaps the right would not be so hysterical right now.

    Or, they might, since -as I say- the assurance (given by the NY Times among others) that there WILL be rationing should make everyone stop and think real hard before just jumping into the left’s box.

  58. 58
    Dennis D Said:
    8:37 pm 

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext

    I reposted the Link to Dr Emanuels article. Yes Rahms brother. The balance of it is available if you have a Lanncet password.

  59. 59
    Junk Science Skeptic Said:
    8:41 pm 

    With all the BS here, I hardly know where to start shoveling. Palin is, for the moment, a private citizen, and as such, should be held to no higher standard of civility for her public comments than, let’s say, an Air America radio host.

    While I can agree that her description of the “LIVES” concept and geriatric counseling may be a tad colorful, it doesn’t even come close to the over-the-top churlish hate and slander spewed almost daily by sitting Democrat members of Congress for the last eight friggin’ years.

    Did you somehow miss the last eight years?

    Am I to believe the videos I watched almost every night on the news were faked when the Dems were telling seniors that Bush would eliminate THEIR Social Security when he attempted to adjust the benefits and structure for FUTURE generations to fix a broken system that was designed by Dems?

    Did I never hear sitting Dem Congress members spout all sorts of hate about the war, sometimes even going so far as slandering the brave members of the military?

    Yeah, sure, two wrongs don’t make a right, but trying to make an equivalency argument comparing simple ridicule to vile hate is too much of a stretch for any rational mind.

    As to the actual topic of end of life counseling, my opinions are formed by hands on exposure, not by copying talking points from some blog in the leftosphere.

    I’ve been to the emergency room without coverage, I’ve started and switched plans with a pre-existing condition, I’ve dealt with setting up my parents’ living wills and medical directives before losing one of them to debilitating illness, and setting up my own living will and medical directives before age 50, I currently have a brother-in-law in the hospice-care stage of dying without the benefit of having a living will or medical directives.

    So unlike a lot of the regurgitation of pre-written talking points currently going on at all levels, I’m not talking out my butt to score political points.

    If you haven’t already figured it out, I’m a strong proponent of end-of-life planning, but the federal government has no effin’ place being in any way involved with it, and end-of-life is not the time to be doing it.

    I don’t want someone dependent on government reimbursement to be forcibly marketing the latest medical or political fad to me or my family when we are least able to deal with it. These decisions should be made and made known in the cold light of good physical and mental health. If the feds absolutely insist on being creepy enough to butt in, make the discussion a requirement for highschool graduation, not a requirement for starting the medicare coverage that workers have already paid for throughout their lives.

    Personally, I don’t want to be kept alive by artificial means. I’ve made it clear to my doctor, lawyer and family, that if they don’t ensure my wishes are fulfilled, I will come back and haunt every last one of them when I finally do die. But that’s my decision, made without any outside interference. Others may wish to cling on to every last second they can get. More power to ‘em.

    As for all the denials claiming that there is nothing but unicorns and rainbows throughout a 1,000-page bill, BS. No one person has a definitive clue of what absolutely is or isn’t in that bill. Congressmen on both sides of the aisle have publicly admitted this.

    Multiple members of this current administration have written at length about eugenics, they are repeatedly on the record advocating single payer, many are still openly admitting that this is a short path to single payer.

    Yet somehow reasonable citizens are expected to believe that the very people who created and are pushing this plan made a 180 degree ideological shift in the last three months? Others may be ignorant enough to believe that, I’m not.

    As for those who speak of “government-paid-for-health-care” and “getting less of something for free,” government-run healthcare is paid for with taxes taken from the productive members of society.

    The government as an entity has no money of it’s own, the money it uses exists by virtue of the taxpaying citizens who created goods and services, and by the amount of currency we allow it to create on our behalf. The money the government uses belongs to us, not the government, and not to those looking for a free ride.

    Nothing any government delivers to its citizens is “free” in any sense of the word.

    Anybody who can type statements like “government-paid-for-health-care” and “getting less of something for free,” needs to go check out how that works in the Soviet Union.

    Oh, wait, the Soviet Union failed in less than 50 years, I guess it didn’t work.

  60. 60
    Sarah Said:
    8:50 pm 

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html

    That link is to a little oped in the Washington Post, you know that bastion of conservative thinkers? Anyway, that particular editor is a bit concerned about the end-of-life “counseling” sessions outlined in the house bill. It seems that monetary incentives will be offered to doctors to “initiate” these fun little sessions with the elderly, whether they are terminal or not. (Not that that should matter, but I digress.) According to the house bill, these little friendly chats are encouraged as a way to bend the cost curve; in other words, as a way to save some money. In other words, Rick, if old people sign a fun little paper that says DNR, even if they are under some pressure by the well-paid (with federal dollars) doctors, that can save the feds some dough. Are you getting it yet, Rick? How about a scenario: Your mother is 85 years old and it turns out that her kidneys are failing, requiring her to receive dialysis two to four times daily for the rest of her life. Your mom, by the way, has no POA or living will, for the sake of this discussion, since nearly 2/3 of people DO NOT have one. Anyway, while receiving this wonderful news from her doc, she is then steered into a “counseling” session to discuss her “care.” The doctor, who is PAID to promote the cost savings, informs your Mom that shit happens, and she could slip into a coma, snap, and then what? Does she really want to suffer so? Wouldn’t she feel better if she could just make that decision RIGHT NOW and save you and your family the heartache??? So, under emotional duress, she signs bunches of forms, namely DNRs and maybe even a waiver of treatment entirely, because, as the nice doctor explained, dialysis is SO HARD on a person, especially at such an advanced age.

    Or, we could go the more extreme route, which is a distinct possiblity if “containing costs” is so fucking important. In the name of cost containment I (insert bureaucratic title from whatever office here) have decided that your 85 year-old mother is too old to be worth all these many thousands of dollars in treatment. Therefore, we will make her as comfortable as possible in hospice or somewhere *yawn* and that is that. Woo-hoo, look at all that money saved.

    Now, you and I both know that if the federal government is put in charge of health care decision making, and that if the goal of the fed is to contain costs, then A leads directly to B and 2 + 2 = 4. Obviously, I don’t think what she (Palin) said is soooo over the top. And neither should you.

  61. 61
    Sapwolf Said:
    9:25 pm 

    Palin is basically correct. This would bring government in and hasten the move to rationing which in fact would lead to the ‘death panels’ or people who thumbs down things that we currently get even if older.

    The writer seems Frummish, and at a minimum insider. But, I have not seen Moran’s other columns.

  62. 62
    Sapwolf Said:
    9:30 pm 

    Sarah is the only one fighting this at the national level aggressively.

    Where is the GOP? AWOL.

    Isn’t this website supposed to be about freedom?

    I ask because I’m new.

  63. 63
    Harry O Said:
    9:53 pm 

    As I gaze into my crystal ball-

    The House will pass a bill and the Senate, too.

    The important thing to watch may be the provisions in
    the Conference Bill that were in neither the House or
    the Senate versions. That may be where they get us.

  64. 64
    funny man Said:
    10:02 pm 

    What is the big deal with Rick’s column? As far as I understood, he is just saying there is no need to go over the top to fight this bill. What is wrong with that?
    Ohh, my bad! Missed the criticism of Saint Palin. Not allowed.

  65. 65
    Joe Said:
    10:23 pm 

    First of all, let’s remember that these people (liberals) are perfectly comfortable with an industry that butchers a million and a half of our poor, unwanted, and ethnic minorities every single year. Now they’re pushing a bill that promotes and funds more of the same, as well as requiring seniors to listen to a pitch for euthanasia once every five years.

    There may not be panels actually called “death panels” in the bill, but it is hardly demagoguery to envision a gang of government functionaries meeting to decide who lives and who dies. Indeed, that is the intended purpose of this “reform”. You roll your eyes and say “Godwin’s Law”, but the Nazi comparison is apt.

  66. 66
    Horny Toad Said:
    10:28 pm 

    What I find particulariy amusing is that it was OK to spread outright lies about Sarah Palin and her family but now that you think she is spreading miss-information and lies( which I don’t think she is)thats a no-no. Left wingers are dumber than I thought.

  67. 67
    Mayor of Simpleton Said:
    10:32 pm 

    The author writes:

    “I would like to know who wants to turn America into ancient Sparta where the elders would examine all newborns and, if the child was found to be weak or otherwise flawed in their eyes, they would toss the screaming infant over a cliff.”

    Why would the guy who voted “present” on the born-alive bill be against Sparta’s practice?

    He also wouldn’t want his daughters “punished with a baby” either.

    Why is anybody surprised about radical comments to Obama’s radical positions?

  68. 68
    John Rogers Said:
    10:44 pm 

    Gosh, Rick! Aren’t you just all MODERATE and ABOVE IT ALL like the very, very special little elite that you are? Isn’t it wonderful not to have to live in the real world like us working-class slobs and the people that we slobs admire?

  69. 69
    funny man Said:
    10:49 pm 

    Just realized the article is featured at Hot Air. That explains it. Yep, we as conservatives have to rally behind Palin! What a bright mind, what stamina. Our last hope for America. I’m as an elitist conservative am awed and scared by her intellectual firepower and how she understands and defends rural fly over country versus degenerate urban dwellers.

  70. 70
    Surabaya Stew Said:
    11:36 pm 

    No wonder Obama isn’t taking charge of the health care reform debate; why would he want to tar himself with this kind of madness? I previously thought that Obama’s lackluster presser on his health care plan stemmed from his disinterest in the subject, but perhaps he was being far more clever than everybody else.

    One of the best way to win a debate is to demonize your opponent, and this works even better if the demonization is self-inflicted. Thanks to all the videos of these townhall cluster-fucks, every media outlet and DNC fundraiser will have enough gas to power 1000’s of Conserative hit-pieces! Even if health care reform fails to pass this year, the President and every Democratic congressperson will have a big new stick to beat the GOP with in the 2010 election cycle.

    Palin underestimates Obama at her own peril…

  71. 71
    cranston Said:
    12:39 am 

    I would urge everyone to read this post on the aspects of the House bill (and its’ proponents and their histories) discussed above:

    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-american-can-ever-say-they-didnt.html

    I can not recommend this site strongly enough.

  72. 72
    Jim Padgett Said:
    1:23 am 

    “…services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.” Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, January 2009.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2809%2960137-9/fulltext#article_upsell

    If there is not a “Death Panel” then what is this guys job? Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm’s brother, tapped for White House health care policy advisor spot.

  73. 73
    Gary Said:
    2:09 am 

    I must admit, this is my first time here, came from a link at Hot Air, so forgive me.

    Is this a left wing lunatic fringe hate site, or some moronic moderate, “squish”, Rockefeller , country club, blue blood, “democrat lite” website that caters to tools like David Frum, Peggy Noonan, Colin Powell, and Kathleen Parker?

    Sarah Palin hit the nail on the head!

    If you guys are liberals, you have the IQ of a potted plant anyway, so who cares, you are incapable of grasping reality.

    If this is a squish site, then you are by for the problem, not the solution.

    You morons, we are at WAR. Obama is destroying this nation at breakneck speed. This neo-Nazi Chicago street thug is using Hitler’s playbook. Go learn some 1930’s German history and you’ll see history is repeating itself.

    This worthless little dictator wannabe just sicked his thug union friends from ACORN/SEIU on a bunch of unarmed American citizens nation wide. These thugs have beat up honest Americans around country.

    Before he built up his Gestapo, Hitler relied on the labor union thugs to do his dirty work as well.

    OPEN YOUR EYES!

    You ignorant squishes, you can’t be “nice” or “play fair” with these people. Obama is a Chicago street thug well versed in Saul Alinsky’s tactics, as well as Adolf Hitler’s.

    He is a Statist who hates America, and everything about it. He has pissed all over the Constitution before your very eyes. He has said in speeches before and after the election that he wants to fundamentally change America.

    He wants to build a communist state. A centrally planned monstrosity that will extinguish all liberty and freedom, and this friggin’ health care bill is the ticket. It is nothing less than a complete and total usurpation of our Constitution.

    If you can’t understand that, fold up shop and get out of the way of Patriots like Sarah Palin!

    Sarah Palin is a no nonsense leader that doesn’t mince words. This is a woman that took down the entire Alaska Republican party over corruption.

    Do you really think she is going to play nice with these buffoons in Washington?

    She just kicked Obama in the nuts, which is what everyone should be doing if they care about this nation. We can stop this moron cold, completely end his effectiveness, if we FIGHT.

    A bunch of goddamn squishes ain’t gonna get it done!

    Here, read some real analysis on what the next President of the United States (Sarah Palin) said, and what the health care bill is all about, as well as what Dr Mengele, I mean Dr Emanuel, is all about!

    http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/sarah-palin-slaps-down-barack-obama-hard-on-his-government-take-over-of-health-care-and-issues-a-call-to-action-we-must-all-answer/

  74. 74
    Ed Wallis Said:
    4:49 am 

    Palin’s words were NOT “demagoguery.”

    If you want to read more about some of the darker aspects of the matter:

    http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3815/pub_detail.asp

  75. 75
    Dan Petre Said:
    5:00 am 

    I don’t think that the writer of this article is very up on this issue. If he was he would know exactly what Palin is talking about. Rahm Emmanuel’s brother is a doctor and is now an advisor on Health care. He wrote an article about the PROBLEM of the elderly and even mentally challenged people cause in the health care system because they take services and do not “CONTRIBUTE” to society. We all already know that BEAUROCRATS will be making decisions on who to ration care to. Obama even said it at a town hall to a woman whose 100 year old mother would probably get a pain pill rather than the pacemaker she needed. Where have you been. She is right no target and you need to read a bit more. Go read more from David Frum.

  76. 76
    Ohio Granny Said:
    5:43 am 

    You know Rick, you seem to have a knee jerk reaction to Mrs. Palin’s words that are not too far removed for the reaction of someone from MSNBC. Did you read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html. I mean, when the Washington Post liberals get it, why is it so hard for right of center writers to put brain in gear before typing? You post reminds me of a great knickknack I saw, Don’t Blog When Drunk.
    Frankly, I’m amazed you where able to spew without leaving the caps lock on.

  77. 77
    caseoftheblues Said:
    6:07 am 

    OK what don’t you Dems/Socialisit understand…it is NOT that hard of a concept and it is being played out in EVERY single country in the world that has government/socialized healthcare every single day of the week……you have a limited amount of resources…money, drugs, doctors, beds, etc and a huge infux of people demanding all that FREE care…so you have to start limiting access, services, drugs, institute waits etc…at least 3 of Obamas cloest advisors openly admit that certain populations should get lesser to no care, they are the elderly and those who are incapable of contributing fully as citizens (which I interpet as most of Obamas supporters…but that is another post) which means the cognitively impaired and or disabled. It is right there in their books and articles in the Lancet etc. Could one of you…any of you answer if the bill/bills have ALL been shown to INCREASE US medical costs not decrease, that kind of throws the argument for “this is unsustanable we must reduce costs” things out the window…..AND it establishes 52 government agencies that will be involved in your medical decsions so that throws out the improved care and access…I myself would rather have 1 insurance agency that I can fire/leave in between me and my doctor as opposed to 52 government agencies that have NO accountablility and that I have no power and no legal recourse to do anything about. As for the Choice thing…if they want to increase choice why so many provisions that make it impossible or illegal for me to get private insurance and that seem to be written to keep forcing me into a Govenment Plan…that is basically Medicaid???? So increased costs, less quality, less choice…what the f#@k???

  78. 78
    Sal Said:
    6:10 am 

    Tyrants rise to power because people think that “no one could be that evil” or “that could not happen here”. Obama’s quote about the women getting a pain killer rather than a pacemaker should tell you all you need to know about Obama’s ambitons.

    On the bill itself, Rick, it is obvious you have not read it at all. Besides the death panels are medical boards being set up to evaluate cost-effective treatments and determine which treatments are and are not viable. With private insurance being no longer allowed or sustainable (yes, you can keep your insurance, but you can’t then change insurance UNLESS that new insurance plan meets the governments guidelines), the inevitable need to cut costs is going to adversely affect human lives. Look at Oregon, where a woman was denied Chemotherapy and instead offered Euthenasia.

    Think of Obama’s press-conference quote about tonsils, and apply it to serious diseases. Once we start getting away from caring for the patient and instead treat statistics, it leads to a devaluation of human life. We are already partially on that course with the insurance companies. This plan will lead to a single payer system with no options.

    Rick, you are delusional and ignorant of the facts on this bill. I’ve always enjoyed reading your columns for an alternative “right-wing” viewpoint, but lately your usually thoughtful and informed posts have turned to long-winded diatribes without fact or substance.

  79. 79
    Ed Wallis Said:
    6:44 am 

    Other opposing thoughts:

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/inconvenient-truth-about-death-panel.html

  80. 80
    Susan Said:
    6:48 am 

    Obama made it clear during the campaign that he believed in Redistribution of Wealth (Socialism.) Palin was the only one who had the guts and lack of obediance to Political Correctness to dispense with the customary namby pamby “politician talk” and present the cold hard reality of Obama. She called him a Socialist. Of course she got lambasted by the media for daring to question their sacred Naked Emperor….and we were all reassured by the Media and, by Obama himself (who voted 100% for the extreme left on every issue) that he was a “Centrist.” And who turned out to be telling the truth? Was it smooth talkin’ Barry and the patronizing Media…or was it Palin? Indeed…everything that she said would happen under an Obama Administration has HAPPENED. As for healthcare, I agree that we need more debate and information…but we aren’t going to get it from the White House with their phoney, staged Town Hall meetings and we aren’t going to get it from the State-Run media.

    Through the smoke and mirrors, fog and darkness of Obama double-speak…and the media bias…the only voice that has been honest has been Sarah’s.

  81. 81
    Right Wing Nut House » LEARNING NEW THINGS CAN BE FUN Pinged With:
    6:55 am 

    [...] WALLO WORLD WIDE AWAKES WIZBANG WUZZADEM ZERO POINT BLOG LEARNING NEW THINGS CAN BE FUN PALIN’S OUTRAGEOUS DEMAGOGUERY: WHY NOT? EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT. VIOLENCE AT TOWN HALLS PREDICTABLE AND DISTURBING ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS TO MAKE OBAMA’S [...]

  82. 82
    syn Said:
    6:57 am 

    Obama’s administration already has a health care panel in place determining what health care is valid and who is valid to receive such health care (by the way, fat people are invalid); since there is a panel determining what is health care and who receives it why would anyone deny Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel’s panel of death?

    I know this because a friend’s friend sits on such panel, is European and even she is disturbed with some of the stuff the panel is formulating; anecdotal yes, however may I add history has shown time and again that Statists must commit to creepy things in order to create their Utopian dream.

    Now why would any American, especially fat people who are already being determined invalid, give their lives over to Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel?

    Mr. Moran, if Obamacare is passed do not whine when they stamp on your forehead “DENIED HEALTH CARE” because your weight is inappropriate.

    If you think about it, denying fat people health care because they are fat is a death sentence for fat people.

    In any case, if Obamacare does pass I am moving Peru or Mexico since this is where American hospitals and doctors will move to set up shop; my sister’s husband is a doctor, all his peers are making plans just in case.

  83. 83
    grognard Said:
    6:59 am 

    Oh this just gets weirder by the minute. Squshies! Moderates! Put on your tinfoil hats we are at war! Sounds like a Star Wars movie.

    Princess Sarah: What is that up ahead Obie Wan Limbaugh, a moon?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: That’s no moon Princess Sarah! That’s the “Death Panel”!

    Princess Sarah: OMG! OMG! Darth Obama created a Death Panel, where did he get a building certificate for something like that?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: He doesn’t have a certificate. Darth Obama never showed anyone his certificate!

    Princess Sarah: OMG! OMG! What do we do?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: We will shout at it! Shout at it until it falls apart!

    This is the movement of that great intellect Wm. F. Buckley? This is the counterweight to Liberalism? First birth certificates and now “death panels”? The Liberals have been handed the next election on a silver platter if this is what you get from the Conservative side. The sad thing is that even if the movement produced someone with the stature of Buckley they would get nowhere with people like Gary shouting them down.

  84. 84
    grognard Said:
    6:59 am 

    Oh this just gets weirder by the minute. Squshies! Moderates! Put on your tinfoil hats we are at war! Sounds like a Star Wars movie.

    Princess Sarah: What is that up ahead Obie Wan Limbaugh, a moon?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: That’s no moon Princess Sarah! That’s the “Death Panel”!

    Princess Sarah: OMG! OMG! Darth Obama created a Death Panel, where did he get a building certificate for something like that?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: He doesn’t have a certificate. Darth Obama never showed anyone his certificate!

    Princess Sarah: OMG! OMG! What do we do?

    Obie Wan Limbaugh: We will shout at it! Shout at it until it falls apart!

    This is the movement of that great intellect Wm. F. Buckley? This is the counterweight to Liberalism? First birth certificates and now “death panels”? The Liberals have been handed the next election on a silver platter if this is what you get from the Conservative side. The sad thing is that even if the movement produced someone with the stature of Buckley they would get nowhere with people like Gary shouting them down.

  85. 85
    prospero Said:
    7:01 am 

    It is obviously prudent to expect the worst of the Left, since they have long term plans, lie all the time, and if they win on health care in particular there will be no going back. Go back 10 or 15 years and see what they were saying about gay marriage–don’t be paranoid, no one I know would ever support anything so silly! Now, we’re a couple of steps away from considering criticism of gay marriage “hate speech.” Assume they want to get their foot in the door right now, and then think about about they will do once they get their foot in, once they get the door open, once they are fully inside, etc. Base these assumptions not on what they write in this bill or in their party platforms or what they say in their campaign speeches–rather, look at what their “ideas” people have been saying for the few decades about issues of health care, insurance and pharmaceutical companies, life, euthanasia, population, etc. A majority of Americans ignored all this in electing Barack Obama; now that he has unveiled his plans and contempt for those who have elected him, it’s only reasonable to bend the twig in the other direction, and intensify scrutiny of all signs of his likely intentions–past statements, associates, beliefs circulating among the leftist circles he has spent his time in, etc. If you do all this, I don’t think you will find Palin’s statements to be unreasonable.

  86. 86
    Andy B Said:
    7:02 am 

    Rick–You are one of the go-to guys when commentary is a must on all things politics. I read American Thinker everyday. I have to point out, however, that I’ve finally pinpointed the disconnect between people who write, commentate, and report news, from that of your average everyday American. There seems to be an unconscious, unwritten standard of conduct that nobody has agreed to but which to everybody knows it. It’s an–I know my colleagues will find this unacceptable and so must I–etiquette. I know you don’t mean this as a slight at we uneducated boobs. But it comes across as such when you take 1000 words to explain why Sarah Palin shouldn’t use two words. This is perhaps the result of political correctness. But still, I hope you see absurdity in your analysis. I have a better idea. Lets put it up to a vote with average Americans. I know. I don’t have to read your writing. But I am trying to get through to you to point out this disconnect with average people. Not to mention there are a handful of writers who, if they aren’t embarrassed of Sarah Palin, never miss an opportunity to take a swipe her and by extension average Americans. Anyway, I really admire your work and hope God will Bless you.

  87. 87
    syn Said:
    7:03 am 

    Gee Grognard

    Are you unaware of the fact that during the primaries it was a life-long Democrat Clintonite lawyer out of PA who brought Obama’s birth certificate before the courts?

  88. 88
    yoyo Said:
    7:08 am 

    Jeebus h christ are you people soo bloody stupid? I have lived in one of the MAJORITY of civilised countries with a government health system and it works! We have a mixture of private companies underpined by a government safety net. There is much less rationing than in your system, if you need an expensive treatment you get it. However if the generic drug is as good as a branded drug, the company has to prove an increased benefit to get subsidy. It is still sold but you will have to pay the difference unless you are a pensioner or poor. That is the only rationing, wow scary stuff. Any moron who listens to Palin for their advice on policy deserves what they get. Go ahead continue to provide the worst quality of life for some of the greatest cost. If palin really cared about babies as more than just political props she would put some energy into proposing a solution to your huge maternal and child death rate.

  89. 89
    antiDave Said:
    7:17 am 

    the dems have said numerous times they want to eliminate the insurance companies. You guys need to follow them more closely. If you seriously think this isn’t about more control, you don’t want to.

    true, everything is rationed, starting with my pay.

    my philosophy is individual empowerment, not government. Besides, i would rather have to sue any big company over the government anytime. How about you?

  90. 90
    grognard Said:
    7:19 am 

    Don’t worry syn, I’ve got my tinfoil hat back on and am listening to Limbaugh. I feel much calmer now and am back in my happy place. Yes Darth Clinton was evil, very evil.

  91. 91
    syn Said:
    7:27 am 

    “Isn’t this website supposed to be about freedom?”

    I came here several years ago to discover that it is actually is an insta-america site sitting fat-shiny-happy in the middle of the sofa pretending to above both sides while refusing to take a stand on anything which may be deemed uncool.

    This is the insta-america site where lives a billion mercury bulbs believing they will stop Islamic-fascists from killing Americans while at the same time believe injecting lots of embryonic stems cells will keep them youthfully fat and happy watching their friend’s daughter on the porn channel be screwed by five guys while a pogo stick is shove up her anal cavity.

  92. 92
    syn Said:
    7:31 am 

    Grognard

    Darling, you are as weak as your pinky-sized prick which you may be able to see under all your layers of heavy-duty fat.

  93. 93
    syn Said:
    7:33 am 

    I have to leave again, I find wimpy, dickless insta-america men quite tedious and boring.

  94. 94
    grognard Said:
    7:54 am 

    syn, good by, it was so nice meeting you, by the way you wont be so preoccupied with dicks if you keep your hat on.

  95. 95
    glasnost Said:
    8:05 am 

    There’s no way I’m going to read all of this baloney, but just to shoot down some of the most obvious foolishness and establish some rules for debate:

    #1. We’re debating a bill (well, three of them: HELP, Finance, and the House Combo) It has words in it. Specific ones. To make specific changes to health insurance regulation. What your psychic powers lead you to see in the minds of Obama and his advisors. Doesn’t. Mean. Shit.

    Now, to reply to a representative collection of comments:

    you have a limited amount of resources…money, drugs, doctors, beds, etc and a huge infux of people demanding all that FREE care…so you have to start limiting access, services, drugs, institute waits etc

    “…services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.” Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, January 2009.

    There may not be panels actually called “death panels” in the bill, but it is hardly demagoguery to envision a gang of government functionaries meeting to decide who lives and who dies. Indeed, that is the intended purpose of this “reform”

    The Dems are vilifying private health insurers in their current ads. Why? Their goal — now almost overtly obvious — is a single payer option which can only be actualized if the private option (ie, private health insurers) disappear.

    Goddamn, you fools.

    #1. As in my first comments - the only rationing that the government could concievably implement would be among the CARE IT INTENDS TO START PAYING FOR.
    You know how much government-subsidized care you get right now? Big fat nothing. So, you’re complaining that your increase from nothing will be less than infinity. That’s insane. And asinine.

    #2. If the government ever “rationed” care by denying you coverage for something you thought you needed, GO OUT AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!! OR MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR IT!!

    Nothing in any of these bills eliminates private insurance - which, you may have noticed, sucks. But if you want the suck, it’s yours. Have a blast. All this BS about the private market going away is a steaming pile of manipulative propaganda. Private insurance and drug companies are selling that message to right-wing politicians and activist groups, who are pushing that fear message to you - because they’re mercenaries. And you’re eating it up. Because you’re too dumb to know better. Private insurance companies don’t want to have to stop fucking you over. They don’t want government competition. But they’re not going to dissapear as a result anymore than the Postal Service made FedEx “dissapear”. They’re just going to have to get better.

    PS: You can get private health insurance, and private medical care, in Canada. As you can in most systems in Europe. You just don’t get it for free. There’s your “rationing” - less stuff for “free” - meaning, at the low costs made available by the government.

    God, wake up.

    Under the single payer health care systems in Canada and UK, health care is rationed. Who loses in such a system? Grandma and Grandpa. “Sorry. We can save your Grandma/pa’s life but it would exceed our budget. My deep regrets in advance”.

    See, you don’t have anything called “evidence” for this sort of BS. You have only your fevered imagination and the rants of idiots. In order for this to be a legit claim, you need to find… wait for it… something in the actual bills being debated - that would actually empower government bureaucrats… to make decisions about **anything**.

  96. 96
    Jack Okie Said:
    8:22 am 

    Rick, you never disappoint: I can’t remember reading anything from you that wasn’t disengenuous and full of cherry-picked points.

    Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (Rahm’s brother) is a key Obama health care policy advisor. This link shows that Dr. Emanuel has advocated rationing based on the “complete life” principle, where the young and old are disfavored for treatment.

    You are the demagogue, and why people continue to let you get away with calling yourself a conservative is beyond understanding.

  97. 97
    Jack Okie Said:
    8:22 am 

    Oops, forgot the link:

    http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=16033

  98. 98
    Quote of the Day | The League of Ordinary Gentlemen Pinged With:
    8:33 am 

    [...] Rick Moran, on the demagoging of the health care debate by both sides: “We have entered a phase in the “debate” over health care where the two sides can’t lie enough about the other’s motives, intentions, and ancestry. One would think that resurrecting Winston Churchill was in order, there are so many Nazis to fight. Both sides have been flinging the “N” word (”Nazi”) around like a monkey in a zoo tossing his feces at the gawkers. Pelosi, the DNC, a few tea partiers, and even a stray GOP lawmaker or two have used the word “Nazi” to describe their political opponents lately.” [...]

  99. 99
    cranston Said:
    9:15 am 

    Rick -

    I just read your comment at legal insurrection and would again urge you (and everyone else) to read:
    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-american-can-ever-say-they-didnt.html; this will tell you much about the bill, who wrote it, and what it means.

  100. 100
    AlexD Said:
    9:33 am 

    The last time I’ve been here this idiot was assaulting Rush. Keep up a great work, dude. Does Left even have those who are nominally on their side but are always eager to attack them for whatever points they deem “unfair”. I sure hope they do.

  101. 101
    Tommy John Said:
    9:53 am 

    “Sorry, but you’re a little out of the loop up there in Mooseland. The proposal was rejected within hours of the agreement.”

    Typical childish remark from a leftist moron. Here is a fact…99.9% of everything “taken out” of the bill by committee, etc. will be put back in by the Mark-up committee before it is voted on. Those that do not make it in this bill will be incrementally added via other legislation over the next couple of years.

    Study your American Congressional history and you will see how the Party’s eventually get what they want regardless.

    The link is from a story about an agreement between blue dogs and the white house. Within hours of that agreement, the progressive caucus rejected it. They want an “outside agency” not the Medicare Commission to determine treatment options.

    If it goes back in the bill, the liberals will vote against it and kill it.

    Next time, read the post before making yourself look even more an idiot than you obviously are.

    ed.

  102. 102
    funny man Said:
    10:51 am 

    Rick is a conservative writer who believes in rational thought. I also think that is the only way back to winning elections. I also happen to believe David Brooks has a better grasp on politics than Sarah Palin. I guess my bad.

  103. 103
    ModDem Said:
    11:22 am 

    I like this site because Rick makes good rational points. And even if I disagree with them the tone is civil and not full of heated rhetoric and lies thrown out there for political gain.
    But what I like EVEN MORE is reading the angry comments by right wingers who think that a rational intelligent approach somehow equivalent with a Liberal or Leftist view. And it is especially funny because - indeed - if being rational IS equivalent to being Liberal or Left then that is not actually a bad thing. The opposite is being irrational and dumb. Do right wingers actually want to be labeled irrational and dumb?
    I’ve read this blog enough to know Rick is not a Liberal Democrat by any stretch. But he is smart and takes a rational approach to each subject. The Republican party could learn something from him. But instead many want to follow Sarah Palin who uses completely false emotionally charged talking points that appeal to the lowest common denominator.

  104. 104
    Dennis D Said:
    11:48 am 

    glasnost
    Apparently you have not been on this planet long enough to realize that ” Nothing is Free”. This is a basic concept that never fails. Now instead of your ignorant attempts to question others intelligence try debating the issues.

  105. 105
    Do you think Sarah Palin stepped in a big doggie pie with her “death panel” comment? Pinged With:
    12:14 pm 

    [...] Do you think Sarah Palin stepped in a big doggie pie with her “death panel” comment? Posted at August 9, 2009 PALIN’S OUTRAGEOUS DEMAGOGUERY: WHY NOT? EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT. [...]

  106. 106
    Jim Padgett Said:
    12:18 pm 

    Remember, it’s all just abstract, untill of course it’s you on the examining table.

    “Calm down, it’s just the train to O?wi?cim. ALL ABOARD!”

  107. 107
    Jim Padgett Said:
    12:23 pm 

    Sorry ‘Oswiecim’ got lost in the translation. (That’s in Poland)

  108. 108
    funny man Said:
    1:36 pm 

    Jim Padgett,
    ok, so Obama’s healthcare is going to look a little like the German healthcare system. So in your opinion that system is the way to Auschwitz? Just checking.

  109. 109
    PoliBlog: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts » I Have my Doubts (Benen on #Palin) Pinged With:
    3:09 pm 

    [...] that Newt Ginrich (and even Ann Althouse, amongst others–although Right Wing Nuthouse’s Rick Moran takes here to task) have essentially endorsed Palin’s statements, I wouldn’t hold my [...]

  110. 110
    AlexD Said:
    3:19 pm 

    “But what I like EVEN MORE is reading the angry comments by right wingers who think that a rational intelligent approach somehow equivalent with a Liberal or Leftist view. And it is especially funny because - indeed - if being rational IS equivalent to being Liberal or Left then that is not actually a bad thing. The opposite is being irrational and dumb. Do right wingers actually want to be labeled irrational and dumb?”

    “Sorry, but you’re a little out of the loop up there in Mooseland.”

    Is that what you mean by “rational intelligent approach”? Looks more like an emotional attack coming from the Left, thus the comparisons.

    Anyway you hit the nail on the head. Real right-wingers DO NOT want NOT to be labeled “irrational and dumb”. They want to prevent socialism, tyrany, limiting of free speech, inequality before the law etc. These things mean to them quite more than being labeled “irrattional” by their foes. Thus they won’t take a dump (although they may ofcourse disagree) on their side now and then because the rhetoric is too emotional for them. This Rick guy on the other hand is all about avoiding being labeled “irrational and dumb” and if it requires occasional dumping so be it.

    In this particular instance the rhetoric is only marginally over-the-top given Ezekiel Emanuel’s thoughts. But it evidently was too much for this guy’s precious ego. He may be labeled “dumb” you know. Now that’s serious.

    The problem with such guys is you know when they will stab in the back you next, whatever rhetoric they will deem “excessive” and “unfair” next and attack you on that.

    Did referring to “Death Panels” advance the debate on our side or hurt it?

    With people who think like you, evidently not. But then, you’re already convinced - as am I - that this is a horrible proposal for health care reform.

    For others? I don’t see how anyone can rationally say that it helped the cause. And if it did it by scaring people unnecessarily, then it is dishonest, rotten politics and I want no part of it.

    ed.

  111. 111
    Harry Reid, Hiding Behind His Telephone Pinged With:
    5:51 pm 

    [...] because he has no intention of changing his mind, no matter what argument you bring. That is why, contra my friend Rick Moran, it is essential that we who oppose Reid’s not-at-all creeping totalitarianism make it very [...]

  112. 112
    bobwire Said:
    9:22 pm 

    Sarah Palin should pay for the health costs of her child, if she does not have insurance.

    I am not aware of extra costs due to Down’s syndrome, but OK, it’s not my kid and if her husband’s insurance does not cover the child then maybe she should not have walked out of her last job!

    What’s on offer is a public option, understand the word “option”. This will help cover to a great extent all those people you hate that have no insurance. You should be glad that the health care for those types will be rationed. You will then outlive them.

    As Rick Moran has no health insurance, he is taking a gamble. But it’s a gamble he is willing to take. An adult making choices he is. Easier to do when you have no kids, nor apparently pets. How about some pet photos? Show us your humanity.

  113. 113
    Doug King Said:
    11:17 pm 

    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” (Sherlock Homes, A Scandal in Bohemia) Holmes, of course, was talking about our current health care controversy. Pundits are adept at spinning theories in the absence of facts.

    Emotions are running high because Democrats are trying to rush this legislation through as quickly as possible, before the public has time to understand and digest the facts. Even Senator Spector (D-PA) admits to not reading the entire bill due to lack of time. I such circumstances, I think public skepticism and resistance is justified.

    I can understand a negative reactions by folks on either side of this controversy. Lacking real data, they are simply responding to what pundits (elected or unelected) are theorizing or saying.

    There is no excuse, however, for leaders to make irresponsible and inflammatory comments in an effort to whip up their base. I’m disappointed by Palin’s remarks. I’m not surprised by Pelosi’s vacuous comments on swastikas. I agree with Rick that leaders on both sides are behaving badly. However, I lay the greater blame on the Democrat because they are the ones trying to rush the legislation through.

    The public needs and deserves more time – many months — to study, understand, and consider these proposals, which the President and other Democrats admit represents a fundamental and sweeping change to America’s health care system. Any attempt to short-circuit the public’s right to understand and comment on the facts can and should be resisted.

  114. 114
    Anonomaton Said:
    11:20 pm 

    Obamacare will be the death of the elderly and the seriously ill. You are 4 more times likely to die in Britain from prostate cancer and 5 times morel likely to die in Britain than the U.S. with breast cancer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGgliJ92Hf0

  115. 115
    busboy33 Said:
    7:26 am 

    @Anonomaton:

    So . . . your proof for that wild accusation is a FU@KING YOUTUBE VIDEO that starts with “O Fortuna” playing, opens with a comment about Comrade Obama, then fades to a picture of Obama wearing The Joker makeup from The Dark Night?

    Out of curiosity . . . does this shit actually work on you? If I made a whackjob video of Rush or Palin, would you suddenly decide they were evil? All this time Blues were trying to discuss facts and the issues. I gues they just should have hired the director from the “Saw” movies to whip up some PSAs and cow you into submission.

  116. 116
    wheelers_cat Said:
    8:36 am 

    Some are more demagoguey than others, Rick.
    We already have Death Panels….they are just free-market ones called insurance company care-authorization review boards.

  117. 117
    Monday links fiesta « Public Secrets Pinged With:
    2:30 pm 

    [...] firestorm, even on the Right. Rick Moran, normally a level-headed writer, denounced her for outrageous demagoguery. Smitty at The Other McCain, on the other hand, drew his sword to defend Mrs. Palin and denounce [...]

  118. 118
    lionheart Said:
    2:02 pm 

    There is at least some level of vindication for Palin in that the Senate Finance committee today dropped the “death panel” provisions from the Senate bill: http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/breaking-finance-committee-drops-death-panel-provisions-from-senate-bill/

    Pretty effective demagoguery, huh?

  119. 119
    Scrapiron Said:
    10:11 pm 

    Don’t you feel bad that the Senate canned the ‘death panel’ part of President O’Dumbo health care bill today? I should say the puppets health care bill. President O’Dumbo is so stupid he can’t string three words togather when the teleprompter fails. I guess all of the left wingers will enjoy their ‘postal service’ type medical care.

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